NiG

hi allo

I made those two ugly videos to ask you if you notice something wrong about my steering gear, which seems no completely fixed to me.
I think it's moving when I rotate the steering wheel. Is it normal? Perhaps the screws are not fixed?



Thank you very much!!

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

In the first vid it almost looks like the shaft to the pitman arm is wobbling or even bent.Hard to tell, maybe its just the angle.If it is, maybe try adjusting it up top or a rebuild.
The 2nd vid, it looks like the whole steering box is moving.Could be its loose or worse the frame is cracked around the bolts.Should probably check those mounting points on the frame (This is somewhat common on these cars, unfortunately).

You should move this to the suspension topic instead of interior.Might get more replies.

naf

iTrader: (7)

pull the box and examine the mounting points behind it

NiG

I'm really worried right now

Is it usefull to say that my car can't go straight? I always have to adjust with the steering wheel. Perhaps it's an improper wheel alignment, or can it be a metal damage? What should I check?

thanks

FirebirdUSX

Something tells me that's related to https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...all-joint.html

And no you should not be that worried...you can fix the mounting points.The car normally pulls to a side when it needs alignment .

NiG

yeah my car pulls to a side, it has always done that. We aligned it, but the steering had play so a precise aligment was impossible.
I'm just hoping that this pulling to a side behaviour is not related to the video I posted, and finally to some metal crack/failure.

I dont wanna think the ballhoint failure is related... I could kill my mechanic.

Is it that serious if the metal somehow cracked? Repairable without buying the new chassis parts?

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

As mentioned before, remove the steering box & check for cracks on the frame.Most can be welded to correct the issue.Ive done one on a friends T/A.It wasn't very difficult to fix.
Also look into getting a wonder bar.These were an option on Irocs, but will fit your car as well.Might just go aftermarket while your at it, TDS has the best one in my opinion.

The wonder bar was specifically added to remedy the stress cracking from the steering loads placed on the frame rail.

Another item to check (& upgrade) is the rag joint, not visible cause you still have the shield in place, but if you remove it you may find your rag joint has seen better days.Most upgrade to a U-joint from the astro vans.This upgrade will help with your alignment/pulling.

FirebirdUSX

sorry but I totally understand that
Don't worry after you fix that you just do an alignment and you will be ok.

You just have to weld the holes....any repair shop can do it ,heck you can probably do it yourself.What I don't know is why 84 LE said its common problem ...he scared the living crap out of me ,I now have to check my car for the same problem.

The only cracks in the body I know of are the ones on hardtops at the window corners /b pillars and even those are easy to fix.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Somewhat common actually.About the same as body cracks on the window corner.

NiG

hello

We checked again the car, without removing the steering great. There is NO visible cracks at all. We watched meticulously. We even tried to pull the whole car from the pitman arm, then from me the center link and then from the support triangle, and everything is very very firm.

If you have one min, you can check this other two new videos:


and two more pictures:


Yeah, after reading this I went to this http://www.top-downsolutions.com/ste...or-firebird-(a
Seems a pretty nice part for the price! Does it really improve also the steering performance?

Well, we checked them also. Seems that the rag joint is ok, but this one not:



it produces a small play. With the engine off you can even rotate the steering wheel using the tip of one finger by 1-2 degree, without rotating the wheels of course. They told me that this is a lag from that part. I think it is still stock from 1989. Is it hard to change it? What is its name?

----

Since the car pushes to the right, we manually tried to adjust the tie ends after noticing this:



now the car goes almost straight, but the steering wheel is constantly rotated byt 3-4 degrees ... So annoying


I thought that 3rd gen had a cool handling, but this car is driving me crazy!!



Do you have a pictures to show the precise position you mean?
thanks!

naf

iTrader: (7)

remove the steering box and inspect the frame behind it.

redneckjoe

i had some "slop" or movement in my wheel. i traced it down to the through bolt on the steering shaft. it was tight, but as i had somebody move the wheel back and forth, i could see it wasnt fully tightening down. i used a pipe over a ratchet to get leverage and carefully tightened it up til it clamped down on the double D bar on the steering shaft. all movement and slop was eliminated. hope its something that simple for you.

NiG

I will see if I can have the steering box removed without spending more money

I've just purchased the wonder bar.

Do you mean the rag joint??

redneckjoe

Do you mean the rag joint??[/QUOTE]

no. see the red circle in the picture, in post #10? its the bolt right at the top of the red circle. have somebody jiggle the steering wheel back and forth, and see if theres any play in there. if so, tighten the nut and bolt REALLY tight and see if the play goes away.

naf

iTrader: (7)

why would it possibly cost money? It's three 15mm bolts and a frame brace, if so equipped, that will need to be moved for access.

you may be able to loosen the three bolts and pull it out far enough to examine the rail behind it. certainly no need to remove the pitman arm.

FirebirdUSX

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...eet-metal.html

Don;t worry yours is T top os it won't get that problem.


and that problem was not caused by the pin incident awhile ago I am the pope

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

The stress applied to the driver frame rail just by normal steering is enough to crack the frame rail sometimes.The wonder bars purpose is to transfer some of those steering forces to the passenger frame rail.So both sides of the frame share the load, minimizing or eliminating cracks.

