ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

I don't see an edit button under my posts anymore. I wanted to update some parts I have for sale in the mid atlantic swap meet board... guess I'll wait and see if it "fixes itself."

JT

iTrader: (1)

How long ago was the post you created that you're trying to edit?

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

maybe a year, but it has been edited within the past few months. I also looked at a post from a week ago in the power adder section... no edit button. the post in this thread has an edit button.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

im having the same problem

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Same issue; The original post was a classified add on 9-22-07.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exte...-canister.html

Another strange example is a post first created on 7-26-07. There are no Edit buttons displaued in the first 4 updates I made to this thread. But I added another update today and that post DOES SHOW the Edit button.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exte...camaro-ss.html


The program is recognizing me since it shows the edit button in my last post - so why will it not allow me to edit the earlier posts ?? I'm not sure if this makes a difference - but the "COOKIES" were cleaned off my PC about a week ago !

Phatfiddler

iTrader: (8)

Bumping this thread. I cant edit a post I made just 3 days ago in the Parts For Sale section.

JT

iTrader: (1)

After a few days, you will not be able to edit posts. This is something we changed over a month ago. There are only a few good reasons why members would need to edit a post after X amount of days have passed. In those cases, please contact a moderator or myself and we can edit your post if it is necessary. Unfortunately, to be blunt, abuse was the main reason why this change was made. Frankly, I doubt you will find many other message forums that allow you to edit posts *weeks*,*months* or *years* later, such as TGO previous did. I don't think it should have been an option to begin with. Although there are some cases where there is a legit reason to edit a post days later (such as technical content, or legitimately updating a classifieds post) that simply isn't strong enough to allow a globally limitless window to edit posts.

bigj350

iTrader: (1)

I have been having the same problem. I have also noticed when I am switching pages it logs me off sometimes too.
----------
It happens to me right after I post. Thats about same time I notice I am not logged in anymore (thats why I can't edit) Its only happened a few time.

JT

iTrader: (1)

This would be a separate issue. As you hinted, you cannot edit your own post if you're not logged in. So that explains part of your issue.

The other part of your issue, is going to be a cookie related issue. Since you do not appear to be using AOL or a proxy, I suggest you delete your ThirdGen.org cookies that your browser uses. That will likely resolve the issue. If that doesn't, you may be using some type of 3rd party software that is blocking or deleting the cookie.

Phatfiddler

iTrader: (8)

JT. The post I'm trying to edit/update is a classifieds post with about 20 parts for sale. I need to place a "SOLD" next to items that are gone so that I may stop receiving inquiries about them. Who should I PM about doing this when certain items are sold?

Thanks,
John

JT

iTrader: (1)

Only moderators of the forum where the post resides can edit posts, or Administrators such as myself.

Although I do not think the majority edit their posts, or even really updated them as to the status, this probably isn't totally case-closed, as I'm considering ideas how to make this work better for us. But unfortunately, a limitless editing window on all posts will not be an option any further.

So if you can't just update the thread with a reply, you can contact the moderator of the forum or myself to make changes that are necessary.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

This has turned into a significant issue for me........

In the past I would post pictures and images for everything from parts for sale to technical repair procedures where pictures helped to explain the process. I would always place my images on my own web host server in an effort to save ThirdGen some server space.

I can no longer edit (remove ) images that I place in my posts and as a result I have exceeding my allowed Transfer usage for the past 2 months. That costs me $$ because I'm charged a "penalty" for this infraction. I traced the problem back here after reviewing what images were causing the transfer overage. I can simply remove the pictures from my Webserver creating little "X" boxes all over the forums - which I have already started to do. But it does make a difference when it comes to writing technical procedures and the pictures I use to help describe / explain things.

