86White_T/A305

I posted a while back about getting proper length ebrake cables for my s60 with lt1 rear brakes. I got them installed,fought with adjusting them under the car but no matter how tight I adjust the cables,the brakes dont hold the car. With the cable disconnected off the caliper on the pass side,I can free hand move that lever and the spring doesnt push it back to its resting position and also the cable can easily slide back off. The driver side caliper takes alot of force to get the cable on as it should but if I understand this correctly..without equal pressure from both calipers applying brakes when I pull the ebrake handle..i would not have enough holding power no matter what. I havent been out in the car much so in the meantime I leave it parked in gear. Im looking to fix this now.Is it safe to assume I need a new pass caliper,if im replacing 1..i will be replacing both as they are used when i got them long ago and rather have 2 fresh pieces for peace of mind.The rear brakes work when Im driving and but I feel the most likely seizing up and weak.

I plan to get braided brake lines to help with firmer line pressure might help but I dont think there is anything else i can adjust to fix this other than new calipers.Thoughts?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Did you adjust the set screw opposite the parking brake lever? If you don't know what I'm talking about, search for thirdgen.org pbr free travel on Google.

If you're going to replace the calipers, don't dilly-dally. The 89-92 PBR calipers aren't available anymore. The 93-97 calipers can't be far behind.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Maybe some help below:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/s...ee+%252Btravel

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/brak...-adjust-2.html

JamesC

86White_T/A305

I havent adjust the st screw or looked for one.I was finding conflicting information that the newer lt1/pbr did not have these adjusters.I will have to check that is there and i can access it.Does anyone know what size allen head is needed?

As per those instructions to adjust it,turning counter clockwise will tighten up the slack but requires 2 people to do this correctly.Im by myself..its would be more leg work but by just adjusting the screw 1/4 turn at a time without pushing the brake pedal by sufficient enough to get the job done with trial and error?

86White_T/A305

*Quick update*

I found the adjustment screws on the calipers after scraping off paint and crud from the previous owner. They are a 3mm allen head for those wondering,but neither of them would budge after trying some heat and some lube. From what i see,they make 0 contact with the metal tab to apply pressure to the pad.I also think the pistons are no evenly moving in the bore. When I apply the brake pedal and try to move the rear wheels..they wont turn by hand.

With that all said..rather than fight with rebuilding them.Im going to order both calipers and call it a day. Maybe hang onto the originals if somebody for some reason wanted a set cheap lol

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Some of the small parts are worth saving off the old calipers, all of the parking brake hardware for example. The bleeder screws if they're in good shape. The rubber bleeder caps. All of the above are generally poor quality aftermarket on most of the rebuilt calipers, or they aren't included at all, and all of the above are not available separately.

86White_T/A305

I just ordered new calipers for a 93-97 from Powerstop.They were are on sale and come powdercoated red. I wont toss out the out calipers until the new ones are on and function 100%. I shouldnt need anything off of them but you never know for sure. The good thing is that my rotors and pads dont look unevenly worn so I wont have a problem reusing the pads and just slapping on new calipers,bleeding them and setting the adjustment screw if its not already preset.

After that I really want to change the runner lines.Just not in the budget all at once right now.

86White_T/A305

For anyone following I like to end my threads subjects and answer how things turnout and not leave anyone hanging. I mentioned for the money and peace of mind that Id rather buy new parts and move on. I choose Powerstop powder coated rear calipers and they just arrived perfectly inline with the BBU braided steel line kit for my ls1 front conversion and the rear rubber lines.The parts look great and Im hoping they were worth the slight increase in price.At this point for my braking system from when i got this car 6yrs ago,everything except for the hardlines will be new from the master,booster,calipers,rotors,pads,ebrake cables. Once completed and bled/adjusted this should solve the weak ebrake and weak line lock issues Im having and firm up the pedal feel a tad more also.

i cant speak on the quality of the PowerStop replacement calipers yet but they do look nice,come ready to go with greased pins but i will put some quality brake grease on them. My biggest appreciation was for the brake lines from BBU. Scott once again makes some nice stuff. I wasnt expecting new banjo bolts,washers,clips,hoseline clamps and new T-fitting for the rear lines at the diff. Shipping for the parts was fast especially me being in Canada being just about a week.

With the weather being shitty out I wont put these parts on outside in the cold for a few days but here are some pics for anyone curious.Should improve the car quite a bit more for the spring/summer months of driving.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Those calipers are a good deal considering they come with everything.

