SnkSknrZ28

iTrader: (2)

Well the results are in, i guess i can say i'm pretty happy, the engine specs are as follows, 383ci, 10.5:1 compression, AFR heads, solid roller cam, edelbrock victor jr., might demon 750cfm carb

Results: 544.7 HP, 492.8 LB.Ft Naturally Aspirated

Didn't dyno with the Nitrous due to lack of time, however i have the 200 Hp jets in my Fogger system

Pix of the 8pt, roll bar at the end of the week

Chickenman35

Very nice!!

scottland

i'm thoroughly impressed

thats the engine i wish i had the money to build

IHI

iTrader: (1)

THEGENERAL

wow

SnkSknrZ28

iTrader: (2)

Thanx guyz, not alot of comments just alot of ooo's and ahhh's and wow's haha but i'll take it! Now i just gota slap it between my fenders and see how she runs in the big 1320

Rick King

not bad!!

That is probly a barily streetable motor.. Nice !!

How do you like the afr's?

later and thanks

rk

Chickenman35

Well...I would like to know what the cam specs are...

THEGENERAL

yeah what he said ...lol...what are the specs on that cam ?

Verviticas

Thats a pretty big cam. Looks similar to the engine i want to build. (400, afr's,750,xr276)

Desk dyno is giving me a 502hp/500tq with a 400. So your cam is even bigger me thinks. OR could just be a real slick combo tho.


Have fun driving your guided rocket....give them 911 turbos hell.

SnkSknrZ28

iTrader: (2)

Y do u say it must be a barely streetable combo? Its as tame as can be, 10.5:1 compression, 93 octane.. With the right combo (like i have) you can make tons of power and be totally street mannered..

383, lunati pro mod rotating assembly, AFR 210cc heads, 100% cnc ported, 64cc combustion chambers, Solid roller camshaft .582/.588 lift (with 1.6rr's it comes out to .621/.627 lift and 254/260 duration on a 110 lsa, 106 centerline)

Big cubes, Big heads, Big cam = nice power

THEGENERAL

i could only imagine how much of a chop chop chop it has at idle ......i bet it sounds as good as it runs ... :hail: :hail:

Momar

What manufacuters cam is that?

SnkSknrZ28

iTrader: (2)

thegeneral, I definately has a very mean idel lol, i was standing next to it checking the timing on the dyno and i had a boner the whole time, very deep and aggressive..

momar, it is a Comp Cams custom grind

Momar

Cool. Is it based off of one of their off of the shelf cams, or how did you decide on the grind? I just wonder because it seems to perform real well. Obviously, the high lift w/ those heads is helping out but didnt know if you did anything special w/ it. What kind of rpm range do you expect this motor to perform in. I know you said it would be streetable(and believe me, I would drive almost anything on the street), but with that large of a cam, I could see it being on the large side of a lot of peoples street able list. I guess one thing that will make a difference, is that w/ the faster solid ramp rates, you can have a larger cam that is more steetable than a comparable hydrolic. I actually have considered a solid flat tappet isky cam w/ similar duration, but not as much lift(just under .600) since it is flat tappet. I think the rpm range on it was 2800-7000.

Sorry about the questions, but when I see a combo that works as well as this one, I try to research it as much as possible. I think it helps to get a better grasp on what stuff works well together and what doesnt.

Ben

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

You'll think different after driving it Streetable is a big gray area, but your engine is borderline race only. Who cares if it runs on 93 octane. You'll need so much converter and gear to compliment that cam that even the diehard guys wouldn't say its street mannered.

That powerband, with no useful vacuum, 5mpg, intermittent surging and engine shutoff at idle is not my idea of "totally street mannered".

Nice power numbers though!

I still don't understand the concept of dynoing an engine without as installed accessories and exhaust. It's a fictional power number.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Wish you lived closer I could show you how streetable my combo is. I installed a vacuum canister and my power brakes are every bit as good as they were when I got the car. It will idle all day at 900 rpm, I use to to go parts store shopping, take the wife out to eat, cruise nights with all in town stop and go, driven to a buddioes house an hr away on the interstate. Motor has never gone over 160*, tranny temp never goes over 160* unless I'm going round robin bracket racing. You see my stall and my gear, I run the interstate all day at 3000-3500.