I realize that my web host transfer overage is not the problem for you guys at ThirdGen,.... But from here out I will no longer be placing images from my own Webspace on these forums. I will be adding content DIRECTLY to the ThirdGen Servers. In the past it was recommended to use our own webspace to help reduce the amount of storage needed By ThirdGen...... removing the ability to update / edit old threads has caused me to abandon that process, and that will increase the amount of storage space I consume. I will now be posting images as "attachments" and I will no longer be able to remove those attachments.

Not a big deal for a individual member like me - but how many members does this site have ??

If I may ask - what type of abuse was found ?? Have the rules changed due to a couple of infractions by a select few ? Basically I'm asking if you have changed the "rules" based on the exception to the norm ??

To put a lighter tone on this; It seems to be the same situation I'm seeing everywhere these days,.... Like a kid with a Peanut allergy. One kid has an allergy and as a result no one can bring Peanut Butter to school anymore !


Even if I thought removing the ability to edit posts was warrented ( & I DON'T !! ) 3 days is WAY TO SHORT of a time frame to disallow editing of any post IMO.

JT

iTrader: (1)

How many times does the few ruin it for the majority? Unfortunately, that is life. Not only is it nearly impossible to predict one's actions, but it's also difficult to selectively enforce this edit issue on those accounts.

Sorry, but to be frank, you're not exactly in the position to make a call about it not being warranted. 3 days is not too short in the least. Go to any other major forum and see that some range from not being able to edit posts at all, to few minutes, to a few hours. 3 days is plenty of time for a member to edit their post, for legitimate reasons.

Yes, it does pose some inconvenience for classifieds and technical articles. Both can be addressed by contacting a moderator, and the latter cases aren't exactly everyday occurrences. In fact, so far, the requests have been minimal and this edit policy has been in place for a while now.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Your right - details of are not forthcoming and I never saw a notice explaining the policy change. After reading though this thread it appears that you yourself were also unaware of the change until after it was made. What could the worst be - Changing the price of a classified, removing previous threats made against members ? Since the ability to edit post was a long standing option here at TGO,..... I can't see the reasoning for the change - that's all.

As for my own experience I have put a more than a couple hours into resolving the issues caused by this policy change - I'm not about to ask an moderator to put that kind of time into it.

My point here is that IMO exceptions should be dealt with as exceptions, That way those of us that like ( and don't abuse ) Peanut butter can still eat peanut butter sandwiches at lunchtime !

JT

iTrader: (1)

Honestly, I was aware because I was one of the people behind the changes. This was discussed between the staff, too.

That in of itself is not a good reason. By comparison, the ability to post HTML inside posts here was also a long standing option. That probably should not have been an option to begin with, and once again, you will find a lot of other forums that don't allow HTML.


The PB analogy really isn't accurate or fitting here. An analogy about all people having to follow the same security procedures/screening when shopping or flying is more fitting. The majority aren't the problem, but they are affected.

I'm sorry, but as it sits, the limitless window for editing posts will not be coming back. Besides the two cases I mentioned, there is not a good enough reason(s) to allow a limitless window for editing posts, in addition to the issues that come with that "option". As I said, none of us can predict the future and what members do. It may be a slight inconvenience, but it is for the best. I'm trying to keep in mind what is best for the community as a whole. I do not believe the majority of our users have the need to have a limitless window for editing their past posts.

PS, in regard to you supplying images from your own webserver, then going back and removing them, have you thought about the future? Assuming you was providing technical help and supplying a picture for reference, how does that help the people in the future searching the forums when they cannot see the image? In fact that is often a compliant I field, because members think it's a problem on TGO's end when they see a red X in place of the image that they needed to assist with their situation, when in fact it's because the image was remotely linked at the time, and now it's no longer available.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

An analogy to security screening for passenger aircraft is ???? I think you understand the point I was trying to make.


Yes,...... My Classified adds will now contain message "attachments" as will my Technical posts that will not be able to be deleted and will take up more space on the Third Gen servers as previously explained. These images will be of significantly less quality and lower resolution due to the file size restrictions placed on attachments.

