DZcode

When I try to emulate/datalog simultaneously in TunerPro RT with Moates’ Autoprom, I can record many seconds of ALDL time without the engine running (key on), but as soon as I start the engine, I only get a few seconds of data and TP stops recording. Recording can not be restarted. The other functions of TP seem to continue working. If I close TP and try to restart, I get the message that TP is already running, but it will not come back to the screen. The only way to clear is to turn off the computer and restart.

When I first turn on the laptop I always get the following error:

NotifyAlert.exe Common Language Runtime Debugging Services
Process id = 0x5ac (1452), Thread id=0x5b0 (1456)
Click OK to terminate
Click OK to debug

If I click OK, I get

NotifyAlert.exe – No Debugger found
Registered JIT debugger not found…..
cordbg.exe !a 0x5ac

I’m using TunerPro RT on a ‘730 ECU Speed Density setup on a chevy 406. I’m using Moates’ Autoprom, ALDL cable and serial-to-USB conversion software (was on com port 4, tried switching to com port 3) on a DELL laptop with Windows XP. I’m using S_AUJPv4 beta bin with Super_8dm mask. I also had the same problem with S_AUJPv3 bin. I’ve removed and installed TP and the USB software a couple of times to try and clear the problem.

Anyone have any ideas?

91L98Z28

does it make any difference if you don't start datalogging until AFTER the engine is started?

DZcode

No difference. I've started the engine, brought up data logging in TP, hit record and the engine stats just stop moving.

Mangus

Bad wiring that is compounded with the engine vibration? Bad ground?

DZcode

Thanks 91L98Z28,
Thanks Mangus,

I have what seems to be a pretty good aftermarket speed density harness. The grounding wires from the harness all meet on what looks like a factory grounding eyelet with multiple ridges for a good bite. I bolted that to the passenger aluminum cylinder head. I will check the engine ground to frame.

Is there any reason to believe TunerPro didn’t load properly or the USB-serial converter is not working? I loaded the new version of TP RT last night and I still get an error message at bootup = Notify.Alert.exe Common Language Runtime… but the process id and thread id numbers in the error message are now different.

Mangus

NotifyAlert.exe is a Dell component that warns you when critical updates are available. It has nothing to do with TunerPro, etc, and I can't imagine what the problem is, other than some issue with your system itself.

The symptoms you describe seem strange, if only coincidental (i.e. that it does fine engine off, but engine on it doesn't work).

91L98Z28

arcing plug wires?
bad distributor ground?
bad plug wires?
bad plugs?
anything related to ignition system.

silvernblack

I was having problems yesterday...I couldn't connect consistently, I would only get a momentary connection and then drop out. It turns out that the way I had recently mounted the ALDL connection did not let the autoprom connector to get fully inserted. Just a wild guess, but you might want to try it.

69 Ghost

iTrader: (1)

I had the same problem forever and found out it was my connection at the connector. May want to try that. I found out when I tried to log using datamaster after lots of frustrating log freezes. DM would 'restart' automatically and I could move the cable and see it go on and off.......

DZcode

Thanks for the ideas guys. I just installed long reach plugs for the Edelbrock heads and I have new ignition wires to install too. The distributor and ignition module are used, but the cap, rotor and coil are new. I'll check the engine block-to-frame grounding, the harness grounding and the ALDL connector. I can imagine how the datalog would run properly without the engine running and then possibly get zapped by an arcing ignition spark.

I loaded the laptop with all the MS updates available, but still got the Alertexe error. I reinstalled XP over the original install (suprise it didn't blow up) and that eliminated the Alertexe error.

I'll give it another try this weekend.

87 Vette Owner

DZcode - How did you make out with this over the weekend?

I am having the same issue - it will stop monitoring (all data just freezes) and I won't be able to get it to monitor again until I completely shut down my lap top and reboot, then reconnect to the ECM. It will monitor ok for a while, then freeze up again.

69 Ghost - how did you fix the connection at the ALDL connector?

Thanks!
Dan

DZcode

87 Vette,
I started the engine today, but could not get the usb/serial port to initialize. By the time I figured out (remembered) that TunerPro ALDL setup defaults to Com port1 and not to Com port 3 (I had removed and reloaded all the software), I had to put the car away. I might get a chance to try again tomorrow. Will let you know what happens.

VR,
DZcode
Alan

DZcode

Data log still locks up.

I reloaded Windows XP, the new Tuner Pro RT version and the serial-to-USB driver. I replaced the plug wires, checked the wiring harness to ground at the back of the passenger aluminum cylinder head. The battery ground is bolted to the front of the passenger head. I have an auxiliary fuse box feeding the ECU. It’s grounded to the fender and to the negative battery post. That fender is grounded to the frame.