Now if I wanted a mpg record breaker I would've built a car like yours But I choose real fast instead!!

SnkSknrZ28

iTrader: (2)

Momar, i believe the cam is based off of one of their shelf cams, i called up Comp and asked what they recommended, he said he'd recommend a custom grind, gave me the specs, i took it to Mike Janis at Jan-Cen Automotive (my boss, professional engine builder) he said thats the same cam he'd pick so i bought it. The rpm range for the cam is 3000-7500rpm, when i dyno'd the peak HP was 544.7 @ 6400rpm, however it did keep pulling up to 7000rpm (maybe higher thats just where we cut it off) it definately didn't die off as i see alot of motors do. I work at the place i dyno'd and i dyno engines all day long so i see alot of mistakes that others make. If ur looking for a recommendation from me, i'd definately recommend calling Comp, we've had ALOT of luck with there cams

Marc 85Z28, I believe theres alot of misconceptions with alot of people and there thinking of what is streetable, what is not, how far can u take engines and keep them streetable, todays technologies are a TON different than back in the 60s and 70s, u can get away with FAR more than u ever could.. Believe it or not, we had my engine ideling as low as 650rpm and it did not die, the air was very humid and hot that day (98% humidity, 85 degrees), granted conditions will change, but the engine will idel at 800-900rpm and be fine, no sign of dying.. Haveing a Solid Roller Camshaft is key in alot of what i and maybe others are able to do. Surge u say? absolutley not. Also, there are three others around town with the same motor (give or take a bit) and they drive all the time, no problems. Another buddy of mine has a 91 GT mustang with a bored and stroked 351 (408ci) AFR heads, bigger solid roller cam than i, 11.3:1 compression, and nitrous, just ran a 10.1 in the 1/4 five days ago with a 125shot, drives it 100 miles a week at least, goes on 150-200 mile round trips. HOT ROD and CarCraft magazines have been doing streetalbe build ups for a while now, u can get alot of ideas from there. I have an advantage over most people being able to dyno so many different engines and setups, seeing first had what works and what dont.

With Solid Roller camshafts you can actually acheive MORE vacuum than a hyd.roller, or flat tappet cam so that is no concern. As for the Converter and Gears another misconception, my buddy with the Stang has 3:73s, runs like an freakin' animal. I have 4:11's in my 12 bolt, i figured out that i should have about a 3:90ish gear so i actually may have alittle to much gear and my converter is a custom built 9", with about a 4300-4400 stall, Carl at Competition Transmission does WONDERS with converters, very popular around my area especially with the street cars, they lock up quite nicely on the street but when ur on the track they let loose they're amazing. Now with these setups and using nitrous we gain about 15mph in the 1/4 and the converters stall about 3% higher.

And last but not least, the purpose of engine dyno'ing.. The engine dyno is by no means a fictional power number. I put my engine on the dyno to see exactly where the engine likes the timing, setup my carb, got it all tuned and dialed in. Most people that build there engine will set there timing for 38* and leave it, i dyno'd mine made 536 hp with 38* of timing, took some out of it and went down to 35* and i made 544.7, u would have never known that. Anyone running fuel injection or a carb knows that u have to play around with jetting or fuel pressures, again i got my A/F perfect on the dyno, granted i'm gonna have to tweak it a bit when i get it running on the street but that goes with anything.

IHI, Awesome car, and awesome combo!

RB83L69

Don't want to burst anybody's bubble, but that's an off-the-shelf XR292R as far as the specs; maybe it's on a small base circle, to be considered "custom". http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Cu...ML/128-169.asp scroll down to page 158, it's right about the middle of the page. Looked a bit familiar to me.

Good numbers though. Should be alot of fun to drive. You're exactly right about solid rollers, they allow the valves to open so fast, that the "leak" you get from the period of time when the valves are near the seat, is minimal; and that's the thing that makes a cam unsuitable for street use. That's why we've been using them for all these years.

It would be interesting to see some more nearly real-world numbers from your motor with it on the stand; things like normal chassis-fit headers, belt-drive water pump, alternator, air cleaner, cool air (85° .... that's a mild late-winter day in some parts of the country), etc. etc. All in all the situation you have there is what I'd consider pretty much ideal conditions.

