87irocz350

Hey guys. I need to know if I need to get another battery, altenator, and maybe a Cap.

I have 2 1200w max Kove Armageddons. ANd a AudioBahn 1600w amp. Do you think it'll be a big power surge on the stock electical system? A guy I know has a digital Memphis cap that he is selling for $90. Should I pick that up? I wont know untill I have it all hooked up.

junkyarddog

That stereo alone can potentially pull up to 160 amps. I would consider a dual alternator setup for that system. You may be able to find 200 amp alternators, but there will be disadvantages to those type of windings.

As far as the cap goes, I find it perfectly useless if you have a strong enough electrical system with the right batteries and good wiring.

87irocz350

wow, 160 amps huh?

I've heard of people running two batteries. I'd like to do that. But, How could I keep the battery in the trunk charged? What type of connection would I have to run? I would most likely run a yellow top Optima..I guess.

junkyarddog

Find out who services the ambulances in your area, some of the newer ones have up to 10 batteries. They have electronic isolators to keep them all charged. They may be able to give you leads on who manufactures them, or just look it up on the net.

even with two batteries, how will you sustain power if your alternator doesn't put out at least 200 amps?

I'm confused, is the audiobahn 1600w your only amp?

Is it max power or RMS power?

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

For a 2 battery system most of us run a thick wire like 0 or 00 gauge from the conventional battery positive to the second battery positive connectors. This usually means an interior mounted battery so that's why most people go optima because there dry cells so you can mount them anyway you want without the fear of acid spills and there not suppose to put off the posionous gases like regular wet cell batteries.

Also there's different types of isolators if I'm thinking right. There's the active ones and the passive types. The difference is that the more expensive types are a sensing type charge that the alternator wire hooks up to and they simply sense the voltage rating of your batteries that are hooked up to the isolator and switch the alternator power back and forth. The other type is a more passive one. It's mainly a 12 volt activated toggle. Your 0 gauge from the conventional under the hood hooks up to one post on it the other post is the wire going to your optima battery. There is a small side wire post that gets hooked up to a 12 volt run hot only. That way you can have the batteries seperate when the car is off but when you turn the car on you can have them automatically link or put them on a throw switch.

I agree with Junkyarddog even a 2 battery system with a new OEM type alternator and 2 caps won't probably help you. My amps (2 JBL 1200.1s) have around a 120 draw each and they literally eat my yellow top and conventional battery. Sure it still works but you can't turn it up over 17 volume or so on the HU so it's pretty much worthless.

Upgrading your OEM wires can help also. It's pretty simply you just need a few connectors and some heavy duty wire. Run a new alternator wire from the back to the battery then run a new ground strap wire. Pretty simply and only costs a few bucks. There's a bunch of posts on here about it.

NEEDAZ

I think you MAY be able to get away with the stock alternator (140A) and two batt. System but you will be pushing the alt. I would really look hard at a 170A to 200A alt AND two batteries if you’re going to be pulling 160A.
I like solenoid isolation, the second one fireturd350 talk about. There is just a lot that can go bad on the fancy dancy all in one will do it all and wipe you’re a** electronic ones. A solenoid is just a plane old brut that will get the job done.
If this is just to much all at once run with the stock alt. until it dies (I wouldn’t think this would take to long) and then upgrade. You may get lucky…….

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, I own one a passive isolator. I bought it off Ebay for around 35 bucks. It's ok alot of people talk crap about them cause they say all they do is link up the batteries and it won't effect people unless they play the stereo with the car off. But having the batteries seperate already has saved my butt 2 or 3 times since I can just jump start the front battery with the optima if my front slowly drains itself while it waits in the garage.

87irocz350

Ok. Its (2) Kove Armageddons. 600w Rms. 1200w peak
(1) 1600w AudioBahn Peak.

Well, I wont have a problem throwing on a bigger alt. Its not really a problem. And Having a two battery system would be kinda cool. I have high expections from this system..its cost alot of $$ and I hope it does good.
When I was running one Armageddon I could set off car alarms..just running off my 850w amp. I hope 2 will rock it out.

