brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

I have a 400 based block, just wondering what starter do I get, a LT1 style or a standard GM.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Since the flywheel you'll be using is a 12.8", you MUST MUST MUST MUST get the add'l starter bolt hole ("feature from the future" as far as most 400 blocks are concerned) installed in your block, so you can use a starter for that size wheel.

Since the only stock starters for that size wheel are either the little weenie 305 starter that barely turns a 305, or the LT1 starter, I'd suggest the latter, if you're stuck on stock.

However I heartily recommend a GOOD aftermarket "mini-starter". Much better, altogether in every way, than GM ones. I personally have a CVR one that I bought about 18 - 20 yrs ago when I had a 400 in my car. It's the one with the "dual pattern" feature and based on the Nippondenso motor, which of course will fit both 14" wheels and 12.8" ones, as long as the late-model 12.8" inner bolt hole is there. Without that hole, NO starter will fit. (well actually there is one, exactly ONE, but it's about a $400 solution to a $20 lack of preparation problem, so we won't go there)

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

Im run'n bout 11.3-1 comp. so yea!! im gonna need a mini starter. and it does have the offset bolt holes.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The "offset" bolt holes are for the 14" wheel. Those CANNOT accommodate a 12.8" wheel because with the starter innards moved over closer to the crank to mate with the smaller wheel, the inner bolt would then go RIGHT DIRECTLY THROUGH THE MIDDLE of the starter drive.



Here is a 400 block with the extra hole added for the "feature from the future" wheel and its corresponding starter, both of which didn't even exist during most of the 400's production run.

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

This what I have....

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Pretty much the usual. 14" wheel ONLY.

You're going to HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE TO have the "feature from the future" hole installed; the one circled in my pic.

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

Now are you talking about the fly wheel or the starter...

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I'm talking about the flywheel you're going to be using being 12.8" diameter, and the starter drive needing to be about 5/8" closer to the block so that it will mesh with it, than it would be with the 14" wheel that your block came with and is SOLELY equipped for, and the inner bolt hole (the one closer to the crank) being in such a place that if the starter drive is the right distance from the crank for the (smaller) flywheel size that didn't exist yet when your block was cast, that a bolt installed in that hole would go RIGHT DIRECTLY THROUGH THE MIDDLE of the starter drive for the smaller wheel.

It's not about "starter" or "flywheel" as such, in a vacuum; it's about their effect on BOLT HOLE LOCATION.

Incidentally there were starters (part # 3560, with a cast-iron nose) that use 3 bolt holes, for which some blocks (notably ones from Tonawanda i.e. for trucks) were drilled; the 3rd hole in THAT setup is where the 2 cyan lines in my pic intersect. That hole, being at the same distance from the crank appropriate to the starter for a 14" wheel just like the "offset" hole is, could not be used with a 12.8" wheel even if your block had it. Some big blocks, notably tall-deck 366 and 527, had that. AFAIK no 400s ever came with it. Some 350s might have but I can't recall ever seeing one like that.

Some 400 blocks, ones cast starting in 78 or so, got the late-model bolt hole installed, but there aren't many such. My block, in the pic there, was a 509 from 73 if memory serves.

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

If I remember correctly mine is from '75. (380817).

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That would explain why it only has the bolt pattern for the large flywheel, and therefore MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST have the hole for the small pattern installed into it BEFORE you put it into the car and discover that it is NOT POSSIBLE to install a starter.

Much wiser to have it done beforehand, than to deal with the consequences after making the unwise decision of blowing it off and believing people who tell you what you want to hear but have NEVER done any of this themselves and therefore have NOT THE VAGUEST CLUE what they're talking about.

Fence at the top of the cliff as opposed to ambulance at the bottom.

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

so, in other words the 168 tooth 14" flywheel will NOT work in a T-56. I will have to use a 153 tooth 12.8" flywheel.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That is absolutely correct: all of the "special" swap flywheels for T-56 are 12.8", same as stock ones.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Do you have a T56 yet?

Drill your block for the 153 regardless.

But there are T56s other than 93-97, hence my question.

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

Yes I do, it's out of a 96' Camaro.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Then a 305 third gen starter (not the larger L98 starter) will work.

Pics: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...-question.html

Or the LT1 caprice and Camaro units work.

Basically the 93-97 bell (I have one of anyone is looking) has a smaller starter pocket, preventing use of big, older starters.

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

What about the off-set holes, and I run'n 11.3-1 comp. so I'm sure I should get a mini started.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Keep fighing the offset hole situation and post #2 and you'lll just die tired LOL.

The 88 Vette starter is a mini gear reduction starter that would also work
and sounds cool.

The LT1 starters are permanent-magnet style.

The 1978 stereotype about starters for a high-comp. big-inch small block doesn't apply to those.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The "offset" bolt hole doesn't matter, won't hurt anything. You won't be using it.

Any starter you use that fits the flywheel you must use, requires the other bolt hole.

What don't you understand about this? Why are you not listening? Why do you keep asking the same question but expect that the solution is going to be different the 5th or 6th time you ask? It's not going to change; no matter how many times you ask, you're gonna HAVE TO get the right hole drilled. Nothing else to it. The 100th or the 1000th time you ask, the answer will remain the same: get the hole drilled.

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the help guys, im looking into getting the hole drilled, I was just trying to exhaust all options, my motor is already assembled (oil pan to intake), just a lil hesitant cause I don't want any metal shavings getting in it.