Kind of reminds me of working on Comp's dyno cells, except that it's one helluvalot hotter there (Comp) than in Buffalo. And, theirs has the cell exhaust blowers overhead, rather than in the wall. One thing they didn't do when the built theirs, which I would have liked to see, is pressurize the room; so they have to correct for the reduced pressure from the exhaust blower. But, they have 2 cells, and keep them both busy, so they gather lots of data on what changing the camshaft does to the engine.... which is what they intended their cells for anyway, rather than going for max output of the engine.

SnkSknrZ28

iTrader: (2)

Thanks RB83L69, I checked out that page u found on Comps web site and that does appear to be my cam, interesting, i'll have to look at the box tomorrow when i go to the shop. when i called he said he'd recommend the custom grind to me, so i went ahead with it, oh well, so i guess its an off the shelf cam all of you can buy Still rips pretty good in my tree eighty tree

Now what will i run for track times??? 1/8th mile, 1/4 mile and MPH??? Car weighs 3300lbs, full suspension done, th400, tranny brake, 12 bolt, 4:11s...etc...

IHI

iTrader: (1)

mid to low 11's

Air_Adam

Momar

Are those the normal AFR 210's, or are they the cnc competition ported ones?

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Snksknrz28 listed his 210's as 100% cnc ported so they'd be the competition ***** out casting.

Mine are just the race ready 70% cnc ported jobbies. FWIW, these AFR210 out flow Dart Pro 1 230 heads out of the box by 30 cfm, so in laymens terms that equates to roughly .3 on the track.

I had mine flow tested when I got them and the AFR catalog numbers are actual, not advertised.

SnkSknrZ28

iTrader: (2)

Hmm thats interesting IHI, i didn't know that, can i ask what they flowed for you on the pump?? Was it right on the money when u flowed them or just close..

At the point i'm at right now i'm not so sure that me goign with the Competiton Port actually helps me a whole lot more than the Race Port, maybe if i had more compression and a bigger cam i'd see bigger differences.. Slight overkill on my part but it'll be nice to have in the future..

Mike

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Intake cfm @28": Exhaust cfm @28"
.100 70.7 49.1
.200 134.5 109.8
.300 193.8 146.4
.400 240.9 183.6
.500 274.4 205.3
.600 280.8 217.0
.700 280.8 223.7
.750 279.2 227.1


Hope this goes up right so it makes sense. The guy that flow'd them for me says he can probably massage them a little more and get them over 300 cfm max by blending in the core shift a little, so I may do that when the time comes to freshen up the motor.

Oh, ran a new best of 11.050 tonight with a 1.482 60' @ 120.48 mph Tried uping the timing to 40* for a 10.999 pass but it put too much bottom end and I blew the tires off with a 1.55 60' and I got some detonation with the 50/50 mix of 92 octane and 110 octane @ WOT and 40* timing.

Momar

IHI, I have a couple of questions for you. Have you had your car/motor dynoed? If so what did it put out? Also, where do you get bullet cams, and how are they priced compared to companies like comp?

Ben

nick418

HS those are spetacular #s as well a sweet engine. Goodjob

SnkSknrZ28

iTrader: (2)

IHI, thanks for posting the flow numbers.

Ever try goign down with the timing, i started off with 38* on my motor and dyno'd 536, then went to 40* and did 528, so we tried 35* and ended up with 544.7, the final number, for some reason my motor liked less timing, maybe urs will too since we have similar combo's..

Nick418, thankx for the compliments!!

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Never had it dynoed, I really wanted too, but time, and budget constrantes as well as the fact I wanted to get into my own ride again and away from the truck so I could actually touch the motor and tune it to be competitive so I was'nt going red every round. So far in the 5 races I've entered this past 4 weeks I've got 2 final wins and 3 semi finals, out drove myself in the semis tonight. I had a .504 to his .533 and thought he was gonna be coming harder than he was, I waited too long to hit the brakes and broke out with a 10.999 on a 11.02 dail Got my 10 sec time slip through the pipes and backed it up with a 10.98 on a time only run, but still mad as heck I over drove myself, and he ran a 10.063 on a 10.06 dail and is the current points leader and good friend so I was really upset, but yet I was'nt

