pontiacdog

I ordered a new headliner for a '86 trans am and I'm ready to install it.

The new one is made of ABS plastic so I was wondering, how do I attach the two clips/retainers from the old one onto it?

There are two clips on the old headliner and they keep the headliner in place near the windshield.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The old clips that held headliner in place aren't used. It's held in by visors, dome light, seatbelt retainers, and all the interior trim

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

whtltng89

When I did my 89 I used 2"x2" comm grade velcro.Stuck one to the hdlnr,the other pc to it,and made a tail on the release plastic cocering the adh. Get where you want it,pull tape,its not going anywhere

pontiacdog

Before I start cutting huge holes in the ABS plastic, what do you guys think I should use to cut it? (I have the overhead console option in my car)
I've heard people use safety knives etc. but that's probably good for fiberglass and all sorts of foamy materials. This is hard plastic so I'm guessing a knife won't do.
I have a dremel micro drill with several different blades but I'm wondering if that's overkill for this job?

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

There's a thread on that here on TGO,don't cut it till you find it.Use the search thread,you will find it.I did mine and it has all the measurements there.
Here it is https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/t...dconsole.shtml

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

I used a utility knife,just GO SLOW AND USE A NEW BLADE.Once the blade gets through the initial cut,it cuts like butter.

Ron U.S.M.C.

When cutting through plastic I have used a sharp tip soldering iron like this. Perfect for cutting circles etc. Just sand the edges . =
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...V5HuXHBr0_PNOQ

Practice on a piece of scrap and use sand paper on the tip as you go to keep the tip clean. You can use a straight edge also.
It does work well but has mainly been used on hard brittle plastic.
They make "heavy duty" Industrial strength Velcro

pontiacdog

I placed the old headliner on top of the new one and drew the outlines for the holes this way.
Still haven't cut it, though.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

That's a good idea.Just make sure you cut the fabric in a X at the holes,then just fold it over on the inside of the holes.

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

Pics of how it fits please when done.

pontiacdog

I encountered two problems. The dremel cut right through the fabric so I couldn't cut it in an "X" shape and fold it back. But I don't think this is a major issue since the overhead console covers such a large area.

But I can't fit the overhead console properly. There's a huge gap between the console and the headliner, especially in the front near the windshield. What to do?
I noticed the old headliner is 10 times thicker than this new plastic one which explains the gap.

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

As Ive said in other posts,the size difference is because they molded from the wrong side of the original headliner, makes it smaller. Also why the console doesn't fit well as the backside is flat without the arc the original has at the front. Are you using headliner material that has a foam backing?

Sorry, I didn't give you a heads up on that, there's another headliner post I got confused with.

I'm very familiar with the headliners as I'm making a mold to produce fiberglass and carbon fiber ttop headliner replacements. I saw the need for this as the abs ones are so crappy.

Getting close to finished, can't wait to make the first one.
Btw, also making door sills soon.

pontiacdog

No, it doesn't have a foam backing. It's just upholstered plastic.

Should I try to put some foam in there? I'm afraid it will look rather uneven if I just shove a big piece of foam between the plastic and the ceiling, as I'm not really the artistic type.

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

Not between the headliner and body, but specific "headliner upholstery" comes with the fabric bonded to 1/8" foam. This allows it to conform better to the backing and integrates better to the parts attached on top of it, such as the console. If you just have plain fabric, I would suggest redoing it with headliner material. You could probably just go over the other fabric.

pontiacdog

Is there any quick way to do it without redoing the upholstery?

I paid over 500 bucks for this headliner in total, so it would feel wrong to just rebuild half of it. And considering that this product was meant to fit in cars with an overhead console.

pontiacdog

This guy installed the same headliner (even though mine is not a T-top) without having any gap between the headliner and the console:
http://www.iroczone.com/2009/10/inst...irdgen-f-body/

I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. I was wondering if my overhead console even fits properly but it looks fine to me, I don't think it's supposed to be any closer to the body: (picture here)
http://aijaa.com/9kkTpE

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

Found your problem, thanks for the pic.
You have the wrong overhead console. The one you have is for a hardtop, notice how flat the one in the article is, where yours is angled. Maybe someone will swap with you.

pontiacdog

My car is a hardtop so I guess it should be the right console.