Its a good idea to upgrade your steering shaft to u-joints.Especially if you still have the original in the car.There is a thread on the forum & MC87SS sells them too.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ing-shaft.html

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Can I also point out that his steering box is moving as the wheels turn. And this is happening with the front wheels in the air.

Which means that the wheels themselves during the video, are applying any torque to the frame because they have nothing to push against.

On the ground with traction the movement would be significantly worse.

Really, OP, you need to pull that steering box and look at the frame behind it.

NiG

yeah, actually there is a play right there, we already noticed that! Thanks, I'll try to tighten that nut!


yeah, that's a good idea. The problem is that the mechanic had some difficulties to keep the steering gear firmely fixed. It tended to move because the nuts didnt wanna stay firm. The put a "material" to keep the nuts firm (dunno the english name). So right now I'm worried about asking him to unscrew it again I'll ask anyway, thanks for the advice!!

lool
nice article! Actually, if a hardtop car exibit the problem, why a weaker ttop should not? Im more scared now

yeah, got it. The more I read everywhere about this topic, the more I understand the importante of the wonder bar. So question is: why didnt they put it by default at least on top level cars (TA or GTA) ???
I look forward to receive mine. Ordered that yesterdeay.

No sir, the car was still and on the ground on every video. I would be really scared if the steering gear moved that way with tires on air
Ill try to check it anyway

---

I'll have another question for which I was thinking to open a new topic. I'll be brief. It happens always, not at low speed (say over 50mph), that I do a street "curve" (hope it's correct in english) and I feel the car like rolling. Yeah, that's the feeling: a roll movement on its longitudinal axis. The car does not feel firmly glued to the street, nor precise. It kinda tends to roll and subtly swing from left to right and viceversa. Well, it doesnt slip, I dont wanna say that, but it kinda has this lateral movements. It's a small but noticeable movement for me.
I have an italian car (alfa romeo) and it's so precise and this behaviour is totally absent.

Could this be related to the issue I'm describing on this topic?
any advice?

thanks guys !!




thank you all

redneckjoe

on your other question about roll,...do you have a rear sway bar installed?

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

That's a good question.One can only guess why GM didn't install them in all f-bodies.

FirebirdUSX

The T Top cars have a piece of plastic on the door that sits on the door jamb when you close the door.If you open the door you will see it close to the weatherstripping .Also the obvious reason the roof doesn't crack is simple...there is no roof

Also subframe connectors are nice on these cars.They not only stop the body flex but also the safety in a crash .I think everyone on this site has them installed.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

No, some of us still have them sitting in our closet yet to be installed!

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

It shipped today.

Thanks,

Lon

NiG

yeah of course. Stock.

Do you have a picture of that? I didn understand.
Yeah but ttop have no roof, so they are weaker. Not good

Not bad, but they weigths so much for me. Those cars are not that powerfull, so I wouldn't add much weigth unless you go over 250hp. That's my personal point of view.


You're the owner? Thanks Hoe that wonder bar will improve both the strength, but the steering precision/handling also

FirebirdUSX

The door is the structure that keeps the car rigid.When people say the car is flexing they mean it for the engine torque.These cars are damn stiff compared to what we see in Europe but they have torquy engines .If you'd install a V8 on a Renault you'd twist the entire body.... guess that's why they don't sell those things in US

You see I don't think people in US can even grasp the concept of driving something with 110nm torque :lol
Check the pic to see the plastic thingy (no idea how its called ).

You do realize that body flex "steals" power right? The car will accelerate better with them, some even say it improves the fuel efficiency .It will also stop squeaking .

What stops you from installing them?Those are the most simple and best upgrade for these cars.If you are OCD about your car you can even make them (weld ) to look stock .

NiG

Didn't know that the door keeps the structure rigid.

I can believe that subframe connectors can improve the fuelage by having the car more rigid. But will this lower the comfort also? Besides, how much will it improve the fuelage, by 2% ?

FirebirdUSX

If you take the door panel off you will see a thick steel bar.That's for side impact and to keep the car rigid when the door is closed.They thought that you don't drive the car without doors.There is a very good reason why the doors are so heavy plus if you want to impress your mechanic show him how much steel is inside that door....trust me there are not many cars with so much reinforcement in the doors.

You don't want comfort offered by body flex.Get some new shocks if you don't like the stiff suspension but don't get your comfort from the body flex

I don't think you can count it by % .Depends how you drive it.If you like to accelerate fast and feel the torque you will need less acceleration to get the same effect on you.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Because the previous owners off-roader the car or something. The pinch rails are folded up against the body. I've tried straightening them out on jack stands and nearly dropped the car onto myself. So I gave up. I need to take it to a shop with a drive on lift so that they can be straightened. Then they can be welded. They are Spohn Tubular style so not so easy to weld.

greenyone

iTrader: (1)

Build some crib blocks out of wood. No more worrying about dropping a car on yourself. I straitened out my pinch rails and installed sub-frame connectors easily while up on the blocks. Makes working on anything under the car that does not involve removing the wheels a pleasurable working experience over jack stands.

prossi

NiG the wonder bar will not fix this issue. This will happen even without the frame being cracked especially if you are using wider tires. I am currently working on something that will alleviate this problem.