I checked the ALDL plug and ensured the terminals connect to each other and the wires are pushed in from the back of the plug.

I first ran a data log of about 500 samples with the key on, engine off. It properly recorded 0.59 Throttle position, 100 MAP, 12.9 volts, etc.

I then started the engine and started to record. The data log was doing fine until about 350 samples were taken and then it locked again. I could play back that data log and see all the engine parameters changing as they were supposed to. I could not record another session and when I closed TP, if I tried to reopen it, I got the message that says TP is already running. When I rebooted to clear the laptop, something happened to the data log and instead of being 350 samples long it was now only 2 samples long and the session name was unrecognizable computer characters.

When I rebooted, started the engine and tried to record, the parameters would lock immediately.

The ECU wiring harness may be too close to the coil, so I’ll move that.
I will pull the wires from the ALDL connector and plug them directly to the Moates’ connector from the AutoProm.
I’ll also swap out to another ECU to see if that makes a difference.
I think I might also try Scanner Pro with the Autoprom in by-pass mode.

Mangus

If you closed TunerPro and it was reported as "already open" when you tried to start a new instance, something is wrong with either your OS or a driver (i.e. TunerPro is trying to close the port, but the request isn't returning in a reasonable amount of time). This could very well be from the USB->Serial driver.

When you rebooted, you probably invalided the log you had, which explains the 2 sample problem.

I still think this is a wiring issue. It's just too consistent.

87 Vette Owner

Hey DZcode - did you ever discover what is/was causing this problem?

I'm still having the exact same issue. I checked all the connections but didn't find anything screwy. All grounds (including engine) appear solid and not corroded. All of my connections are USB, so I don't have the serial to USB issue to deal with.

Mark - any other ideas?

Thanks!
Dan

DZcode

87 Vette Owner,
I have not made any additional changes, so I have not attempted another datalog.

You state that you do not use the serial-to-USB driver. Unless I am mistaken, that driver must be installed for the AutoProm to work. If I understand correctly, the AutoProm was originally built to interface through a serial port. Now that most laptops no longer include the serial port, the driver allows a USB port to interface like a serial connection.

Taking a quote from the Moates faq page http://www.moates.net/mike/faq.html

“Does the USB AutoProm require a driver, and if so, where do I get it and how do I install it?
The USB AutoProm does require a driver. You can download it form http://www.moates.net/. Instructions on installation can also be found there. Without the driver, the AutoProm will not function. Note that the serial version does not require any special drivers “

I also found this line on the faq site:

“Now you're up and running. Don't forget: NEVER disconnect the APU1 or ALDU1 from the PC while the software is open! No damage will occur, but the PC side will hang up and get confused. So, always connect and disconnect your hardware when there is NO software open and running (safe rule of thumb). “

This indicates to me that I might be getting some kind of disconnect during the datalog session. Maybe a bad AutoProm to USB port cable, bad USB port, maybe the serial>USB driver. It’s just funny that it only locks when the engine is running, that’s why I was thinking 91L98Z28 ‘s advice about ignition spark arcing (electrical interference) might come into play.

Maybe I’ll try a datalog without the engine running, but move the wiring harness and cables around to see if I get a lock-up.

Cflick

Just a suggestion......

Try WinALDL. Does it also stop getting data ?
( it's free, uses the same connections, etc. )

I use TunerPro myself, and prefer it, but there are times when something else just for comparison isn't a bad thing.

87 Vette Owner

You are correct re: the USB driver needing to be installed for the AutoProm to connect properly; I have that driver installed. I misunderstood when you mentioned the serial to USB conversion software in your opening post, thinking you were talking about your lap top to AutoProm connection.

Some background on my situation: I used to be able to data log with no issues whatsoever. I always have my lap top positioned such that it won't really move around. Anyway, I had just made a left turn and didn't realize that the lap top had shifted. I got on it pretty good, hit second gear hard, and then backed off. When I pulled over to do a quick check of vitals, I saw that the USB connection had pulled right out of the back of the lap top . I think this is when my troubles began, but I'm not sure. As you noted, the Moates site says be careful NOT to disconnect anything while the software is open, but also says that no damage will occur, other than the PC getting hung up for that session.

I'm with you - there is probably a disconnect happening somewhere during the session. It happened again this weekend while my car was idling in the driveway - the lap top (or any of the other components) didn't move at all.

I was thinking the same thing re: the USB cable. Hopefully I'll have some time this week to troubleshoot some more.

Cflick - good bad idea, worth a try

87 Vette Owner

DZcode - you ever get this figured out?