The ceiling is just black because there used to be rust that I took care of with rust convert.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...types-side.jpg
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...ht=top+console

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

Ah, ok, I'm getting mixed up in the threads again.
Yes, your overhead console won't fit. Others here have used the ttop overhead console to make it fit.
Yes, the old headliners outer surface is much farther from the ceiling than the new one is because they molded from the backside, which you can see has a completely different contour than the front side. The ridge on the back of the original headliner, which is now the ridge on the front side is more similar to the ttop roof so some have used the ttop console to make it fit. It doesn't fit perfectly still, but much closer.
Hope this helps.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

You need to start over and take your time.did your console have the gaps before you decided to get the ABS??
Did you install the mounting screws high enough to lock in the console??
You do have the right console for a hardtop,you should not be having the problems you are having

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry you are incorrect, manta guy, the two headliners are very different shape.

to the OP:
post a pic of the original and the abs replacements, the truth of what i say will be clear.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

You could be right,but I've never seen anyone have the trouble's he having.
Maybe they sent him the wrong one!!!

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

Here's just one of many posts detailing the many problems with the abs headliners.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...headliner.html

pontiacdog

No, it was perfect. I decided to get a new headliner because the original started to sag. But there were no gaps.

Yeah, I checked that as well.

Thanks for the link, stealtht/a. I can now see that it's definitely a bad product. I probably should've taken my car to a professional upholstery shop to begin with.

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

If you still have the original headliner, recover it or have an upholstery shop do it. Hard top headliners are easy to recover. Even if it's broken, they are easy to fix with fiberglass resin. There are no better replacements available.

Part of the problem with these headliners is that there is poor feedback from the community on how bad they are, so people keep getting suckered into buying them. Many members are embarrassed they spent so much money on a crappy product so they don't post pics of the poor fit and say "it fits ok" . Then when people press them, the whole story comes out. "It's not quite big enough","sags in the heat","rattles on the roof" and of course, it doesn't fit the overhead consoles.
I hadn't realized how bad they are until I pulled a couple from some parts cars and compared them to originals. As I also just started making composite parts for cars, I could see the problems with how they molded it. Since I also need ttop headliners for my cars, I decided to make some.
If you have an original ttop headliner, it's very easy to repair it even if it's in many pieces, as long as you fabric cover it. Making more than one requires a mold and I found out why the abs manufacturers took the easy way out, this is by far the most difficult mold I have made. I have a huge amount if hours in making the plug and then even more finishing the mold. Still have a little more work to go, but should be done soon. I'll run one or 2 with basic fiberglass and epoxy to start, then some fancier ones with colored fabrics and carbon fiber. I'm using a vaccum bagging process for best weight and strength. The carbon fiber ones will be Kevlar reinforced so they don't explode in an accident. Should weigh just about nothing. I will be sure to let everyone know when some are available.

pontiacdog

I still have the original headliner but it's in pieces and has suffered some water damage so it's very brittle and turns to dust when you touch it.
Perhaps it could be recovered (by someone else, not me). And if someone makes a new mold that is perfect, I'm definitely interested even though shipping to Europe will most likely cost a fortune.

By the way, is there a way to attach the original clips to the abs headliner?
Stuffing some foam between the body and the headliner makes the console fit better but it makes the headliner sag a lot near the windshield.
I'll try to post pics of my experiments tomorrow.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

{Part of the problem with these headliners is that there is poor feedback from the community on how bad they are, so people keep getting suckered into buying them. Many members are embarrassed they spent so much money on a crappy product so they don't post pics of the poor fit and say "it fits ok"}
Mine came out OK!!!

White93z34

iTrader: (1)

I have one. Bought it from 1A Auto but I'm pretty sure they are all made by the same company, They were nice and sent me colour samples so I could get the best match.

As far as it goes, cutting out the hole for my overhead console SUCKED, worst part about it.

After that it fit pretty well for an aftermarket part. Colour is off just a touch compared to my speaker covers and sunvisors, but at 27 years old they are probably a bit faded or not quite what they were in 1987.

Only real "flaw" I had with mine, and it was probably my fault is behind one of the seatbelt guides there is a gap, that you can only see if you are sitting in the back seat. I could have probably prevented it, but whatever.

Its a bit of a bugger to fit just right, you NEED to budget a lot of time for it. And the overhead console for sure helps keep it up. But I did mine just over a year ago now, and I got this part summer of driving with the tops off, it held up just fine.

So bottom line:
does it fit as good as OE? No.
would I buy it again? all day long