The problem I had was "past tense",...... I had to go back to move/manipulate files that were causing transfer overages because I could no longer edit my previous posts. In the future the Burdon will be placed on the ThirdGen servers,...

JT

iTrader: (1)

Everyone has to go through the main security screener, not just "suspects" or people who have already done something. Just like all shoppers must pass through a device (if present) that takes "inventory". Like those cases, you cannot possible know what the person is going to do. Once done, the damage is already done. Yes, we do regular backups, but that is not a good option for this.

The attachments are currently limited, and have been for some time now, to 1MB in size. I hardly think a 1MB photo is of bad quality and low resolution.

TGO is currently hosting about 10 gigabytes worth of attachments. When you factor in all of the members, the amount of activity, and the amount of years attachments has been available, I don't consider 10 gigabytes to be exactly a big deal, in my small opinion. 10 gigabytes worth of photos and other misc files is not really significant in today's digital world.

I'm sorry, but so far, you have not made a compelling argument for consideration.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Let me clarlfy...... Lower quality and lower resolution.



And if I did - would that really matter JT !

JT

iTrader: (1)

And let me clarify, you do not need over 1MB to provide an image that is beyond good to supplement your post. I just looked through some of your past posts where you are hot linking your images, and so far, none of them are even a half of 1MB. Lower quality and lower resolution than what? Sure, maybe there are some cases, but so far, I'm not seeing anything overwhelming to support your claim.

I have yet to lock this thread despite the fact it's basically some venting going on and so far no compelling reasons have been given to make any type of reconsideration or adjustment. I didn't expect it to be the best received change, to the select few cases and members who would have a problem with this.

By the way, what do you do on other websites that don't let you edit your message, or have some low time frame of like 2 minutes to a few hours? Many of the forums have some limit on editing, for very good reasons.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Yes, My hot linked images are smaller. You might have missed this : "As for my own experience I have put a more than a couple hours into resolving the issues caused by this policy change " Or this: "The problem I had was "past tense",...... I had to go back to move/manipulate files that were causing transfer overages because I could no longer edit my previous posts. In the future the burden will be placed on the ThirdGen servers,..." I don't believe that removing them altogether is a better option than reducing their size so I am not continuously charged for the transfer overages.

I realize that my effort and expense over the last month to resolve this matter is not your concern. I would have expected that - as an administrator - you would be more receptive to the problems to your members that were caused by a un-announced change in policy. Rather than simply accepting the fact that the removal of editing posts is a problem for some of us,..... you seem content to simply challenge everything that I write. ( you even challenged my light-hearted remarks about peanut butter for Pete's sake ! )



Your severs can handle the extra storage - cool. There's no longer a need to use out own server space - cool. We can still edit out posts - cool. So Be it; the thread if your not interested in the input.

JT

iTrader: (1)

If I challenge what you write, it's because you appear to want information and to have things reverted back. It doesn't happen like that because there was good reasons for the change to begin with. So, instead, I wait for you to provide solid, substantial, reasons for us to reconsider this change. When presented, I have to weigh it against the reasons why we made the change. So far, what you have wrote has not made the difference. So, yes, that is what I'm doing. It's required. I can't make changes just because X said so.

I think your case is unique in that you have a practice of managing files (deleting hot links) hosted off-site at a later time to save your bandwidth. Most people "set and forget" or use our attachment feature. I'm sorry, but we cannot cater to every single person and their unique habits.

In regard to your comments about having to resize images now that you can't edit out the URL (which I think was a bad practice to begin with) - which you stated here:

if the images I reviewed were your tweaked images, which all appear quite detailed enough for coming in 1/4-1/2 the size of our current attachment restriction, then your originals may have been a tad large.

You first state that you was removing the images in your previous posts, as shown above, and that's why you was using the edit feature. I informed you that I personally didn't believe that was a good practice, and apparently you agree because now you're stating that you have been downgrading the images you had previously posted, rather than remove the images - which you previously stated you was initially doing.

