ATDI2113

First off id like to express a great deal of thanks in advance to everyone on this forum and to anyone who replies to this thread (this is my very first post). In the past year and a half that ive owned my camaro (which is my first) i have learned so much and put a lot of work into this car. WIthout this community that would not be possible.

So heres the rundown. I was trying to get my distributor to fully seat and i was having trouble getting it to drop the last 1/2-1 inch or so no matter how many times i backed out tried again. Im parked on a slight incline so maybe this is why. I decided to move oil pump drive shaft around and the only thing i had at the moment to do this that was the right length and width was an awl/punch i had used to knock the roll pin out from the bottom of the distributor. Well like a complete dum-dum i somehow managed to drop the awl straight down the distributor hole!

I shined a light down the hole and i THINK that i can see it. Im not sure if it fell down in to the oil pan or not but im leaning towards it not being in there. I did not hear a banging noise really but my oil was not drained. What seems like it happened was it dropped down and then fell over. So what i think im seeing is the awl laying sideways trapped in between the pump shaft and something else i cannot see because of my view, the awl would be laying on the side of the shaft that is towards me. Im standing in front of the car laying across the engine and the side.

I already tried an extending magnet but the damn magnet itself is too wide to fit in between the shaft and the unknown part/wall. I WILL try a fumble fingers either today or tomorrow.

What i would like to know is based on the length and width of the awl (5/32??) and the possibilities that it may have fell over sideways would it be better/easier to remove the oil pan or the intake?
Is it possible for the awl to fall over? Can its size and shape allow it to pass through whatever it needs to pass to get into the oil pan? Also would any of you guys have a good link to something like a picture of an engine thats cut in half? Like to see inside so i could get a better idea of the inside dimensions and what is in the way?

cosmick

Pull the intake first, because it's far easier than dropping the pan when the engine is in the car.

ATDI2113

Yeah i was already leaning towards the intake in part because it was easier and i will most likely do this but id like to have more information for future reference. Cosmick do you think that this is the best option simply because it is easier to remove and maybe easier to look down the hole or do you think that maybe it is not possible for the awl to have found its way to the pan? IS it possible to reach something stuck up near the cam by removing the pan?

Rolling Thunder

I don't have any pictures but its extremely unlikely it made it to the oil pan. The distributor is driven by the cam, and the bottom of the distributor there is the oil pump drive shaft and below that is the oil pump. The awl most likely did not make it past the oil pump drive shaft. I'm surprised you couldn't get it with a magnet? If you can't get it, I would pull the intake.

Rolling Thunder

http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Cars/1975...down%20004.jpg

See the link. When you pull the intake, that is the lifter valley. In the back is the hold the distributor goes through to engage the cam shaft and the oil pump. If it's in the lifter valley, you cannot access it from the bottom. If it fell into the hole for the distributor you might be able to get it after removing the oil pump/drive shaft but you could also just reach it from the top.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

You sir, are in quite a pickle. The first thing I would do is get a magnetic pick up tool. The kind that is made of an old school collapsable antenna, has a neodymium magnet. They are small, yet powerful. While you're at the parts store get some gaskets. Try to get it out, but don't fumble around too much and make the situation worse. If you pull the intake, don't remove the drive for the oil pump if you can help it. You will almost certainly break the plastic collar that retains it on the pump.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Not sure why everybody thinks this is a big deal...

Take a long screwdriver or something and knock it out of the way so it's not up against the oil pump shaft, so the dist will drop down in there.

Then just forget about it, because it will simply lay there until the motor goes to the grave, completely harmless.

ATDI2113

I already tried the collapsing magnet and the actual magnet is too big to fit inbetween the shaft and that wall i was talking about but this is only where i think im seeing the awl.The angle im at,darkness down there,slop in the shaft and the size of the magnet head/magnet sticking to other things is just making it very frustrating.Im gonna look for a smaller one when i pick up the fumble fingers.
Thanks for the pic Rolling Thunder that was perfect. Im hoping its in the lifter valley but... another thing that is bothering me is the length and height of everything. What is the distance from the floor of the lifter valley to the roof of the intake manifold? Im not sure of the exact length of the awl but it was somewhere between 9-12in.It was a common awl off an Oriellys shelf. How about the distance between the underside of the lifter valley floor down to whatever is under the camshaft(oil pan??) It must be greater than than my minimum estimation of the awls length correct? This would allow it enough room to have fallen over. There is a flat surface between the crankshaft and camshaft in this engine? Or could it have fallen down far enough to drop past the camshaft as well as the crank?.Taht far down to the crank is something i have never done before or actually seen done on a car like this so im more confused as to the position (as well as how much open space is there is around any parts down there) of anything between the oil pan and the dizzy hole from the picture.

i apologize for my lack of understanding and length of posts if this annoying to anyone.