86White_T/A305

So today for a short few hrs i had of decent weather I started tackling the install.In theory it should be a pretty straight forward quick job.But knowing how much this car fights everything done I knew time and luck were not on my side.

However I swapped the front lines with ease and let them gravity bleed,all was well. The rears and whole point of this was to fix my ebrake problem and hopefully improve brake performance with new steel flex lines. I got the passenger side swapped over and everything came apart and went together smoothly.the driverside rear is where the woes came in play. The old stuff came out easy enough.Now I dont think this wouldve done it but I had bolted on the lines to the calipers first torqued down.The new lines are much longer than the original rubber lines on the car so I figured this would make routing them easier and hooking up the hardline should be a breeze. I got it on and thought the fluid coming out was just me gravity bleeding the caliper. When i looked closer the banjo fitting itself was leaking.You would think maybe the banjo bolt simply wasnt tight enought..and when I went to touch the line to see if there was play,it snapped

Given I have a nonstop leak I scrambled to put my original rubber flex line on. By now its coming up on 3hrs in the cold..on my back.I thought about changing the body to axle flex line but decided to wait till tomorrow with more sunlight. Ill email Scott at BBU and maybe he can help me with getting a replacement line asap and send back the one that broke.Aside from that I now have the passenger side caliper functioning with the ebrake..no clue why the driverside does not hold so I might have to take it off and check things move nicely even though i extra greased the sliders and pad grooves. Ill gravity bleed everything again and then try the one man vacuum bleeding with new dot 4 fluid.
Here is the broken earls line

86White_T/A305

Scott is a sly dog lol. Before I knew it he had sent me a replacement line no questions asked and I was offering to buy a new line and send the broken line to him. The weather here hasnt been great anyways to get work done on the car but if all goes well after superbowl sunday and my hangover isnt ridiculous I will change the line monday and bleed the entire system again. then i can focus more on adjusting the calipers for parking brake engagement.So far 1 caliper is applying ebrake and the driver side is not.Im not fully caught up on how it needs to be setup correctly by using the screw on the caliper.Hopefully the caliper isnt defective.Ill post back in a few days.

86White_T/A305

Well..my luck strike again smh. I went to change the 1 line and figure out the hangup on the ebrake. Pulled the caliper off and I spotted the partial reason for the ebrake not applying on the driverside.The rod that pushes on the piston itself had slipped off its tab.Easy fix..great.I pulled off the old rubber flex line.I snugged the new line on the caliper first to make sure I didnt have any odd bends/pressure on the banjo side to avoid it breaking somehow. I went to connect and hardline to the flex line and damnit..noticed i was missing the adapter from the -3an to the flare fitting.

So here I am back to the drawing board. The braided lines are -3an but I want to be sure. I need a -3an to 10mmx1.0 inverted flare correct?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-989538erl/

86White_T/A305

I can almost put a close to this thread. I got all the lines and fitting sorted out.Found some small leaks in the old hardlines and made a patch leading up to the k-member. Bled the system 3 times! My initial bleedng with the vacuum pump didnt yield much as it was just too cold for the nylon hose to seal on the bleeder screw.Once it got warmer out I re-bled and I can say beyong doubt how hard the car brakes.The spongyness in the pedal is gone..and I dont mean slightly improved.Its GONE! The brakes halt me down very well that I feel confident and slowing the car after a full pull on boost.I wouldnt get crazy before just to give myself a buffer to stop in a reasonable fashion.Id panick if I had to really panic brake. My 1 and only complaint still if the parking brake.I will need to play more with adjusting the set screw.

To recap what all is exactly done for my brake setup:
New Front ls1 brake caliperss
ls1 brake swap kit from BBU
Braided flex lines from BBU (front/rear kit)
New lt1 pbr rear calipers from Powerstop
New e-brake cables
New brake booster 3rdgen
New brake master 3rdgen
Ebc yellow pads/rotors front/rear
Hurst Line lok kit

In the video I mentioned how the line lock doesnt quite hold the car.I called hurst to clarify if im using it correctly and they stated to pump the brakes again while I have the button pressed since it has a bypass valve and this should hold me inplace for a proper burnout.I will try this the next warm day.If i can get the ebrake to work normally again id be estatic.Check out the video below as use the cheap 1 man bleeder and then hit the hwy for some fun.