So, as you said, the problem is past tense. In fact, I think this actually brought out a better solution. Previously, people finding your posts (with images), which may be important to the subject, were not seeing them because you was previously editing out the URL and leaving the post without the image. I can only assume this was a problem because I figure you posting an image in your post must have been important enough at the time, right?

So, it seems your issue is closed. Admittedly, you previously was not doing a good practice, and now that we made some changes, you found a better way to deal with the issue. That actually sounds positive to me.

As I said, I field a lot of feedback from members due to them not seeing the image they expected, and therefore think it's TGO's issue. What you were previously doing was adding to that issue. If you initially included the image in the post at the time, then it must have been important to the subject.

I never stated that there was not some problems associated with the change of the edit time frame. You will see I listed them. You will see I was upfront about them. So your assertion that I was not accepting is unfound. They simply aren't strong enough to change our position. That something I have to consider. I made that point. Had you been a part of the staff, you would have seen that I laid out a thorough post about this subject to the staff, and cited a perfect example of why we needed to address this issue. I made it known that it was open for discussion and reconsideration. Fact is, by large, the majority of the staff could not come up with substantial reasons for reconsidering the change with the edit feature in light of the issues I presented. And most agreed with the decision based on what I presented.

So please don't continue to insult me with your remarks that I'm not accepting, not here for input, or that I'm not receptive to the problems some members have. Everything I do is based on the community, and not me personally. I'd say that alone shows where my concern and interest is. I'm one of the first to get input from the staff.

Part of my job is not exactly trying to be the best liked administrator. It's not a popularity contest. Unfortunately, I cannot please them all, and unfortunately you might be one of them. As well, part of my job comes with the cost of making some members upset, much like what happens to the Moderator team.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

I have no idea as to the trouble that can be caused by editing a post.. I don't really think about things that way... but it might be usefull to allow all threads in certain posts to be long term edit-able. The only thread I'm interested in editing is the mid-atlantic swap-meet thread, where the entire purpose of the thread was to have a local section with a minimal amount of posts so it wouldn't get jumbled with unimportant posts. that way it would stay compact, organized, and quicker to read for maximum exposure and convienience. I don't know if the forum software would support something like that, but it would be nice if the moderators could do something like that in rare cases like a local swap meet thread. a swap meet thread is frequently cleaned out by the moderator anyway.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Moderators have an unlimited time frame on editing threads that are in their sections, that didn't change

JT

iTrader: (1)

As AmorgetRS stated, and I did mention doing so (probably lost in all of this), if something needs to be edited you can contact the moderator of the forum and they can edit your post.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

There are different circumstances causing different actions on my part. Most Classified listing hot links are removed while tech images are re-sized. I'm not "Flip FLopping"; Rather than removing the tech images I've reduced thier size to leave them available to other members rather than removing them altogether. When a part has been sold - I want the images removed so I don't have pictures of parts that are sold all over the place.


My Previous practice of editing threads was a great paractice. I NEVER had a problem, complaint, or issue editing posts in the 9 years I've been a member here - until that function was unexpectedly removed. I NEVER had to resize images from my web server until AFTER the policy change. I was always able to simply remove the old/sold images and upload new ones.... leaving the technical images alone. Only NOW am I forced to leave little "X" boxes in my posts.

I've been beating this dead horse for so long it's just a pile of bones now. I know my problems aren't enough to bring editing back - I'm still yet to see ANY good reason for removing it. It's time to go and make a peanut butter sandwich.

JT

iTrader: (1)

You did not make that clear. It would not be a great practice to remove images (that you host) in any technical content situation. If it was important enough to have posted the image at the time, it must still be important and of value to the subject.

As I said, I field a lot of reports from members who view threads and see a red X in a post, when they were hoping to see the image. They believe it's a TGO issue. It's because the member either removed the image, or the host cut access, etc. Either way, it can be a problem. If the image was there in the first place, it must have had some sort of value or meaning.