ScrapMaker

I seriously DOUBT you could draw 160 amps from THAT setup!!! One AMP??? Look at the side of your amp, and look at the little white number on the side of your fuse(s)... an amp with a 1600watt (MAX RATING) will most likely be somewhere around 1000 watts RMS... an amp around there will probably have two (40 amp) fuses... this is 960 watts @ 12 volts... or 1040 watts @ 13 volts... this is the MAXIMUM power this amp can draw. Manufactures ALWAYS overrate their fuses, as would any safe designer. I would go with something like 85%-90% of the total fuse rating.

I use 4gauge wire from my battery to a distribution block, then it goes to two amps (well used to, till they got stolen)... now it goes to one autotek 400-500watts RMS amplfier. It will pound the hell out of my 15's, but NEVER have my lights dimmed, not once!

I do like the idea of a switching power source, so I could play my stereo with the car off, and not worry about draining my main battery.

So I don't think you need a second battery at all. I would go with a bigger altenator (maybe), but only once your old one goes out! I am using a new stock altenator, for about 2 years, no problem. I listen to my subs all the time no issues.

Buy at least a 1.0 farad capacitor, and a 2.0 wouldn't hurt either. They are $70 at Walmart and they have digital readout---they are the same no matter where you buy them besides the connector terminals. This will greatly lengthen your altenator's life, plus it will allow your subs to hit harder than your altenator will potentially allow.

-Steven

ScrapMaker

I also used to have over 1000watts RMS hooked up, with no headlight dimming either...

NEEDAZ

You’re running one amp. OK. In that case, we can though out the 160A number. Get the specs on the amp your getting and find out what it’s Max Current Draw is. Get it from the specs, not by adding up the fuse/fuses.

junkyarddog

Yea, I was confused about that....I wasn't sure if you were talking about amps or speakers.

87irocz350

Its an AudioBahn A8002T.
1600w peak at 2ohms, briged.
800w per channel at 2ohms. 400w Rms per channel at 2 0hms.

Thats what I know untill the Amp arrives UPS later this week.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

The amp has two 30-amp fuses, which means, assuming they properly spec'd the fuse at 85% capacity, means that its maximum current draw is approximately 52 amps. At 14.4 volts, that means the amp can DRAW a maximum of 749 watts. Since a typical a/b amp is approximately 50% efficient at best, that means that the best you can expact that amp to do is about 375 watts of output power, although I'd bet that when it tries to push a reactive load instead of a purely resistive load like they base power ratings on, that its actual power will nosedive. It's not necessarily too bad, but for the $350 that the amp costs, you can buy stuff that makes a crapload more power. But, I guess you wouldn't get the shiny chrome and illuminated logo.

Anyway, on to my point. A 60 amp draw is well within the means of your stock 100 amp alternator, although you may find that your lights will dim a bit.

junkyarddog

Class AB for subs......what were you thinking?

oh well, live and learn.

Remember for future reference: Class D

Rumor has it that there is something even better than Class D now, class T or Tri-power or something.....interesting.

87irocz350

I got the amp off ebay for $160..not too bad. Im going to run these Armageddons off it for a while. But, let me ask this. What is a good amp that would run both these subs for lets say...around $200.
Oh, I also have a 850w Ultimate amp..if that would work better. Or, I have a Power Acoustic 525w mono block amp..but, I dont think it would put out enough to run them.

ScrapMaker

mono block rules! but those audiobahns are prolly the best AB amp for subs...

look on sounddomain.com... there are so many d-class amps, and their friggin cheap watts/dollar...

this is just a thought... if you could adjust the gain properly, then you could use two different amps, two different brands, just adjust the gain. Then you would have enough.

NEEDAZ

Class-T is a trade mark term for a company called TriPath. It’s there little twist on Class-D. Instead of using one base frequency for the PWM stage they vary the frequency based off of their DSP technology. They call it DPP (digital power processing) or something like that. Any who, that the basic (read: vary vary boiled down) idea behind it.

http://www.tripath.com/tech.htm
http://www.tripath.com/downloads/TA0102A.pdf

You get the high fidelity of Class-AB and the power efficiency of Class-D. The Clarion DPX-1000.2 uses the TA0102a driver, it’s a neat little package.
So as a run down on the amplifier classes.
Class-A
Class-B
Class-A/B
Class-C (RF use)
Class-D
Class-E (RF use)
Class-F (RF use)
Class-G
Class-H
Class-T (trade mark of TriPath)

I’m positive there are more, maybe Jim will chime in.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

There are a few different "classes" but most of the new ones are marketing hype based on small variations of the class D technology.

