SmokinZ28

Anyone know what turbo's came on the powerstroke turbodiesels, for that matter also on the cummings engines? (all the ford sites I can find don't say what turbos are on them ) Would a pair be sufficent to suppost 700-800 HP? Starting a JY TT project and I know where a couple of these are sitting. Already got my donar header's (free)

B4Ctom1

here is a search list of your exact subject beat to death and rejected on this board over and over: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sea...der=descending

SmokinZ28

Been there tried that, the answer to my question is not there, nor found after searching webcrawler for a few hours. Guess I'll rephrase, I can figure out question 2 if someone gives me the answer to question 1. Does anyone know exactly what type of turbo, make and model, came on a powerstroke or cummings engine?

B4Ctom1

WTF!!!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT IT SAYS ALL OVER THOSE POSTS THAT DIESEL TURBOS ARE A NO-NO!!!! THEY ARE TOO BIG, THE A/R IS ALL WRONG, IT MIGHT WORK WITH ONE IF YOU RUN A 500 CID ENGINE AT 9000 RPM THEN IT MIGHT ONLY MAKE 10# BOOST!!!

sleepybu

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=2

You can use diesel turbos but you'll have to use a external wastgate cuz they are set at 20-40lbs.You can tur it down but will have magor boost creep.

SmokinZ28

Don't be an ***, I'm not a stupid kid. You have no idea what my application will be. If they're big then I'll do a single. That's why I wanted to know the make of a turbo so I could find the appropriate information from the manufacturer. And for your info yeah, it's gonna be a big ol' 468 in a 73 nova. Not gonna spin to 9K, more like 7 but close enough.

SmokinZ28

sleepybu, thanks... I'll look through there and see if I can find anything

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Powerstrokes should have their wastegatest set in the mid teens...

Depending on the year and application they used different turbos. Most of the ones that people call ‘powerstroke turbos’ starting in the mid ‘90’s or so were either TP38’s or GTP38’s. You’ll never get 7-800hp out of one (good for about 600 tops if your pressure ratio is high enough), but with 2 it would put you right in the sweet spot of the compressor maps if the engine is able to ingest enough air to do it at a pressure ratio of about 1.8-2.4… Unless you’ve got a really inefficient engine (awful heads…) you should be able to do that by 4500 or so rpm and you’d be running out of breath at around 5500rpm or earlier (cam it accordingly).

The second problem is that the turbines on them are pretty big. The smaller of the 2 most commonly available turbines will spool slowly on a 5L engine (single turbo), so I’d really doubt that you’ll have enough exhaust to get 2 of them to spool well on that 468 before you run out of flow on the compressor side.…

Older powerstrokes got an assortment of T04’s (don’t know which ones off hand) and the new 6L powerstroke actually gets a larger Garret then the GTP38 (I don’t know of anyone that has seen a map but it is supposed to pump substantially more air).

BTW, all the powerstrokes used a powerstroke specific flange that incorporates the oil inlet and outlet… you’ll have to fabricate something to work in it’s place.

sleepybu

The 7.3 ps got big turbos and do have a hokey oil system. They also turn backwards. The new 6Ls use a vnt turbo. I'd just put one till you learned how to tune a turbo system.
2 holset hx40s from a cummims might do it.

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/...s=&threadid=46

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Geeze, a single HX40 would push enough air to make 700hp... go with twin Hx35's and you'll still have enough turbo to push 1000hp or more, they're easier to find (cummings dodge trucks) and should spool well on that engine... probably be my choice for twins on something that size.

JAY87GTA

I've seen a Powerstroke boost to 17 PSI, and that was no load behind the truck. So they may go higher than that with a load. I'm not sure where they are wastgated at, I've personally never seen it. One thing to keep in mind with the new 6.0 Powerstroke turbo is that it's an electrically controlled turbo, with variable pitch on the intake impeller to make better boost at lowend on the diesel.

SmokinZ28

Thanks guys, this is exactly what I'm looking for

ATOMonkey

Actually it's on the turbine housing, and they were boost limited based on fuel injected. The miracle of lean burn technology. Everything everyone else said was true. They are Garrett based and changed yearly, sometimes more than once a year, so it's impossible to know for sure. There should be PNs stamped on the inside of the compressor housing. I can't remember if it's a garrett or Nav PN though. The hot sides are generally sized smaller because of the lean burn again, you don't need good scavenging and sometimes you don't want it for emissions. If you call International/Navistar or garrett and pretend you're a customer you should be able to get the PN translated.

Just remember engines are engines and flow is flow. Physics doesn't care what kind of fuel you burn or how big your engine is.