Sorry, but as I said, there was very good reasons for the change, which was brought to the staff, with discussion. Based on the cases, the staff could not really "argue" the case.

The fact is, yes there is some inconvenience due to the change, but this change is best for the community as a whole. Fact is, very few large websites like TGO allow the member to edit their post years later, let alone hours or days later. There is good reasons for it. Just because it was an option in the past, doesn't necessarily mean it was "right" or had strong reasons for it. As I said, again, case in point was the previous option for HTML to be posted in posts. That was previously a long-standing option. It probably should never have been. It was changed quite some time ago, and like this, there was some complaints, but once again, we have to weigh in the pros and cons.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

its just really incnvienient to have to contact a moderator and have to describe in detail the changes you want to make. It would be more efficient if an entire swap meet thread could be pre-determined to be unilimited editing.

JT

iTrader: (1)

That isn't exactly technically possible with the software, as-is.

blyth18md

This new edit system does suck in cases where youre trying to keep the most meaningful data in the first post so that digging through pages of text aren't needed.

Case #1 - My shipping weights thread. I can't add the most recent data to the list in the first post. Legit tech.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...invoice-2.html

Case #2 - My spring rates post, originally I didn't have time to list the application of every spring for every optioned vehicle. Later I added a zip file containing an excel spreadsheet replacement spring and their applications.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ring-info.html

Now I won't dwelve into the "this forum does it that way" debate, I will just say that to me it makes since to keep similar threads/posts neat an concise. It is already difficult enough to find any genuine information on TGO.

I'll copy this to a PM in hopes that you'll at least open up these two threads for edit.

Thanks
-blyth


PS - is there anyway a moderator can give me the power to upload excel spreadsheets?

JT

iTrader: (1)

You can either contact me, or a moderator, to have the edits done. Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as making it editable. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work that way.

I can offer some suggestions, to help make it "easier", but not likely very valuable.

Yes, it is more work. Yes, this system does create some issues for the unique conditions such as this. However, understand it has to be this way. I hope that we can find a solution to better address these unique issues that do present themselves from this.

As far as the spreadsheet, not everyone has excel, though you can get the reader for free. Do you have an excel spreadsheet that can be converted to a table and embedded into a post or webpage? That way, people will not need to download the file and launch an application to view it, but instead can view it directly inside a webpage.

Feel free to email it to me jt@thirdgen.org and I can look it over.

blyth18md

email with the spreadsheet is on the way. im open to sugeestions on how to best tackle the thread, but with no telling when a response is going to come it really hinders my ability to keep the thread current while not looking cluttered.

cam-

What happened to the ability to edit your old posts? If I posted something in the past that was wrong or bad info I used to go back and fix it to avoid confusing anyone else. Cant do that anymore why?


***edit*** well just read a post a few lines down about this. How about adding a feature like what I have just done that allows editing but will not allow removal of the original info? Not being able to edit posts is not a good thing as I see it


***double edit*** seems I posted this in haste in the wrong section so it was moved hence the odd phrasing/repeat above. I'm not usually one for editing stuff unless its wrong I go back and fix it up to avoid confusing others. Perhaps a qualifying user status for editing privileges?

Out of curiosity what exactly makes having this so bad? Or what was the problem/abuse?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I never did find out !?

JT

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it's really that hard to figure out what types of abuse occurs when having a timeless window for editing posts.

The issue was presented and discussed between the staff and this was the decision/conclusion. A global and timeless edit window, unfortunately, won't be coming back in the near future. The cases where having a timeless edit window is of benefit is few, and unique, cases. While there has been no deny that having a time limit on editing posts does present some challenges and effort in those few, and unique, cases, it is not enough to warrant a global timeless edit window that allows abuse to possibly occur as it has in the past. As well, this time limit policy on editing posts is not unusual as you will find a lot of other forums have a time cutoff. There obviously is reasons why forums have such a policy and feature in place.