86White_T/A305

Life is bitter sweet. While this pandemic has changed many things for us all.Its given me time to tinker with things out of sheer boredom lol. Though I have never been more happy with the stopping power this setup provides being basically all new.I STILL do not have a properly working ebrake. I give up,Im convince its to do with these remanufactured calipers and swapping them for another pair from Powerstop wont solve my issue. I have purposely adjusted the free play on both calipers with drag on the pads to barely turn free spin while in the air,adjusted the parking brake cable equalizer to a point of about to stretch with just 2-3clicks up on the handbrake lever.I can pull the ebrake and it takes everything i can to get 3 clicks up.Lower the car on the ground and you could still push it on a flat surface from the weight of the car.Calipers just dont apply enough pad pressure is my firm guess.Regretting sending the originals in for cores and shouldve tried having them rebuilt since they worked for parking brake

I see alot of posts about guys not being able to get the pbrs to hold for ebrakes.Seems there isnt any additional fix over the yrs of complaints which sucks.They calipers sure do look nice powdercoated red .

rt66er

iTrader: (2)

I'm in the same boat. Adjusted everything I know how. Still no parking brake. Cable pulls, lever moves at caliper, the pressure is there, just doesn't seem to put enough force on the rotor to do anything.

86White_T/A305

I put in 1 more email to Powerstop and i finally got a response. They are sending me another pair that that will check functionality of ebrake force before shipping out to me a new pair of calipers. But Im not convince this will exactly solve it,im hunting down a pair of used calipers just for backup parts. I think the issue is the lever does not push the pin enough,or the pin length is too short. We will see once i get them.ill take detailed pics to make good comparisons.

rt66er

iTrader: (2)

I went through the "free-travel" procedure (getting those return springs back on was not easy!) and still no joy. Wish now I would have pulled the brake while the return springs were out, as I can push the lever with my hand till it bottoms out and the rotor then won't turn by hand. When I pull the hand brake I can still push the lever at the caliper by hand another 1/8 to 1/4-inch, which then clamps the rotor. I reduced the length of the spring surrounding the cable at the caliper, as it was compressing completely when the hand brake was pulled and limiting lever movement well before getting any clamping force on the rotor. I'm beginning to think the LT (93-97) PBR calipers aren't compatible with the 90-92 self-adjusting hand brake. The self-adjusting mechanism seems to limit the force available prior to overcoming that strong return spring at the caliper. It just doesn't seem capable of getting that last little "oomph" needed to adequately clamp the rotor. I would love to hear of anyone that has done this conversion that was able to get the parking brake to work with the self-adjusting hand brake.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Maybe I'm missing something... But why do you think it has something to do with the self adjuster instead of something simpler and more likely like the wrong brake cables or stretched brake cables?

There's no difference between the 93-97 calipers aside from the fins being removed.

rt66er

iTrader: (2)

The cables are new. Tried the 1434mm cables and they were too short. Switched to the 1460mm cables and they are too long. I fashioned a couple of 3/4-inch "spacers" from steel, which gives them an effective length halfway between the two available cable lengths. I realize the calipers are pretty much the same, but is the hand brake mechanism the same? It seems to run out of travel prior to the lever providing enough pressure on the rotor. Any looser and the cables would not stay in the mid-bracket in the tunnel. I originally made the spacers about 2-inches long and that didn't work. So I made them shorter, but it didn't seem to make any difference.

Still waiting to hear if anyone has actually been able to make this work under the same conditions. I know plenty of folks have made this conversion work (parking brake included) but I have also seen a few threads where people have swapped in the old, non-self adjusting hand brake, too.

86White_T/A305

Strange thing for me is..when i originally swapped in the lt1 10 bolt and the 1 caliper wasnt seized yet..my parking brake worked perfectly fine.I dont have the self adjusting lever so there isnt anything else to blame in my case. When I got my dana s60 it just made sense to put fresh calipers on and have 100% stopping power with new braided lines,new cables.Now I cant park anywhere without being in gear..but I prefer w fully functional ebrake 1st.

Good news..I came home today and a box from powerstop has arrived in extremely fast fashion. I also picked up some junk calipers that i can directly compare parts with and hopefully might shed light as to where things go wrong for soo many with this problem. Im leaning heavily towards rebuilt calipers are slightly off on some parts and there just isnt enough travel being applied to the piston/pad for ebrake..even on fresh pads.