350tbi

turbo's are designed for a specific applications, a diesel turbo is a bad idea, you don't have the compression to run them, end of discussion, I'm not going to go into AR ratios or housing sizes or the science, cause I don't completely understand it. The amount of engineering that goes into designing a turbine wheel is incrediable that why garret keeps numbers secret. It may seem like a good idea, but for a gasoline car stick with a turbo designed for it, try two grand national turbos on a 428 if you are serious that would haul. not enough get them clipped. But if you have a motor that can handle that power chances are that you will have the $$ to talk to garret or turbonetics and find some nice ball bearing turbo's sized up right.

sleepybu

That last statement makes me want to go out and prove to you that it can be done. hehe

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

That about sums it up...

airflow is airflow, as long as you pick parts with the appropriate sizes it doesn’t make a difference what they were originally used on. The T04’s that are used on most larger gasoline engine turbo installs were mostly originally used on diesel farm tractors and heavy equipment. Most of the ‘large frame’ turbos sold by turbonetics, PT… started out on even larger diesel engines and some aircraft (usually T06 and T08 compressor sides with T04 exhaust sides). The T3’s that everyone seems to be using (as well as many OEM’s) were originally used on smaller diesel automotive engines.

ME Leigh

Not to mention that all Superchargers originally were for diesels, then somebody figured out you can put the on gas engines!! Go figure!!

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Well, I’d argue with that. Roots blowers originally started as scavenging (exhaust) pumps on 2 stroke diesels, there are setups that have them on the exhaust side and a turbo on the intake side. A lot of superchargers were designed for gas engines… the whole Eaton line, most centrifugal blowers…

ME Leigh

Yes but Centrifugal blowers are just belt driven turbos. I'm talking about real superchargers the roots type, 14-71~4-71, originally for diesels.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Not really, the wheels used in turbos are not efficient at the rpm’s that most superchargers spin at, you’d need a VERY large turbo compressor to make any significant boost with a belt + gear drive. Secondly, the rest of the assembly is very different, there is no way to get the fully and semi-floating bearings used in turbos to work with a side load like a belt or gear drive. One of the older Vortechs could be traced back to a turbo design, but most, if not all of the rest were original designs specific to the supercharger application which use a special reverse curved impeller which allows for greater efficiency at lower boost and rpm (remember, most turbos are most efficient at 20-45psig boost at sea level). If you tried to use one of these in a turbo it would fly apart since the specific design is not considered rigid enough for use in turbos (there are reverse curved turbo compressors but they’re slightly different)

WRT to the original GMC blowers, I believe that they were only available as a 4-71, 6-71 and 8-71, the larger cases were actually aftermarket/performance market custom made parts. Again, the original blower weren’t actually used as blowers but as scavenging pumps (think big vacuum pump that sucks the exhaust out of the engine). Another interesting fact is that there is a 2-71 (actually not called that but would be if it followed the rest of the GMC naming scheme) and the 4-71 that are used in industrial vacuums, like the ones that they use in steam cleaning and duct cleaning vans…

B4Ctom1

the first supercharger called a supercharger was actually on a P-38 lightning airplane. It certainly wasnt diesel powered although there were diesel powered german and russian aircraft during WWII I understand. This "supercharger" was so top secret that when we sold the P-38's to the Brits they were incensed by the omission of this critical part. The germans were very perturbed by this device and decided to go with nitrous. this "supercharger" item was argueably a turbocharger because several veteran P-38 mechanics told me it was driven by the exhaust instead of the crank. It may have been a PTO in the exhaust system driving it.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

If you get down to splitting hairs, all compressors feeding air to an engine will be superchargers. All a turbocharger is is a exhaust turbine powered supercharger, abreviated turbocharger

ozzga

kinda off topic but the germans had a two stage supercharged engine in the Bf 109B in 1937, the lightning wasn't put into service till 1941.

Dan91Z

so what do you all think about a T04E14 turbo off a 7.8l ford diesel with maybe a t3 exhaust housing on a 305?

ATOMonkey

It'll spool really fast. You'll be able to make some serious low end power, but the engine will strangle at the top. You'll also have to limit your boost or you'll hit the surge line real quick.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

as a single? It'll be too small on both sides. I'd bet that any T3 exhaust that you try will keep a 305 from revving over 4K...

Dan91Z

double post

B4Ctom1

I have looked through this post and not seen one single A/R listed, what kind of A/R are we talking about here on these diesel turbos (A/R for both exhaust and intake) ?