In regard to the suggestion to allow the member to edit their posts, but keep a un-editable copy in the post, that is currently not possible. As well, that would not resolve some of the issues presented. If there is a long, technical, post that the author wants to update (such as an inaccurate figure or statement), you probably don't want multiple sets of long post content in the same post. That would be a mess and even more confusing for readers.

I understand it has presented some issues for those few, unique, cases. I'm still trying to consider options. However, I do feel that since a lot of other forums have such a policy in place of not being able to edit posts after X time has passed, and there is no issues there, that it's not a totally unreasonable policy.

Grim Reaper

As JT aluded, unfortunately it's always a few bad apples that ruin it for everyone else. If everyone was honest & law abiding, we wouldn't need locks on doors.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

A B.S. in mechanical engineering doesn't qualify me to figure out how to harm someone by editing a post... now that the unlimited editing is gone....why is it still such a secret??? Curiosity kills cats... and naive people (like myself).

KYLE87

iTrader: (5)

Ive also experienced some frustration with not being able to edit my post. I understand not being able to after a year or even a month, But it would be nice to have atleast a week to edit them and maybe have the edit all the time feature in the classifieds section. I often mispell things with my dyslexia ot mix up words and dont notice it until later on, now I cant fix it like I used to could and im not gonna waste the time to contact a moderator and say hey I misspelled this can you fix it.

I also wish an announcement would have been made instead of going to do it and being surprised.

Grim Reaper

Ahh, so people can quickly change their past posts and remove any incriminating evidence? j/k (sort of).

Problem is, most people don't read those (announcements) either. And when we point it out to them, they will complain that it should have been "posted at this place or in this manner". No matter what TGO does, someone will always complain regardless of what is done.

As the old saying goes, "You might please all of the people some the time and might please some of the people all of the time. But you will never please ALL of the people ALL of the time".

JT

iTrader: (1)

Agreed with Glenn. As well, this change just doesn't greatly cause issue for the majority of our members, only minor with special cases. In addition, this policy is more common among other websites. I also think the longer term/senior members whould be more impacted because they were more use to TGO's prior policy.

In regard to the classifieds, that is actually a good example of a section where you wouldn't want people having a limitless or long edit window.

Cflick

My opinion, a week is a reasonable time frame.
Of course, your opinion is the one that counts, so that's the one we'll be abiding by.
Generally, if I'm inclined to edit at all, it's a subsequent visit where I read my own post, and wonder "What was this guy thinking ? Oh, that's ME !"
Methinks a week is a reasonable time for that re-read to happen.

My only suggestion, which may not be possible, ( depending on the software available ) would be to leave the edit button as it always was, but replace the "save changes" button with a "forward to moderator" button. This *should* make everyone happy. <sic>
Edits are done by the moderator, yet are easier for the moderator as he/she can merely review, and either forward the post or discard.

The user sees the same interface as in the past, except an obvious button that serves to notify that the edit will first be reviewed, and may or may not be allowed. Time frames beyond an hour or so become irrelevant, as I suspect most edits are ( or should be ) for misspellings, and such.
Sure, the preview should negate all of this, if properly used, but that's not when I'm likely to see many of my own misteaks.

Truth be told, anything that's posted anywhere on internet *should* be considered permanent and irrevocable at the time of posting, because with the various crawlers operating out there, it probably is. ( permanent )

For whatever it's worth.........

mplogic

I'm trying to update an ad with a lower price. Can't do it. Lower left hand corner says "CAN edit posts", but isn't the case... Going to force me to put up a new listing and add more clutter to the forum...

Apeiron

Make a reply to your original ad thread.

JT

iTrader: (1)

You can always contact the moderator of the forum where the thread is, or an administrator such as myself, and we can update it. May not be optimal, but it's an option I make known and have performed for others.

Thanks.

gatorcola

I had a question about editing and found the answer easily right here.

Thanks for promptly editing a post as previously requested.