ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

Can someone please help me? The car has been progressively running more like crap every day. It's getting harder to start when cold. It runs better with the MAF unplugged. I went and bought a used MAF. It will start and die. When it does start and run, the SES light is on. It's a code 34. The seller thinks there is nothing wrong with the MAF. When I put my old one back on, it runs code-free, but crappy (crazy bucking hesitation when a constant throttle). Every other sensor is fine. The TPS sweeps smoothly, as indicated by an analog meter. I am going to probe between the MAF relays and the MAF connector, just to eliminate other possibilities.

ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

If I set the idle correctly, I have to turn the idle screw way up. Then I adjust the TPS. It will sit right around the middle. Then when I go for a drive, it idles insanely high as lone as the car is moving (put it in neutral). When I start the car it shoots WAY up before settling down. Adjusting it back down so this behavior stops leaves me pushing the TPS to the end of its adjustment to get it set to the proper voltage. Regardless, it runs poopy with my MAF, and doesn't run at all with the MAF I bought. I've tested every other sensor on this thing. I've been messing with it all week and longer.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

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ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

I'm not in denial. I know they're bad...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

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ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

All 3 relays (fuel pump, MAF power, MAF burn-off) are in working order.

The coolant temperature sensor measures fine at the sensor, and the same reading can be had at the ECM. The same applies to the TPS. I've tried 2 IACS. The spare one I have I took apart, cleaned it, and put it back together. The pintle does move in and out, checked visually, and also confirmed by the fact that if I set the idle correctly, it idles high and comes back down, indicating that the IAC is doing something (closing). The IAC passages on the throttle body were cleaned out with throttle body cleaner and compressed air. The manifold temperature sensor measures fine at the ECM. I replaced the O2 sensor for *s and giggles, because I bought it a few years ago when I bought the car (it's been sealed in a bag since). The timing was 2 degrees retarded (from 6 degrees BTDC), so I set that as close to 6 degrees as I could get it (probably 5.5). The injectors are only a few months old...Bosch design 3 from SouthBay. The fuel pressure measures correctly, and changes correctly with vacuum. The FPR is not leaking fuel into the vacuum side of it.

I can't think of any other sensor to check.

alan91z28

Do you have a scanner, if so what is the actual MAF reading and what is the IAC actually being set too?

Have you checked for air/vacuum leaks that are allowing the system to draw air in after the sensor

the other thing in general is that MAF on these systems are a pain... if you are willing to spend a little bit of $ i would look into the EBL... you can convert your system to speed density with very simple wiring mods (a handful of wires it is very easy) and there is great support on the board by RBob

The updated scanner and easy flash downloads make it very easy to understand what is going on and mod. Tuning is very straight forward and it comes with a number of base tunes that get you started

i have two 3rd gens already running this system and it is a huge improvement

ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

I am not interested in scanners or anything related to tuning. I am wanting to keep a stock car simply maintained. If I ever wanted to modify this thing, I would be going to something modern like an LS1, instead of dumping in money to a primitive, slow, German EFI system and 1950s engine technology. I also have a severe distaste for owning laptops.

This thread was created because the seller told me I was full of it that the MAF he sold me was bad. It came off of a car that had a SES light, but he never bothered to check was the code was for before tearing apart the car to sell parts. The MAF that is in my car makes it run crappy, but it runs. If I unplug it, it runs better. If I use the one I bought, it won't stay running after starting a few times. After a few tries, and it finally runs, it shows a SES light and it comes back as a code 34. He told me I should get a mechanic to document that this MAF is the problem. Sorry, but if I could afford to pay a mechanic to do anything to my car, I would have went that route in the first place. They would not let the car leave the shop with a bad part. They would keep getting a new MAF until they got one that works. It's also my daily driver, and I have no one to depend on for rides around the countryside (I don't live in a city), so I can't leave my car at a shop for this kind of nonsense, when I have a factory service manual, and I can follow simple diagnostic flow charts. He referred me to a friend of his, that when speaking to on the phone told me he doubts that either MAF is the problem and that I should be messing with the TPS and "adjusting it by ear," instead of to the 0.54 volts that the Bosch engineers specify.

ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

I've tried different intake tubing. The gaskets on the runners are pretty new. The PCV hose stuff on the passenger side that connects to the TB looked pretty suspect, hard, and old and crusty, so I did replace that the other day. The PCV hose on the driver's side, that connects to the PCV valve itself was replaced a few months ago. If I set the idle the proper way, the throttle plates have to be pretty far open just to start. If there was a vacuum leak, this wouldn't be so apparent, so without shooting some sort of flammable gas around the engine to test for leaks that way, I can safely assume that there are not vacuum leaks. I even replaced the gas cap this week, because that could technically be a vacuum leak, because that failed my emissions test a few months ago.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

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ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

I found a small vacuum leak on a line that's between the check valve and the vacuum storage tank. It really only appeared when I messed with the line (old spongy-cracky line). I broke the check valve trying to take off the lines, and it broke, so I just capped the line going to the manifold, which was replaced a few months ago. Fixing this changed nothing. Nevertheless, I will be buying a new check valve, some new tees, and some new line, just to get rid of the old line that leaves my hands blackened.

I sprayed brake cleaner along the plenum connections, every injector base, and the PCV hoses. No change in idle.

The seller said I should try my "stock" chip. This did nothing. All that was done on the new chip was AIR removal and messing with TCC engagement (EDIT: and to add the cold start function). It was not bought as an attempt to make more power.

Things done to the car:

- Serpentine belt conversion
- Gutted cat (to eliminate a possibility that the innards were old and rattling, diagnosing a noise)
- Ignition: MSD coil, cap, rotor... what you would call stock replacements, just didn't cost much more than store brands, so I bought MSD. If you want to call it a mod, go ahead. I don't consider it a mod.
- AIR system removal
- Bosch design 3 injectors from SouthBay
- Aforementioned chip

I had to replace the MAF when I bought the car. It would barely run. The symptoms on the MAF I have now seem to be inching towards how it was running then. The used MAF I purchased will only run the car if you rev the heck out of it. It pops and misses when you do that. Try to let it idle, it won't. Go to start up again, and the starter has a hard time cranking, like the cylinders have had a ton of fuel dumped into them. I'm not going to be trying this MAF on my car anymore, for fear of hydrolocking a cylinder.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

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ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

I'm running a plain paper element filter.

I am not going to spend money on a scanner and laptop. If Iwas going to spend that much money on something automotive-related in one shot, it would be another car.

I HAVE been testing things electrically with my meter. I've mentioned it several times here. Every other sensor on the engine has been tested AT the ECM plugs. Voltages and continuity of the MAF system wiring has been checked.

I am not going in circles. I know my MAF is bad, and I especially know the one the guy sold me is bad. I don't know of any other way to inform the guy, other than a consensus in a thread, that the MAF he sold me is no good. The car won't run with it, period. He had a SES light before he parted it, but never bothered to check it. Oh well, he seems to have cut off communication with me now. This thread is to gather concensus and show him that he's wrong.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Good luck

ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

Wow. What's with the attitude and the edits? Your first post here said "Sounds like 2 bad mafs. Been in maf denial several times myself." Now all of your replies are edited blank. Are people really going to refuse to help me because I don't want to shell out the kind of money that could buy another car for a laptop and a scanner, when diagnosing the problem PER the factory service manual does not require a scanner? All I want is some help getting my damn money back.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I tried. You are the one that is being stubborn. Told you what you need to do but you somehow think that we can magically hand you a folder of proof.
That's not how it works.
Your car and a scanner has the proof. Not us.

dpmalibu

iTrader: (44)

Since this loser wants to give me bad feedback I am now going to speak out. I sold him the MAF sensor off of a parts car I parted out. I was told by the guy I got it from it was new. It looked like it was new. Car ran and drove fine, I have video to prove. The car was not in limp mode as he claims. It was connected the whole time and I in fact test drove the car in my neighborhood and got up to about 50 mph( about as fast as you can drive safely in a neighbor) without any issues. The car had plenty of power. I even beat on it a little and got this car that he claims was in limp mode sideways in the parking lot I was in.


I was honest and told him that the check engine light was on and yes I did assume it was because the because the air pump was missing and the AIR tubes on the exhaust manifolds were left uncapped. If I am parting a car out and it runs fine I am not concerned with why a check engine light is on especially if it is running fine ( maybe that was a mistake on my behalf). I have never ran into a problem selling a used MAF sensor or any other part before.


