megan.artiaco

Backstory -- We bought an 89 IROC-Z in February... the thing had sat in a garage for three years and just about everything on the car was taken apart. (I mean EVERYTHING) So we put the car back together, replace the fuel pump and the sending unit, replaced all the filters, changed the oil, drained the fuel, etc. and it started right up. *YAY!* Ran perfectly fine for the past two months. The alternator went bad.. replaced it without much thought because we didn't replace it when we bought the car, so we sort of expect things to fail. That alternator lasted 6 days. We had bought it rebuilt, so I figured there was a chance that it was poorly rebuilt. Went to O'Reillys and bought a new alternator and put it in the car. Car started right up. Ran fine for ONE DAY with no issues. The next day I took the car up to the convenience store, less than a mile away and back -- ran fine. Then, later on in the day, I went to start her up and it was acting like the battery was dead. So I had my sister-in-law's boyfriend jump it off, but all he was successful at doing was draining the battery completely. (he hooked up the + and - backwards) So I took the battery up to Advanced last night and had them charge it and test it. Battery is fine. Brought it home and hooked it back up into the car and it cranked right up, no problem except my headunit said 'failure' but everything still worked. The volt meter in the dash was reading about 10.5 volts, which I thought was strange.. This morning, I started up and it started fine.. showed 13 volts. Turned it off and went to crank it again and the battery lost all its charge as soon as I turned the key. I get no dash lights, no interior lights, no door chime, nothing. I plan to test for a parasitic draw by hooking the volt meter up between the battery cables and the terminals and basically pulling fuses until I lose the reading. Does anyone know what else may be wrong? Or is it def. a draw somewhere? Sorry for the long story and thanks in advance for any advice.

--Megan

mrrman

It sounds like a bad gnd somewhere....

megan.artiaco

Will I be able to find it using the method I was talking about? Or is there another (easier lol) way?

red rock

iTrader: (2)

This is just for information. I have a Bazooka boom box that was in the car when i bought it, ( I personally wouldn't buy these things) anyway, when the car sits for a few weeks, it will drain the Optima battery. I read the power wire to the box, and it draws a 40 ohm ground. Just something to think about.

megan.artiaco

Yeah, I only have a head unit, I don't have an amp or subs or anything like that.
How do I check the ohm ground rather than the Volts?
Sorry I am really new to this.

megan.artiaco

I tested the volts at the battery... 12.5v. Then I took out the fuses one by one and tested each time, and they all read the same, 12.48v

red rock

iTrader: (2)

You would need a multi meter, that has ohms on it. They run pretty cheap at a parts or building center store. Ohm's are the only good way to look for a short or ground or partial open in wires. The upside down U is ohms.http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...7CGRP2018_____

vjgillespie

I dont think this will tell you if you have a bad ground or not but it will test for a short without using an ohm meter. Just remove the positive cable (with the ignition in the off position) and connect a test light between the pos. battery post and the pos. cable if it lights up something is drawing power. You can pull the fuses like you had mentioned and when the light shuts off that will at least let you know what circut it is. Good luck.

megan.artiaco

Alrighty, I'll try it.

Has to be SOMETHING drawing power!!

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

To test for parasitic draw Technician A says to disconnect positive cable and connect test light between cable and battery post. Technician B says parasitic draw can be tested by disconnecting the negative battery cable and placing an ammeter between the cable and post.

Bronk

Always do the light test on the ground terminal (just the way it's done. not going to short out to anything that way)
both will work great an amp gauge will show how much of a draw there is

If it was my troubleshoot I would have the alt tested (after the reverse polarity could have popped a cheap volt regulator in the alt).
After that I would check the big wire from the alt to the top post of the starter this wire is famous for getting shorted out to the block, exhaust manifold, or just not making a good connection.
Next check the starter cable if it's green at the end replace it. also had one of these intermitantly short out to ground through the cable hold down before .

my two cents .

vjgillespie

If you hook a test light between the neg. cable and neg. post it wont do anything ( a test light has to have power at one end and ground at the other to light up). That is why you use the positive side if it doesn't light up then your problem is somewhere else or its an intermittent problem. The test light shouldn't light up on the positive side unless there is a problem.

ASE doc

Lol. Good one Razor. A little ASE humor there. The test light will not tell you how much draw you have. An ammeter will. Be sure that your ammeter can handle about 10 amps so that you don't overload it.

Also, using an ohmmeter to look for shorts or power drain is not a reliable method. Always use an Ohmmeter on the Amps scale to measure draw. Some ohmmeters do not have a good amps scale and may only measure miliamps. You can buy a simple ammeter or an adapter that converts amps to milivolts. A common test limit for key off current draw is .2 amps on computer controlled vehicles.

Connecting the jumper cables backward is a quick way to destroy the delicate solid state regulator in your new alternator. You may want to take it in for testing.

megan.artiaco

I have tested using every method mentioned.... I have found nothing!! I am going to take the alternator in to have that checked. If it is bad again, I swear I will never let anyone ever help me with a jump EVER AGAIN!

7thdarkangel

check to make sure your alternator wires are pluged in right. if you reverse them you will full field the alternator and have a big amp draw.

megan.artiaco

I don't think it's possible to plug them in backwards or anything. But I will double check just to make sure.

7thdarkangel

if the PO dint f up any of your wiring like he did to mine then you should still have the connector on wich only goes in one way. but it never hurts to double check. make sure you watch the ammeter when you un plug the alternator.

Bronk

Dude !!! It doesn't matter which post to cable you use the light will come on if there is a completed circuit. A side note on this test you will find that when first connected the bulb will light for a second and will slowly go out. This Is normal it is the capacitor in the delay dome light charging up.

ok back to the topic . was the alt tested?