NEEDAZ

Marketing hype is a good way to put it. Most of the variants are based off of Class-A, Class-C, and now Class-D. Class-B,A/B,G, and H are dressed up versions of Class-A and H (Variable rail voltage) is a fancy version of Class-G (Dual rail voltage). Class-E and F are versions of Class-C with the most obvious difference being the tuned network. Class-T, like was said is a variant of Class-D.

Wow, that was a tangent. Back on topic. Even if that amp pulls a full 60A your stock electrical system should be fine.

87irocz350

Well..seeing how I'll have 3 amps laying around..I'll just try different set ups. Im not too worried about it. I'll run them like this for a bit..then, I'll probably sell two of the amps and get a nice Class D amp.
The guy at the local stereo shoppe offered me a cool amp. Its a USamps. He said it puts out 2000 continues watts. The front and back are plexi-glass. He said retail on it is like..$1600 or something..He said that he would sell it to me for $800. I might go that route after I save some money..

ScrapMaker

WHOA! check on ebay first, or just the net on the model of that amp... might be peak wattage... you can find true RMS 2000 watts for less than that on the net... in new condition... I personally don't mind used stuff, amps are usually in one of two conditions... working, and not working.... no in-betweens... maybe if you run it high for short periods of time then it might have problems overheating or something, but I've never had a problem with a used amp. -- speakers, on the other hand, are much different.

onebadwagon

i personally prefer class AB amps, for subs and all.

they just seem to give alot more output per rated watt.
less efficient, but i like em just the same.


adam

ScrapMaker

everyone has their tastes.... but its true that class d or similar puts out a cleaner signal, has a lower signal to noise ratio.... more efficient, higher total wattage... can take 1 ohm loads or less most of the time... and they are usually the same price or cheaper as an AB amp of comparable power.

onebadwagon

class D are not cleaner than class AB as a general rule.

the reason class D amps are so popular, is that they are MUCH cheaper to produce, and cheaper to buy to the customer.

class D is great for the money, but my overall preference is class AB.

you can run some AB's into 1/2 ohm loads.

87irocz350

Rock out, so my AudioBahn shoud push my subs pretty well?

NEEDAZ

I agree. Efficiency is the big thing with Class-D.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

The debate lies in whether the "cleaner" sound is actually audible in the bass range. The human ear is not very good at recognizing distortion at very low frequencies, and although the distortion from a class d amp is higher than an AB, it's still very low. In a direct a-b comparison, I would be surprised if anybody could hear a difference in the 20-100hz range that the class D amps are used.

onebadwagon

yes, i agree with you on that, it is very hard to hear that, especially at volumes over 130db.

i'm not saying that i prefer AB for being cleaner, that would be a crock, but, i will say, that in my experience, an amp rated at say 500 watts, an AB will hit harder than a similarly equipped 500w D.


adam

NEEDAZ

I agree that you may (read: probably) will not hear the difference, to say Class-D is cleaner is not an accurate statement. All the fuss over Class-D is in its efficiency.

ScrapMaker

well, in that case, I still prefer them due to size and cost... but I can't claim to be an expert on the "clean-ness" of the sound... I can say that some of the MTX class d amps I've seen are 100+db signal to noise ratio... and that's one of the highest I've seen on any amp.

87irocz350

well, My amp arrived today. And I just tore apart my box to cut it down some...Liquid nail is some pretty strong stuff...I'll tell you that much. I should have the system installed in a couple of days. I'll let you guys know how it all sounds. My hopes are high.

ScrapMaker

kick ***... so its the audiobahn? are there really white gloves in the box? hehe

87irocz350

yea, and it came with not one, but two steal me stickers. A purple one..and a white one. The gloves are nice.

ScrapMaker

gonna put the amp in plain sight to really rub it in those thieves' faces? ha ha you can't steal me unless you sorta try, suckers! oh wait... maybe you should hide it in your car and strap it down, and put camoflauge on it... then put a decoy amp right near it... then put fake wiring to the fake amp... that MIGHT do the trick... but I dunno, every amp I've ever owned has been ripped out of my cars... so far so good with this new alarm though, I think the blinking LED scares em away..

87irocz350

I think all the "bling" from the chrome on the amp would blind the thieves. Its like a security deivce.

ScrapMaker

I'm not sure how well the bling protects against thieves... I guess we will find out...