Ill take pics once i open things up side by side.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

That right there is what I'd call a 'red flag'. Perhaps it's trying to tell you something else is up when neither of the stock replacement cables fit correctly.

slowbluw91

Just got my 4th gen swap completed in my 91 with drums. Rear end came out of a 94 Z28, so they are the LT1 style brakes. The E-Brake cables i used were World Parts #177602. The conduit length is 40.75" long.
Only modifications: to re-route the driver side cable between the sway bar and the axle tube (passenger side was tight but fit in the factory location), and i cut the spring on the passenger side between the conduit and the end that attaches to the brake to allow the cable to attach properly to the splitter thing under the tunnel.
If anyone wants pics i can get some next time the car is in the air...

rt66er

iTrader: (2)

That's interesting. Looks like a Canadian part. I wound up shortening my "too-long" cables by 1.75-inches. Worked great for two pulls. After that, the handle pulls all the way up and I get virtually no parking brake. Only thing I can think that it could be is that damn auto adjusting mechanism limiting the cable travel/torque.

slowbluw91

Hmm, interesting. Perhaps there is a way to cross reference the part number i used for you southern guys?
During install, did let out the Auto Adjusting part of the cable, and the spring return to attach the 2 cables. when i put it back together it was adjusted to pretty well the shortest length it can go. when i pull on the ebrake, it is fully engaged at like a 30 degree angle, so there is the full range of motion left to "Self adjust" as the pads/rotors wear in. I do have brand new pads and rotors.

rt66er

iTrader: (2)

Curious about "letting out the auto adjusting part of the cable". Can you elaborate about this procedure?

slowbluw91

In the fully down position the auto adjuster is allowed to move freely, meaning that if is needs to tighten up it will rotate and pull the tension on the cables tighter, when you pull up the cawl engages the teeth on the cam and that is where the clicks come from when you engage the ebrake.
When i installed the cables the first time, i unwound the cable on the cam completely out but i had to reset the adjustment so that it would work properly. But it is easier to install the cables without any tension on the handle side of the cable. To do that, you need to remove your center console, then when you will have access to the ebrake cable mechanism. there will be a claw that engages the teeth on the round part that the cable winds on like a cam. Simply remove the spring that provides the tension on the cable system, and you should be able to move the cable freely to install the rear cables. Once everything is hooked up, re-install the spring and it should operate properly.
hope this makes sense, if not i will have the console out in a few days and can take some pictures.

rt66er

iTrader: (2)

I would really like to see photos; that would be great.

slowbluw91

Okay, give me a few days and ill have it apart. need to replace the clutch

Drew

iTrader: (58)

How did you get this far without ever understanding how the self adjusting brake lever works? With the console out of the way it's a very easy piece of hardware to understand. I've posted photos and explanations how it works before. There's a wheel that connects to the cable, and a spring that tensions that wheel. When the lever is all the way down, the wheel is free to tension. When you lift up on the lever, after the first inch or so of travel the wheel locks in position and starts pulling the cable.

If the spring is removed, you can just grab the cable and pull it out completely with the lever down. If you yank up on the lever too quickly, the mechanism that locks the wheel to the lever doesn't engage fast enough and the lever does nothing. If the spring is weak or disconnected, it won't pull the wheel/cable tight and the cables won't be properly tensioned.





Red arrow is to the spring.
Purple is the wheel/cable.
Yellow is the locking mechanism.

When the lever comes all the way down, the tab on the bracket visible in front of the wheel pushes the locking pawl and releases the wheel from the lever. As the lever comes up, the pawl gets past that tab and locks the wheel.

Pic is date stamped Feb 19th of this year, there's probably a thread from Feb where I posted it before. Might be worth a look. Edit, edit - Here it is - https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/brak...rear-swap.html

And a close-up of the locking pawl/tab robbed from another old thread.

rt66er

iTrader: (2)

I appreciate your taking the time and effort to attempt to help me out here, but I'm still confused as to what I need to actually do to fix this. Do I remove the big spring and pull the cable out to reset? Do I need to pull the console to do this? Believe me, I have studied and researched this to death and I still don't understand how it could work fine one minute and then be screwed up the next.

slowbluw91

If you pulled on the cable underneath the car to install the cables that go to the wheels, chances are you pulled the cable all the way out and it wont engage properly now.. this is what happened to me.
You will 100% need to remove your console (not hard at all) and take a look. it will become immediately clear what you need to do. I got the console out late last night and will try to take some videos of it in action tonight to show how it operates.

rt66er

iTrader: (2)

Cool, thanks.

slowbluw91

not sure how to upload directly but i put a short video on youtube. hopefully this better shows how the mechanism operates. you can see near the end of the video when i remove the tension spring you can operate the cable/wheel by hand and therefore loosen or tighten the slack in the cable.
Hopefully this helps out someone.