78,79,84,86

nice tech help...my prob was center console light stayed on..drained battery...keep a book on it now..my 86 was a sign the timing chain was wearing..

megan.artiaco

Not yet I need to catch a ride up to the store. So frustrating! But I do have a meter... so maybe I could test it myself if I knew what to do. lol.. I am REALLY new to this.

megan.artiaco

P.S. The meter I have has a setting for continuity.. so I did that do. Also... I found out that when I turn the key to start it.. the battery doesn't lose charge, but I do lose all power.. Connections are good, checked those..

Bronk

Great!!! your using a meter . Set the meter to Dc V and do this in order

Check battery voltage - black test lead to neg post , Red test lead to positive. (this should be battery voltage only and read around 12 5.

Next Have some one start the car and read the voltage again you should get around 14 volts

lets start there.

megan.artiaco

Ok, the Battery read 12.47v with the car not running... The thing is.. the car doesn't start.

Bronk

ok is it turning over? or just dead? or just clicking? Do the innterior lights come on when you open the car door?

megan.artiaco

Doesn't do ANYTHING. No interior light or dash lights. No dinging. When I turn the key.. nothing happens.. literally... no click or anything.

megan.artiaco

But like I said, the battery does show a charge of 12.47v.

ASE doc

Really sounds like a bad ground or other connection. Or possibly a broken fuse link at the starter. Bronk, refer to the power distribution diagrams at EagleMark to find the current path from the battery to the ignition switch, unless you already have it. That may help you help Megan diagnose this problem.

Use the meter to test for power across the battery posts while a helper turns the key on. Does the voltage drop off? Could be a bad cell in the battery.

megan.artiaco

I had the battery tested at Advance. They said it was perfect. If I have someone turn the key to the on position, but not start it.. would/should that yield the same results?

Broken fuse link at the starter... How do I check that? I assume that would be easy... jack the car up and look at the wire connecting to the starter.. anything else I should know?

How else can I test for/find a bad ground?

Bronk

thanks doc.

ok now we know were looking for a bad connection . a quick check to see if there is ground
put neg volt gauge lead on the postive battery post then put the postive test lead anywhere you can find some bare metal alternator case is a good place it's not painted . the reading should be your battery voltage if you have a good ground

megan.artiaco

stay tuned, gonna do it right now.

megan.artiaco

I should throw the alternator back on before I do it, huh? lol give me 20 minutes.

megan.artiaco

Okay, doing exactly what you said reads 0v.

megan.artiaco

Battery reads 12.45v

So now I know it's a bad ground?

Bronk

sure lookin like it .

ok now follow the gound cable from the battery to where it bolts to the engine block and test that end of cable

megan.artiaco

Same way as I just did, right?
Thanks for all the help, I owe ya!

megan.artiaco

OK, I put the positive volt gauge where the ground is bolted to the block and the negative volt gauge on the bare metal of the alternator..... read 0v.

Bronk

errr no sorry should have said neg test lead too pos battery terminal and then positive test lead to cable end on block we are still looking for ground

megan.artiaco

Okay, sorry I have never done this before. lol

So I did that, and it reads 12.45v.

Bronk

np we all start somewhere.

now check the block if it reads zero clean that end of the cable and where it mounts to the block you should read that voltage. (on Bare meatal of course)

megan.artiaco

Yeap. Reads 12.45v. Which isn't making too much sense to me right about now... lol.

Bronk

both the body and engine should be grounded for everything to work properly if your altenator isn't grounded it won't work. same as the starter and anything else that is electric. we are makeing sure that we have a good ground

megan.artiaco

Okay, so the first test at the terminal read 0v and at the block it read 12.45v. What does that tell me? Sorry if I'm not picking up what you are laying down.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The voltmeter measures the voltage difference between the 2 leads. If the meter is connected to the battery post directly (not through the bolt) and to the cable and there is no resistance, then the meter will read 0V due to the fact that there is no voltage difference between the leads. However, by the time you get to the engine block, which is a primary ground for many items, there SHOULD be a voltage difference since the negative battery cable (the major ground cable for the entire car) connects to the negative side of the battery, creating a difference in voltage between the 2 leads. That's what they're getting at above.

IIRC, the ignition switch draws power off of the fusible links at the starter solenoid. You said the car sat for a while disassembled... First thing I would do would be to make sure the nut on the positive battery cable (at the starter solenoid) is tight and that ALL of the terminals (there are a few) down there are perfectly clean. I've had more than one car fail to start and lose power upon cranking due to both a loose nut and corroded terminals. You will notice this if a helper cranks the car while you are watching the solenoid connection... It will send a few sparks and then everything will die. From what I see in my service manual I'd definitely check the positive battery cable connection at the starter as the alternator's regulator power cable comes from one of the fusible links down there as well. The next time the car decides it has power, turn the headlights and fog lights on. Are they what you would consider rather dim?

megan.artiaco

Thanks for the explanation. I will have a look at the things you mentioned tomorrow.
There is no possible way to have a look at the starter without jacking the car up, is there?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

You MAY be able to see the end of the starter from either the front of the top of the engine or down the passenger's side of the engine. If not, you'll have to lay on the ground either in front of the car or on the side.

ASE doc

I believe you will find the problem at the starter connections.

megan.artiaco

Wish me luck! In a few I'm gonna head out there and see what I can see.

megan.artiaco

Good News! Tightened up the nut on the starter, and cleaned up the connections, and she's good as new! Tested the alternator and it's good to go as well!

THANK YOU for all the help guys!!!

Bronk