http://www.bulletcams.com/ is the link for Bullet camshafts. I went with them based off all the great response off a drag racing forum I go to, everybody kept saying how consitent they are and also when they-Bullet-give you the cam reccomendation it will sound really small, but install it and see how much power it makes. Well, it was true. This cam is VERY consistent, VERY powerful, extremely small specs and again all the guys running them say they love Bullet because of how easy they are on vavle train parts. I ordered mine with the iron gear for the distributor pressed on since I've personallly seen 2 motors go bye-bye thanks to the bronze gear needed on a regular solid roller cam, so far I'm very happy with it and the wear pattern is perfect on the dis. gear. They will however laugh if you ask if they can grind it for power brakes, John-the owner-told me to call another company if I wanted power brakes casue their's are built for power period. I did add the vacuum canister and power brakes are great!!! And as I've said before this motor is very streetable.
Theyare priced exactly the same as Comp which would've been my second choice, but everybody I know is running Comps and I like always love trying new things and thankfully this is a chance that has been paying off-LITERALLY Think mine was $279 shipped to my door. If you decide to try them have as much info as possible and be honest about the cars true intention.

Snk Sknr, I intially went out at 38* timing. It was running really good, but I kept having red light problems, so tried the normal stuff to slow the lights and it did'nt work, ended up going down to 36* and it put me where I needed to be exactly, and guess what, your right it has run it's best times so far at this timing. My worst light tonight was a .521 and best was a .504 in the semis's so it's keeping my package really tight and I press the heck out of the tree and have'nt been red since the timing and other misc changes yet.

As far as hp numbers...??? I've been to different sites where you punch in the car's weight then you can run ET or mph and both times it comes pretty darn close to what my DDyno said it would in the upper 580-590hp at the flywheel and 505 at the tires. But I only take that for what's it worth.
http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm
Car weighs 3557 and here's my time only pass to enter in for data.

I also need to note for my own sanity, this pass was spinner coming out again. They had the Div 5 Pro-Am there and we followed the Top Dragsters and water was literally drug up to the starters area, I had been 60'ing in the 1.482-1.49 all night so that kinda shows how bad the line got the last few passesI made time only's. Now I'm done making excuses

Momar

Thanks for the info. I think I will at least call and talk to them when I get ready to buy a cam for my upcoming 406 project.

Congrats on the 10 sec pass. Thats awsome.

Oh, and did you get your lifters/springs/pushrods from them, or someone else.

Thanks

Ben

IHI

iTrader: (1)

The heads came set up for solid roller so I did'nt need springs. I got some lunati horizintal bar spring loaded lifters and .080 1 peice pushrods from Comp, all from jegs. If you can swing it, definately buy the Crower Severe duty roller lifters. They are almost $500 for a set, but hands down better than any of the lifters you can get in Summit/Jegs.

RB83L69

Bullet is in North MS, just outside of Memphis, in Olive Branch. Probably not 5 miles from Lunati. Some of the same people that have worked for a bunch of the other cam grinders on that area, including Comp, Lunati, Ultradyne, and Cam Dynamics, are over there now. In fact I've heard that a long-time friend, a guy named Bob who was at Comp and RHS forever and then later at Ultradyne before it imploded, is over there now, although I haven't called to see if it's the same Bob.

Anyway you can easily contact them www.bulletcams.com

Another roller lifter type that people are claiming good results with is the Isky Red Zones. They have a passage that feeds pressurized oil to the rollers.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

Funny you should mention old tech and solid roller together. I've tossed around running a solid roller in my 355 when I get off my butt to slap on the AFR 195s I have laying around. But the idea of pulling the valve covers on a regular basis to adjust the valves is a PITA and a big con. I like the more modern hydraulic setup. Adjust them once and forget about them. Who cares if you lose some HP? And the few large solid roller "street cars" I've ridden in (which had similar setups to yours) were anything but street mannered IMO. Some people may beg to differ, but 4.10s w/out OD, 4400rpm stall converters, large solid roller cams, large primary carbs and gas mileage comparable to full size RV sounds more like a race car than a street car...

