dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

alright i have an 89 camaro rs i been having trouble with the vats for about a month now, i measured the resistance of the pellet in my key and got a resistor to match it, then soldered into the vats leads coming down from the steering column and it worked perfect for a week, though it was warm those days, now it happening again and it cold outside as well, if that has any effect on this system at all i don't know, but the past 10 or so times i've attempted to start the car it was cold out i wasn't getting fuel or spark and i could hear the fuel pump kick on. The security light comes on then goes off like its supposed too, i think. I'm in the process of ordering a chip to have vats turned off but still need to fix this problem, i did put in a b&m mega shifter back in the summer but never had any no start problems afterwards, i'm working with a 305 tbi setup, new starter,super coil, plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor bug as well as a new ignition module, please help

Danno

If it cranks the VATS is probably OK the way you bypassed it. Unless the starter enable relay has been bypassed the VATS won't let it even turn over. Try removing the resistor, power down the ECM for a minute or so, restore power to the ECM and then install the bypass resistor. See what happens.

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

i'm headed out to try that now i'm not quite sure if it'll work but yeah i'll try anything at this point

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

ok i dissconnected the battery neg cable for about 10 mins took the resistor off, reconnected the battery cable waited a min then put the resistor back on and started the car, it didn't seem to have effect at this point because the car started yesturday and the day before tomorrow will be very cold so i guess that 'll be the test, for some reason it starts in warm warm but not in cold weather, maybe its just me but i don't see how the cold and the warm would effect electrical systems besides the constricting and expanding mechanical parts but only then thats a minute amount hopefully this works i'll post again either way thanks for the idea

Danno

Check the value of the resistor agaist the key pellet. The pellets are NOT standard EIA values. The VATS has a tolerance window, but if the resistor is off enough when the module gets cold it may be off enough as to cause the module to not read it correctly. When I have done the resistor thing I use a 20 turn precision potentiometer tuned to the EXACT value of the pellet then lock it with a little nail polish.

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

yeah i used the same setup, tuned to the exact amount of the pellet tried to start it at 4:30 this afternoon it was about 29 degrees out and it turned over but would not start, again, please help i'm moving in a week and really need it to start when its cold
by the way the security light does go out and with the engine turning over leads me to belive if this really is a vats problem after going to countless websites reading up on vats and reading other peoples vats fixs i'm the only one with the cold weather no start??? what the crap???

Trickster

Your problem is not with the pellet in the key. I would start looking else where for the probelm. Have you looked at the Coolant Temp Sensor as a possible culprit? What kind of oil are you using and how good is your battery? Will it crank with a battery jump?

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

um oil is castrol gtx 10w 30 same as since the engine was rebuilt about 3 years ago, and i've been meaning to change the coolant temp sensor since i bought one from summit 2 years ago to turn on the fan at a lower temp but why would that matter? does have affect on the cold start injector? oh and it cranks like normal it just doesn't start lights on on and everything the battery is maybe a year and a half old even though i know a battery can go bad i've tested it numerous times

Trickster

No it doesn't have any effect on the cold start injector because your car doesn't have one. Not unless you or a previous owner installed an engine that had one. 88 was the last year for the cold start injectors. Here is some info about the coolant temp sensor (CTS). Are you getting any spark at the plugs when it cranks. Look at the ignition coil, ignition module, pick-up coil, check for moisture in the distributor cap or a crack in it.

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

i checked the the first cylinder drivers side front when the car isn't starting there is not spark, everything else is new, no moisture at all, but and you might think i'm dumb but what is a pick up coil?

Trickster

No, I won't think you're dumb or anything like that. There are many other people on here that don't know what it is as well so you are not alone in this.
The pick-up coil is is a ring of plastic with fine copper wires wrapped around it that acts as a electromagnet. It is located underneath the plate (known as a reluctor) that has the teeth or spikes in it. It connects to the ignition control module and sends pulse references to the sparkplugs as the rotor turns. Here is a somewhat picture of the circuit.

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

oh ok i think it a rust color yeah ok, well i will replace the coolant sensor the next warmish day which should be monday or tuesday should be about 53 degrees and thats plenty warm for me considering it 6deg the other day when i was going back over the ignition system, thanks for the info nobody else ever suggested the coolent sensor or pickup coil we'll see what happens i get back here and post when i find any changes or either way:hail:
oh crap um how do i check the pick up coil for wear or failure do i remove it or what

Trickster

This might help you in that regards.

Trickster

page 2

Danno

I agree with "T", odds are its the pickup coil. Just went through this with mine, it would run for 10-30 min and die. When you yank the dist look at the plug for the pickup where it goes into the ign module. Chances are it will look burned. Be careful when removing the top spring clip, the pole piece(the large fingers that stick up)can bend easily. The new coil should come with a new clip, but don't throw the old one away just in case. Make sure you use thermal transfer grease on the module. If you can get some use the white stuff used in electronics. It is much better than the clear crap they give you. I work with high power RF transmitters and cooling is a real issue. The white grease uses suspended zinc oxide and provides much better thermal transfer.