Dan91Z

I won't have it til monday, so all i have is the part numbers which don't seem to help me much. When i get it I'll start measuring. There dosen't seem to be any information about the turbos that came on the 7.8 litre brazillian ford diesels on the net :-(

Dan91Z

B4Ctom1, the exhaust a/r is 1.06 and the intake a/r is .70

2000_Eclipse_GT

Diesel turbos are too big??? WTF???
Some of the 2.3 Turbo Stang guys I know are getting ready to run Holset HX-35's on their 2.3's. One of the guys already is! These are the stock turbos from the cummins turbo diesel's....

here is 2 links of a turbo 2.3!
ALL JUNKYARD PARTS basically....
if a 2.3 can spool one of these a 305 can for SURE!
http://msvorinich.itgo.com/
http://msvorinich.itgo.com/Jan0703.html

the 2nd one is a jump right to the HX35

sleepybu

somebody on http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/ is running a hx35 on a 302

Dan91Z

the turbine is 1.00 a/r, on the outside of the turbine it looks almost like 1.06, the marking on the inside is alot clearer :-)

after measuring it it seems to be the exact size for the T04E 50 Trim for the compressor.

here's at 9 lbs on that map. blue is 5000 rpm, pink is 4000, orange is 3000, red is 2000

Lurker

Not to be an ***, but,, LMAO

Did you decide to make that up all by your self?

I have no doubt in my mind that a 8:1 compression 305 will spool twin HX35's NO PROBLEM. Full boost would be around 10-25 psi of boost @ ~3200 rpm, depending on the external wastegate used.

B4Ctom1

We exceeded his bandwidth, thats a bummer because he needs to get it back up I suggested him to car craft as a featured project car.

2000_Eclipse_GT

hahaha I dont think he ever planned on that much traffic. But that guys knows his ****. right now he is working on a twincam Volvo head for the 2.3! Should be one sweet *** motor! I am not sure what to think of a 2.3 Twincam Hx35 intercooled Ford motor.... Yikes!

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

FWIW, nothing that he's doing is all that new.

One of Mike Sitar's buddies did that turbo swap on a 2.3 turbo mustang at least a year or so ago, and also added an eaton M62 to aid in spooling.

The volvo head swap has been around for years. The hardest part is that one of the head bolts is in a different location, pretty much everything else is bolt on.

2000_Eclipse_GT

I know it has been around for years...
the Volvo head swap is inspired by the 3 prototypes of Twincam 2.3 turbos that ford made. I also know that the turbo has been done before. But He is putting it all together and doing a good job of it. Look at the site sometime.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Yea, I've been archiving the site for a while, and I do have his latest updates, about popping the seam on the intercooler, getting the Holset installed...

2000_Eclipse_GT

lol yeah he blew that weld on his custom intercooler... did a pretty good job! hahaha
He is cool guy!

B4Ctom1

Ive been corresponding with him through email he was affraid to post because he is ford I told him dont sweat it, his whole project is too cool to be dogged or flamed by any *** here.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Hey, I don't think that anyone would give him crap on this forum. Hell, my first car was a cougar XR7 (2.3 turbo + 5 speed), and I loved that car.

I've thought about getting a 2.3turbo powered car as a daily driver, the ones like my cougar actually had nice interiors, fairly comfy, good for road trips and could pull down 36mpg...

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Oh yea, and beat a lot of 3rd gens at the track

2000_Eclipse_GT

Hey MikeSVOR join on in man... I am 89stang from stangnet.com


hahaha list of cars reads like a used car lot!
89 Camaro RS
89 2.3 LX Coupe auto
88 Mitsubishi Cordia L
91 Eagle Talon ESI

think we killed your site mike.. hahaha sorry man....

But yeah anyway sweet *** setup on his 2.3T If he can do that with a 2.3 I am sure some of you guys can do that with a 305 or 350.....

oh and mike what are you gonna do about your I/C just reweld it? Or did more damage accure???

89ProchargedROC

LoL...you people like to make a lot of assumptions

HP Performance is using Holset turbos exclusively in their turbo kits for mustangs and with their base 60mm turbo in their base street kit it put down 634rwhp and went 10.3. When compared to Turbonetics 60mm turbo it only went 10.6

i was contemplating using a pair of these in my motor but they wont fit with my gale bank manifolds.

their information is on turbomustangs.com home page

rx7speed

the t04b is a common upgrade for the rx7

and in street form I have seen them run t-88's


but then again the exhuast pulses in the rotary are a lot stronger then a piston motor as well as having a higher heat... 1800*


how would a twin T-60 work?

Mike SVOR

Hey all. just reading through.

I like the comment that says a Holset is too big for a V8. hehe



Mike SVOR

2000_Eclipse_GT

Damn he joined in!!! hahaha
Glad to see ya joined the party...
any updates on that stang???

B4Ctom1

welcome mike!