OP sorry for jacking your thread!

rt66er

iTrader: (2)

Thank you, that does help!

86White_T/A305

Lol not a problem.The goal is to solve problems. I do plan on adding to this thread once I swap calipers and compared things with the stock set I have sitting here.But I gotta get the motor back in and running, then i ll concentrate a day to fully play with the brakes.

86White_T/A305

Guys I finally got the rears working 100% and the parking brake to hold. Ive been away for sometime and did not get a chance to update this thread but for anyone facing this issue this is what worked in my case....which shouldnt make sense lol. So I did get new calipers..i bought a spare set of oem junk seized calipers for parts. The lever that actuates the pad on the new caliper is not exactly the same shape as oem and the length of the 'plunger' or plastic rod it pushes is also not the same as oem. I swapped over those pieces and this did indeed yield slightly better results. The caliper would hold the car but with a good push..would roll, still not hold on a hill. So then I started playing with the cables and adjusting them once more. With them maxed out I got what i thought was a good hold and couldnt spin the wheel by hand while on the hoist..and on flat ground i would have to push fairly hard but it wouldnt roll away from me. Now i thought..lets try the adjustment screw because there is no other things to adjust. The instructions posted every where mention the freeplay and the measurement to have proper functionality. I ditched that procedure as it hasnt made any difference for me previously. I backed the adjustment screw right out on both sides, tried the hand brake and in 2 clicks was fully LOCKED to the point I thought the cables would snap. I let the car down and backed down halfway of the ramp hoist and tried it again.car wouldnt move! Great..I knew I was onto something, put it back in the air and began to slowly turn the screw in to see when I start loosing tension. the back and forth took awhile to dial in where both calipers were equal clamping force. Then i set out to readjust the cable slack so that the handle wasnt 3 clicks to be fully locked. Backed the main cable postion some and now 5 clicks is fully locked and makes it a smooth transition on the ebrake handle.

What an adventure this has been.There are so many other posts of people having hard time setting lt1 rear brakes up to have good bite. Back the screw all the way out and work your way in, then adjust the cables. Take it for a drive and reinspect the wear pattern of the pad/rotor. The car stops better without pulling to one side. now i need to work on the front and replace the ebc's with something less brake dust/fade.

RJ IROC

I recently swapped an e brake handle mechanism out of a 2002 F-body into my 85. It’s not as straightforward as I would have thought, but it works flawlessly. The tunnel adjuster setup is straight garbage and never quite functioned right. The later setup has a true pivoting equalizer and self adjusting mechanism, which makes a huge difference towards proper function on these brake setups. A few things that this required:

All fourth gens use the same e brake handle and self adjusting mechanism. It is a nice setup that seems to work well. The mechanism is beefier than the stock third gen lever mech. I had to enlarge the mounting holes to make the lever centerline the same as the stock lever. Also had to remove some material that sticks out near the cable hole, as it was rubbing the side and bottom of center console. I had to make some cable mounting brackets for the trans tunnel to locate the cable end from the lever and two cables from the PBR rear calipers. I used the longer cables for a 96 F body with disc brakes.

The instructions for setting free play are misleading. I wasted many hours trying to set it according to the manual. The absolute best way to do it is to remove the calipers all together, remove the big lever return spring (this is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL), and use a c clamp on the piston to simulate it making contact with the rotor with no clearance (sort of how the manual states to take up clearance by applying the brake pedal). Loosening the set screw REDUCES free play. Tightening it INCREASES free play. Set screws on mine were backed out to the point where they weren’t contacting the little clip piece. I fixed this by pulling the spring up another two coils to get it to pull it against the set screw again. You will be able to get the .020” between the lever and bracket shown in the procedure if you eliminate the clearance between the piston and rotor and have the spring removed. Use one finger to move the lever until it stops. Measure gap. Adjust set screw. Do this right and both sides will engage the brake HARD. They will also do so with the lever not having to come up very far.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this information can help anyone having problems with this setup.

RJ IROC

I believe this bottom photo is the .020” after I adjusted the set screw. The one above is contacting the stop.