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

finally got the camaro into the garage after a short drive then a tow the rest of the way, i just moved so i didn't have internet access but its good to see the site back up, i'll be taking out the dist. in a few days and changing the fuel filter something tells me its part of the problem too, the car was doing its no start thing the past couple days i went to the old place to try to move it it finally started yesturday it was about 50deg and raining after adjusting the idle it ran good enough to drive about 5 miles then after going up a hill on a short 60 mph stretch of road it died at the top and woundn't start agin hence the tow....now that i have a 2 car garage it should be back in action after the new pick up coil goes in and a fuel filter change i'll post again if there is a change....thanks agin for the help and diagrams guys..

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

ok i got the pick up coil replaced along with the fuel filter and the coolant sensor my problem now is when i took the distributor out i marked the position of where the rotor was pointing upon putting the distributor back in i cound't get the teeth to mesh back in the same spot i don't know if i may of move it after marking the spot while removing the distributor or what happened so i tried the next clock wise poistion where the teeth would go in didn't fire at all so i went almost complety around and set it in just before the first place i tried to start the car and it started but ran really crappy so i tried to move the dist. and to the next poistion and it didn't fire, so doing a compression test as soon as i can get someone to help me crank the engine, the question i have is once compression starts to build in the #1 cylinder thats where i should move the rotor to point too right???
or is it a little before or what?? Again thanks for the help guys

Jim Berry

You will now have to locate TDC on the #1 cylinder. Then set your distributor rotor and cap together to fire on the #1 plug wire.

Locate and set timing mark to zero on the harmonic balancer. You can manually do it or "tap" crank the engine close to it.

Remove #1 spark plug. With the timing mark on zero, you should be able to "feel" the top of the piston with a small screw driver stuck in the plug hole. If you can't, then you are 180 degrees out of sync and need to rotate the engine once to align the timing mark at zero again.

You shold be able to feel the top of the piston this time.

Align your rotor and cap for the #1 plug wire.

Replace spark plug. Seperate computer pig tail from distributor.

Fire up engine, set correct timing degrees. Shut off engine, reconnect computer. Fire up engine again.

Should run fine.

Jim.

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the info

Lo-tec

Do a search for installing distributor. At TDC the timing mark will be at zero. There are two possibilities:

Engine on Compression stroke (the one you want) or

Engine on Exhaust stroke (the one you don't want).


You can put your finger over the spark plug hole and bump motor over. Will feel compression pushing finger off of hole on the compression stroke. Turn motor over to 0 degrees on balancer the rest of the way by hand when you feel this. Engine is now in correct position.

There should be posts on how to line up distributor for installation.

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

ok it started but is not on time i never timed an engine before so please help, do i loosen the distributor hold down and turn the base little by little?( not turn the rotor just the outer housing which moves the outer points around the inner points) it is a hall effect dist.... or do i need it turn the crank a little more or less????

Lo-tec

Loosen the distributor holddown bolt a little so you can move the distributor but not too easily. Put timing light connector on #1 wire (drivers front). Disconnect electrical connector (don't know where it is) so it is on base timing. Start the engine and shine the light on timing mark above balancer and adjust. If it runs like crap initially you can move distributor a little to get it to idle and then check timing. Base timing should be on emissions label under the hood. Once set, tighten bolt and recheck timing to make sure it didn't move. Reconnect electrical connector and you're done. If you don't have a service manual, I'm sure the info is on here somewhere about connector location, base timing, etc.

Good luck!!

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

ok i got the timing within normal range it sounded good but still had a little miss like it did way before the pick up coil went out, my only problem now, is i don't know what base timing is ( i continue looking around the web for it because the oringinal is gone), i can get it where it sounds like it was before but after i turn the engine off and reconnect the electrical plug starts up but the rpm shoot up to 1000 back to almost stalling a couple times and then it dies i tried some different poistions with the distributor but it doesn't help, once again it runs fine without the electrical plug, and pretty crappie with it???

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

i found a post for a 90 camaro with same engine with timing set at 0degrees i tryed that with the elec plug connected but had the same result it would start run for a couple seconds then die, but one more thing the magnet that runs around the points is cracked in two spots i did put it back together as best as possible could this be causing havoc as well??

Trickster

In a word, YES!!!!! it would definitely give you problems.

dollarbill425

iTrader: (2)

someone help me here what does the magnet do beside being a magnet, sorry, i've never dealt with this before... before i replaced the pickup coil the magnet was cracked but it ran on time there was a slight miss but it drove a couple miles and was fine until i went up a hill and it stalled now it stalls after a few seconds though it does fire right back up something it woundn't do before.....if you guys didn't already guess it this is a learning experiance for me i been through just about every other part of this car....once again thanks for the info it saves me money while i'm in a tight spot but who hasn't been....