jamon8

iTrader: (3)

more info coming

you dont need hardner

cures fast

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

I have left the two inner fenders that I painted outside in the grass 10 hours after painting and grass clipping are all over it

it gets wet in the morning and then the sun hits it all day

no one has anything to say about this

MD83Z

Are you saying that the reducer makes enamel flexable enough for painting plastic?

trocustoms

iTrader: (1)

What?

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

I have not tried to paint it over plastic
but my firebird has enamel over plastic
just not with the urethane reducer

1piece@atime

iTrader: (1)

Are you asking a question somewhere. You don't have to put hardner in enamel. People used enamel for years before hardners came along. But hardner made for enamel makes it a product that can be easier to work with in a production shop setting. Personally I'm always against mixing products or even brands. Paint companies do a good job of engineering paint to work and they stand behind their product. If you make your own magical mixture and have a problem down the road it's your problem.

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

I dont understand a bit of what u saying on ur first posts but

I AGREE 1000000000000000000% with 1piece@atime

don't know if u took chemistry but that what paint is. u start mixing chemicals and the reaction might not appear right away but keep a close eye in it (with safety goggles)lol

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

I am not the one who came up with it

simply a person who tried it and is formulating results

so far so good

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

here is why its important

if you clear over enamel(which yealds a glosseyer deaper shine) the enamel reducer and the urethane reducer could cause problems

if you could use urethane reducer (which so far I have seen to be true) then you could clear over it with no problems

instead of a 100 dollar gallon of base you could use a 50 dollar gallon of enamel

actually I am using it in implement paint which is made with soybeans

so before you start telling me I am wrong

give me some time to prove my theories

thank you

1piece@atime

iTrader: (1)

Reducers for either type of paint will evaporate over time with the majority of the evaporation happening rather quickly. Enamel takes much longer for the residual thinners or reducers to evaporate than does a catalyzed urethane paint. What you are doing is putting a urethane paint job over an enamel paint job. If I was painting a car that had enamel on it I would strip it down and do it with urethane. If you like nice things it's money well spent.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

urethane is like $80-90 per gallon vs $50 for cheaper enamel. I'd rather use catalyzed urethane with appropriate hardener, reduced properly for the conditions.

urethane clear over it and then wet sand.

-- Joe

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

you know what you guys have all the answers

I am gonna stop posting things on thirdgen

things that are beyond you guys and your books and paint reps

you people are too close minded and I am not gonna be a part of that anymore

screw you guys

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

You need a better attitude.

Nobody said your idea was stupid. People responded with tech.

If you are leaving take care.

-- Joe

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

Being a painter in a bodyshop, I think I get the gist of what you're trying to say here. You're trying to keep the chemical families between enamel and urethane clear the same so when you clear over your enamel you dont get a nasty reaction, i.e. lifting or wrinkling? Regardless, you really need to be spot on with your mixtures everytime, and write them down, i.e. 4 parts enamel to 1 part urethane reducer, and never deviate. If it works, then do it up. Most of all, have fun, nobody would come up with anything new if it werent interesting and fun.

I mean if you screw it up, then it's a great excuse to by yourself an IR DA.

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

sorry joe

I just would appreciate if I was given the time to see if it works

I am in the experimental stages of my hypothesis(really it was not mine)

to be honest with you

if you believe in reverse phycology sp.

then I think you guys are actually motivating me

I just have to release some steam from time to time

I not really done with thirdgen

you guys helped me build the nicest car I have ever owned

for that I owe

just give me some time

those inner fenders are sitting in the elements right now

.....James

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

We know what he is saying. But I'm wondering why go through all of that? To save $40? That is why I said, I'd rather use a urethane base. It's not like it's 5 times more expensive.

Again, not staying it's a stupid idea. Just stating why I'm not doing that. I've used enamel's with just reducer on cheap fleet trucks like a long long time ago. I think black was $18 a gallon then.