I'm still having the SAME issue. I can sit there all day with the engine off (key on) and monitor / record data. But once I turn the engine on, after about 250-300 samples of data, it just stops recording.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I gave up on trying to log through the AutoProm and bought a regular old Serial Cable ALDL cable. It will be here next week. My problem is almost EXACTLY the same thing as the initial posters.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-get-shot.html

DZcode

87 Vette,
I have not been fully successful in getting a proper datalog.

I moved the coil away from the wiring harness and tried a different ECU. I also grounded the back of the laptop to the ground pin in the ALDL. I changed the serial-to-usb driver to run on com port 1, even though TP still showed it was connecting via com port 3. This gave me many successful datalogs, one up to 600+ samples, without stopping or locking up.

The very next day, I had the same lock up problem. I could get about 70 - 100 samples before it quite logging. Instead of having to reboot the laptop, I would click to disconnect the ALDL monitoring and unplug the Autoprom from the USB port. Then I would reconnect the Autoprom to the USB port, click to reinitialize the Autoprom and click to reconnect to the ALDL. TP would then begin to datalog right where it left off. But, the log would be corrupt (the time stamp would be 00:00 etc) or truncated and it would stop logging again after a few more samples. I could stop that log and start recording another, but that one would lock up too.

I would like to try adding more grounds and trying different com ports, but I’ve found out I have a blown head gasket. Lots of water shoots out the right side exhaust pipe even when fully warm. When I top off the radiator, the coolant level drops an inch or two while just sitting cold. Hope it’s a bad gasket and not a cracked head or block.

VR,
DZcode

87 Vette Owner

DZ - that really SUCKS about the head gasket .

I can't believe we can't figure out WTF the issue is . In my case, it used to work perfectly - I could data log as long as I wanted. Then something happened (see post #18)...

For kicks, I uninstalled and re-installed the USB driver on my lap top, and downloaded the latest version of TP RT & the firmware updates for the AutoProm. I'm heading out in a few hours to give it another try.

Maybe I will try going back to the serial / ALDL cable at some point.

884+3

Try a different USB cable. I had the same issues with my apu1 and tunerpro until i tried an old cable from a printer. It even has a ferrite magnet on it.

Solo2fan

DZcode,

I was having the same issue with my APU1 using Tunerpro and Datamaster. It did not matter if I was in autoprom or pass through mode. They would log for a few seconds then error. I found their is a known compatiblity issue with the FT232BM USB UART and 2.0 USB ports. Here's a link to the fix, look at section 4.4. After I added the 47pF caps I have had no issues.

http://www.ftdichip.com/Documents/In...tion_Guide.pdf

Enjoy,
Jeff

Craig Moates

Yes, this could happen on some of the older units. The newest ones, the type with the horizontal-only switches, already have those 47pF caps in there, so that helps to reduce noise pickup from more brutal ignition systems.

If anyone ever has a situation like this, feel free to let me know offline via email and I'll do whatever I can to get you running right on the hardware side.

87 Vette Owner

Thank you, Craig! I'll shoot you an e-mail from home tonight.

- Dan

DZcode

Solo2fan,
Thanks for the insight into the hardware issue. This may be the fix I've been looking for.

Craig,
I'm no hardware expert. From your post it sounds like the caps are fitted within the Autoprom. Is that something I can accomplish or do I need to send the unit back to you?

87vette,
I added additional grounds from the head to the inner fenderwell and ground all the existing straps and connectors with a file and sandpaper. It didn't help.

I wished I had more to work this on the car, but we're moving from VA to SC at the end of the week. THe car is being picked up for shipping today. I really wanted to drive it out there, but oh well.

rockit

iTrader: (3)

i'm having this same problem, my equipment is a moates usb aldl cable, and tunerpro rt. winaldl does NOT lock up ever, but TPRT locks up on a datalog most of the time, and especially when i'm pushing the car hard like at the dragstrip.

two nights ago i was out there trying to log a run and it would say "rec x number of samples" then i would save it, but when i tried to play it back it would only have like 12 goofy samples, and the last one or two samples would always be haywire, i.e. all the error flags light up the rpm goes skyhigh etc. now the car ran fine but i was ready to drop my laptop out the drivers side, maybe if i threw it when i crossed the 1000 ft i could o broke the beams and dropped my ET

Cflick

Just a thought.
Which ECM ?

rockit

iTrader: (3)

its a service replacement 165. yea i know 165's have that reputation..