Rolling Thunder

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVROLET-35...-/140352599296

See the link above. That is a bare SBC block so you can get a good feel for how things are laid out. One of the photos that shows the bottom of the motor. On the bottom of that photo you can see where the oil filter would go on the right side (as shown). To the left of that is the rear main bearing cap attached with 2 bolts. Just above the bolt on the left hand side there is a hole where the oil pump drive shaft goes through the block to the lifter valley. Its likely your awl is stuck here between the drive shaft and the side of the block.

This distance from the lifter valley to the bottom of the intake i would guess is about 7-9 inches so it could have fallen over there I suppose but again i think more likely its with the oil pump drive shaft/

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

If it's that long, odds are it didnt go all the way to the pan. A 9" to 1' long piece of steel is not something I would leave floating around in my block, lifter valley or anywhere else. The crank journal is right there and it will probably lay vertical before it drops and lays flat in the pan where "it would do no harm". It is 5" from the lifter valley to the bottom of the hole the dizzy goes in. About 3.5" from the intake to the valley floor. Here's a closer pic of the area in question. Junk block laying around I didnt get rid of yet. don't mind the sawdust.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Around 4".

Look down in there and see where it is. If it's laying flat on the lifter valley, it'll never move, and you can just leave it there. If it's poking down through one of the holes, that's a different matter.

ATDI2113

Thanks guys i appreciate all the information. Ill be looking for a different magnet and that fumble fingers over the weekend so i can take one more crack at fishing it out before i starting tearing into it. Ill be sure to post result

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Use a magnet, any magnet...even the pick-up tool that won't fit, to magnetize a screwdriver. Then use the screwdriver to reach the dropped awl & take it out that way.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

If it's the minimum estimate of 9", it can't be laying in the lifter valley. But, suppose it was. Suppose you are going down a steep decline and hit the brakes, it slides forward and goes through the oil drain hole into the timing gear up front. Not great odds of it happening, but do you want to take that chance? Once again, if it were my engine at stake, I wouldn't.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

the next thing i would do is build a small drop light. using some speaker wire, a 168 peanut bulb & some tape, you can have a light you can push up under the intake.
pull one of the valve covers off & you can see in the valley with no problem.

ATDI2113

good idea for the drop light. if im not mistaken i saw you post on a similar thread about making a drop light

Joe Tag that is a pretty scary thought. I ddidnt reinstall the dizzy or fire it up. Heck im not even gonna push that thing the few feet to get the front in end into the garage. Im in central TX and its over 100 degrees right now and the rest of the week. Thats going to be really fun to work in tomorrow

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

It's not going to be in the valley. It's too long to go in there. It will be in the hole for distributor or in the pan.Unless you missed your guess on length by 5". Push it in the garage and get out of that heat for gods sake. I wouldn't crank the engine though. That large chunk of sawdust by the oil pump drive rod is poitning at the crank counterweight. Foul it in there and crank it and bad things can happen.

jimdutro

iTrader: (1)

Sears carries an assortment of magnets that extend, different lengths and widths that will do the job without pulling the intake. No, I don`t work for Sears.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I once bumped a drill chuck down into my dizzy hole during an attempt to prime the engine. I now dont bother because it's not worth the hassle. I got it out using two magnets. Cant remember which got it, but I had the antenna style magnet and the LED light flex magnet. Both extremely useful. Also as one of the earlier posters mentioned, you can magnetize your screwdrivers and so forth using these very magnets. Pass the magnet over them in one direction to magnetize it, then the other to demagnetize it. Pretty neat. You should be able to get it out but it depends on how it fell in there.

whtltng89

Over the years Ive dropped a cpl things down that hole,but somehow managed to get them out. BUT I would NEVER leave a loose piece of steel floating around in an engine. It might be a pain in the a** to get it out but its way better to remove it than to have a major self destruction happen.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I don't see how this thing could have made it to the oil pan.

-- Joe