-- Joe

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

They still use cheap enamels on fleet rigs. And most places spray it through a Graco sprayer with the pickup tube right in the 5 gal. bucket haha. I did a couple frames on some Internationals, and the single stage was everywhere. I also agree with you though, he'll be happier with his results if he stays with all urethane IMHO. Use a good clear, I like Transtar Euro Classic 7024. 52% solids, easy to cut and buff to an incredible gloss.

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

just wanna say that u can do what ever u want we can't make u not do it.
when u post something here is because u wanna hear opinions specially from those who are in the trade whether u like it or not, at the end ur gonna do whatever pleases u.

but hey if it works for u and u are happy with ur results or findings Greeeat at the end thats all it matters, that u are happy

1piece@atime

iTrader: (1)

You asked!

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

spray something with enamel and then clear

then using the same color use all urethane

the enamel will outshine the urethane by miles

I did not ask

I just let u into my world

also the implement paint I use is 22 dollars a gallon

the clear well I buy pretty good clear

so those of you who want nothing to do with my experiment but to hate on it

the more haters I have the more I know I am on to something

deadbird

If you put clear over anything, the gloss will be that of the clear coat. It doesn't matter if you use $0.99 spray paint for your base color. .

Also, they make a base coat stabilizer additive for enamel paint to use them as an affordable base coat to clear over. The stabilizer will cause the enamel to flash out in 10-20 mins like a urethane base allowing the clear to be applied.

Why is this important ? The same reason you use the same brand chemicals in your paint job. The manufacturer formulated the thinners and chemicals to work together as a total system.

Textbook... certainly. Why ? Because when you use a like system the way it is supposed to be used, you achieve maximum adhesion as a paint system and the paint layers chemically bond to make the strongest paint system it can be .

Do you honestly think DuPont, PPG, BASF, etc have not fully researched the compatibility of chemicals to provide maximum results and durability plus, ease of application ?

It's great you think you neighbors, cousins, aunts, third removed in-law has developed some 'magic elixir' that PPG, DuPont, BASF, etc hasn't already tried and found to be unreliable for a long term (years, not a week in your backyard fending off the lawnmower clippings), stable paint system.

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

tell me more about the enamel stabalizer please

I am still learning

thank you for the support

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

Let's get down to the heart of the problem in this thread. What's the story behind how you write your posts? Do you have something against using punctuation? Maybe if you used periods and question marks, along with a paragraph structure, people would know what you're saying and you'll get responses more to your liking. As it is, I don't know when you're making a statement or asking a question or when one thought ends and another begins.

I'll add a disclaimer. What I said wasn't a personal attack, it was meant to be honest feedback. I can see you were getting frustrated and taking it out on the site as a whole. However, I would expect you to have the same problem if you posted this on any other message board you join.

1piece@atime

iTrader: (1)

I'm a firm believer that two heads are better than one. Sometimes people get a one track mind and need someone else to help them view things differently. I thought you were asking us for feedback on your experiment.

Knowing what I know to be fact and with many years of training and knowledge learned in a bodyshop I think I know a thing or two. You don't have to agree with that statement.
I have to admit I haven't spent any time at all mixing, spraying or experimenting with soybean based tractor paint.

I applaud you for trying something new. I may not agree with your experiment or your testing procedure and I honestly believe your thinking is flawed, but fortunately we live in a world where we can do our own thing and we don't have to agree.

If you want to leave your inner fenders out in the yard for ten years or so then we can talk. I have a urethane paintjob on my T/A that was done in 1999. Bring them by ... we'll compare.

deadbird

I'm not being hard on you for trying new ideas but, when you discredit the years of R&D to make a paint system for some backyard mix... it's a little annoying.

http://www.pivco.net/index.php?main_...roducts_id=225
That is a local supplier of the product.

I've used it a number of times with great success.

I can appreciate trying to 'think outside of the box' but, paint is chemistry. It can be related to cooking. The wrong proportions or, ingrediants can lead to disaster.

Unlike cooking though, paint isn't based on a person to person taste, it is by the book of how the people that made it, works.

Choice of color is the only part that is left to personal taste...