Just because YOU drive it on the street doesn't make it a street mannered car.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

If youe constently adjusting valves, something is amiss. Goes back into the quality of parts you buy. If you buy some $150 roller rockers there will be nothing but problems since they are weak and flex and yes they will lose lash adjustment. If you want total hands off, get Jessle's. Set them once, check them every 5-6 months and your good to go.

I do agree there is some trade off with hp. Unless your building a mountain motor it's hard to get outragious hp numbers and still be "streetable" by your definition. Other than my car being plain loud through the mufflers everybody that's ridden in it is on the same stage as me talking about how mild it is, even the select few that have driven it say it's kinda boring they say it's like driving their daily driver with it's mannerisms. Personally I now do more preventative mainteneance than with the previous motor, but I've got a few dollars in this stuff too, so I want it to last which anybody that cares about their stuff is going to do, I'm sure you also change your oil religiously as do I. Do I change plugs more than you....probably becasue I want peak performance and racing in ANY vehicle is hard on equipment, so I try to make sure everything is running right. Do I really need to change them 3 times a year, probably not, but they're cheap so why not?

There are cars I know of like you mention that are fast and require alot of maintenance, but they did'nt get lucky and find the combination that works, all some people know are throw money into high dollar parts, get the biggest of everything and it "should" be fast but I personally am a prime example as are super stock guys that that is NOT the case.

If I wanted to road trip or hit a leg of Power tour, nothing is going to stop me from installing a peg leg or posi 3.00 gear and crusing the hwy all day at 70mph at 2800 rpm. Will it still do the ET in the 1/4 no, but could and would it make a long road trip set up this way....why helll yes. Just like all my girlfreinds tell me..."too much is never a bad thing"

SnkSknrZ28

iTrader: (2)

I sure hope i dont have to adjust the valves on a regular basis, haha, I now with solid cams they say your supposed to keep an eye on the valves but like IHI said, u dont have to do as often as u think. Not to mention i put the Crane gold Race Rocker arms and a Crower Stud girdle on so that should hold them nice and tight.. But me being as picky as i am, i will probly be checking them more often than i should be

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Exactly, well said!! It never hurts to be a wee bit more cautious then careless especially with the prices of GOOD parts. Alot of misconception is brought about from the day of "old school". Without the old school we would'nt have what we have today, BUT it also needs to be realized as time goes on little quirks of ole are usually resolved, such as the case with solid lift cams. I cannot count how many friends are running flat tappet solids and maybe annually check lash. Things have getten just that much better than in the 60's/70's. Never hurts to be finiky-to a point.

I have since taken enjoyment argueing with my buddies dad in the shop about car parts. He himself is "old school" when camel backs were the stuff, and still he does'nt understand he's going to be putting more money into heads that flow so-so at best when he could spend another $100 for new heads that out flow circles around the double humps/fuelie heads. Just like when my A2000 seized up from welding wire getting sucked into the impeller the only thing in town to get me going for the next days race was a Holley Red. I had sever stumble/surging at the top of each gear, "he" said it was getting plenty of fuel at only 97 gph. I installed a fuel pressure gauge under the cowl and low and behold 3 psi at WOT. AGain "he" did'nt think I'd pick up with more fuel pressure, I argued differently. Installed a black pump spring in my temporary Red pump and carried 7.5 psi all the way down the track, no surging/stumble and guess what .2 quicker, ran 11.3's with the red pump ran 11.1?-11.0? with the black pump spring in my red pump with the additional fuel pressure. Still he argued that was'nt the reason.

Oh..and he's also the "cam grinder picker specialist" lol. His kids bbc blew up so "dad" rebuilt his stock 400 with his "fuelie" heads and his "specail cam" that would make tons of power. Well, sad to say his car weighing 300lbs less than mine last year with more motor and bigger cam ran the same et as I did?!! with a 305 headed 355 and a peanut cam. He is the typical bigger is better and takes NO consideration the parts working in conjunction with the cam/motor to make the package. So I know and hang around old school hard heads that are closed minded and I have fun bickering, poking fun, and then doing my own thing and showing them better

In closing, the short block really has nothing to do with power, but is necessary to make realible power for a long time. Put all your money into the heads, cam as they are the #1 power makers, and get a convertor gear to compliment them and you will go faster with less everytime. Now how'd I get here with this schpeel? LOL