Cflick

I'm not personally familiar with the 165, but I have seen where the 7747 works perfectly with TunerProRT, yet the 8746 does not, even though as far as TP is concerned, they should be exactly the same data stream, and winaldl works fine with both. Same vehicle.
ScannerPro seems to work fine with both, but is very early beta, and won't record a log for either.
I'm convinced there is some difference in the ECM, though we don't seem to know what that is.

rockit

iTrader: (3)

that's an interesting thought. might be something to ask mangus about.

interesting also that winaldl is so simple and reliable(though they often go hand in hand) and OLD, whatever happened to jonas?

hmm, is anybody ABLE to log runs on thier 165?

Cflick

I have. Last we communicated, he thought it was something in his code.
I think it's not. Not really. Then too, we pretty much know that the old C3 ECM's arn't a priority for anybody anymore, and probably shouldn't be so much.

Interesting that when I run TunerProRT, I run it under WINE under Linux.
If nothing else is running, it has the same problem as when running under Windows.
If I'm doing something else at the time, like recording a wav file, then TP logs perfectly.
I'm convinced it's a timing / resync issue somewhere, that all 160 baud ALDL links are not created equally, but I've been worng before......

rockit

iTrader: (3)

honestly the last time i was proficient with a computer my age was in the single digits and i was typing away at the DOS prompt, i really don't know much about current OS's.

Craig Moates

If you're experiencing data stoppage issues on 1227165 ECUs, then that is probably not related to this. This is particularly true if you can cause the data to restart by cycling the key power for 20 seconds.

If you have problems in high-noise environments with data flaking out possibly due to USB interference issues, then you can apply the FTDI-issued modification. This would only be helpful on the older APU1s or ALDU1s with the gray vertical switch instead of all-horizontal-black switches. The newer units all have this feature integrated already.

The FTDI modification is to apply a 47pF capacitor on each USB data line, coupled to ground on the other leg.

I'll include a photo of a USB connector underside with the capacitors in place. Be very careful if doing this mod.

-Craig

Craig Moates

Here is a photo which shows where the capacitors should be installed. They are 47pF ceramic caps.

87 Vette Owner

Hey Craig,

I am experiencing these issues; I've got a '165 ECM and have an older version of APU1 (with a horizontal AND vertical switch). I can not get the data to re-start by cycling the key power as mentioned above.

Will this FTDI modification help me? I'm not sure I understand it. I am running the stock GM HEI ignition with a "performance" (if there is such a thing) power module, a Hypertech coil, and an MSD 6A box. Potential for lots of "noise"?

Any help would be much appreciated as I can't seem to figure this out!

thanks!

Dan

Craig Moates

Dan,

That's a pretty noisy environment. The mod might make sense for you to try.

If anyone doesn't feel comfortable doing this soldering, just submit your unit for RMA on my website and I'll take care of it for you.

-Craig

87 Vette Owner

Thanks Craig!

I am definitely NOT comfortable doing the soldering myself (though I could try it and just send you the melted down APU1 when I'm done ).

I will send it out to you within the next week or two.

Thanks very much Craig!!

Dan

Kat

iTrader: (4)

Where can I get said caps at?

Thanks!

Craig Moates

Get with me offline, I'll get you taken care of on that.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Did anyone see what the cause of this problem was? I just tried to datalog today and came out with the same problem... 165 ecu.. datalogs for 10-15 seconds and then off it goes... I didn't even get a chance to put the car in drive

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I found part of the problem.. Someone posted on one of these threads a theory.. and it worked for me!

Go in my computer/properties/device manager and then there should be one of the last ones called "universal serial bus controller".. and inside there i have (windows 7 laptop)

1) Generic USB hub
and
2) USB root hub

Go in both of these by double clicking (I have TWO of each, so there's 4 total that you have to change) and then click on the 'power management' tab. There you have to uncheck "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power".

I don't know if this did the trick, but I can connect to the ALDL for over 30 mins which is more than enough... Before I was able to turn it on for 15 seconds before connection was lost!

Hope this helps.. (I do NOT take credit for this as I found that someone posted it in another thread, but he did NOT have the same success that I did it seems, but it worked for me! Can't hurt to try...)

ben73

Thread dig!! I'm getting back into tuning after more than 10 years. My old Moates ALDL-USB from 2004 was doing exactly as described above.
I've just added the caps and it's doing rock solid comms again!
Thanks for posting this info many years ago Craig

For anyone having the same issues, the biggest factor for me was forcing the Moates ALDL box to connect to COM2 on the laptop.
The Moates help info says to use COM1-8, but I was having dropouts and lockups as per above when using COM7.
COM2 works without issue

Now I just need to install a new battery in my v2 Ostrich as at 1.2v and it's forgetting the .bin after a couple of hours.