Once he contacted me and he claimed it was bad I called him back immediately and asked him why he bought another MAF (especially a used one) in the first place. He told me basically everything he described in this post. So I responded back by saying if you are still having the same problem after installing the MAF he bought from me then it can't be the problem. So I referred him to another board member on here (who is now a friend and who continues to buy parts from me on regular basis) who is very knowledgeable of these cars. I also told him that I would give him his money back if he took it to a mechanic and had it documented that the MAF was in fact bad. I told him this since I don't know his mechanical ability and since my car ran w/o any problems.


I in no way intend to rip this guy off but apparently Ramicio has an attitude problem and refuses to take advise or constructive criticism very well. Even when I was trying to help him over the phone he immediately had a nasty demeanor.


I have been on this website for 10 years and have met many members in person, by phone or through Pms and have never had any problems with anybody. I do this for the fun of the hobby and to network with people.


I have all good feeback until this guy just ruined it. If you go in my feedback or in the feedback section you will see that I just recently got positive feedback from someone. In fact my positive feedback would be much higher if everybody left it.


I apologize to those reading this and to the moderators for typing this but I am not going to have a newbie of "3 years" and a handful of posts ruin my reputation on here. Moderators feel feel to send me a PM and I will gladly send you my number so we can talk about this over the phone.


One last note Ramicio failed to mention that he recently had a "chip burned" for his car to try to fix some other problem he has with the car. So obviously there are multiple things going on with his car.


Here's some advice Ramicio put your car back to stock and start from scratch. Stop trying to fix the car yourself if you don't know what your doing. If you are unwilling to listen to people who are trying to help you and if you are unwilling to or don't have the funds to have a "Professional certified mechanic" fix or even take a look at your , then sell it and buy a Kia or some other econo box!!!!

ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

I tried telling you repeatedly that the MAF I got from you does not give me the same problem as the one I have in there now. The one in the car causes a hesitation. With yours plugged in, it just plain doesn't run. A scanner wouldn't do jack **** to inform me why your MAF won't run my car. It is not a new MAF. It's a re-manufactured MAF. I never hid the fact that I had a chip burned. That was in 2015 for Pete's sake. I mentioned repeatedly I didn't have it burned to fix a problem, just to get the TCC to stay engaged when I let off the throttle, to remove the AIR functions, and to add the cold start function from the later years that did not have a separate cold start injector. You even admittedly say that you don't know much about EFI. Why don't we have some moderator come test the MAF you sold me? The only thing I refuse to do is to get a damn scanner. I have documented everything else I've tested with a meter, and how the damn factory service manual tells you to. If this is how this situation is going to be, then this site can just bite me and they might as well ban me. Have the moderators call me on the phone, too.

I will be sending the MAF back to you, and maybe then you can have it tested. Again, why would I take this to a mechanic? That would cost more than I paid you, and if I was doing that, I would just have them replace the damn thing. I'm going to buy an actual new one, not rebuilt, in the coming weeks.

dpmalibu

iTrader: (44)

One other thing. I did not get back to him because of his demeanor on the phone and the fact he Pmed me with a link to this thread and after reading this I could tell it was going to go any where!!! He should have bought a new MAF and called it a day. Instead of trying to throw used parts at it. He should have of thrown new parts on it so at least he had peace of mind that everything was new.

ramicio

iTrader: (-1)

If you cared about the situation at all, you would have read that I did put back in my stock chip yesterday. I repeatedly told you and that Chris guy that my MAF runs my car, but yours doesn't even allow it to run. I do get "nasty" when I have to repeat myself multiple times, and you both still ignore what I say. I DO know what I'm doing. I can read a book and follow diagnostic flow charts. Again, why would I spend more than I spend on the part for a mechanic just to document that the part is bad?

People buy used parts for a reason. You're so contradictory. You bash a person for buying used parts, yet you sell them to people. YOU didn't bother to check why your engine light was on. A simple few minutes of your time and a paper clip. You should do this before parting with anything electronic on an engine that has a SES light. You are the one who is being irresponsible here...selling untested parts (from a car with an engine light), and then having the nerve to act like I am somehow being lazy.

And yes, a car will have plenty of power in "limp home mode," so your claims about 50 mph and being sideways mean absolutely nothing.

The car IS stock.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

ramico and dpmalibu, you need to settle this between the two of you. And not in an open forum.

RBob.