socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

I took the camaro to the track for the first time. The results were kind of dissapointing. What do you guys think?

Best time was my second run, my car specs are:
383 roller shortblock
10.7 :1 compression ratio
TFS 195 heads
crane cams 214 & 220 deg @.050 112 lobe sep
.472 and .495 lift with 1.6 rockers
edelbrock intake manifold
SLP runners
stock trotlebody & MAFS
stock chip
adjustable fuel pressure reg.
hooker 1 5/8 shorty headers
timming is on the stock possition

I used 91 octane gas and a bottle of lucas octane booster. I didn't have any detonation problems.
I was thinking on a custom chip, but I don't know if that's going to help much.

What is your 383 making on the 1/4 mi.?
Any opinions in what is holding me back?

cali92RS

I would think that stock chip, and weak cam are a big reason for those times.

JERRYWHO

A few questions

Injector size?
Rear Gears?
Trans?
Converter if auto?
Any tire spin?
Shift rpm?
Race track?

And after all the questions do you have a way to get a data scan on it. (Datamaster, Diacom or auto X-ray.)

That combo if tuned right can go 13.1 to 13.4 very easy at a good air track.

Jerry

84RIceEater

i am gonna cry.... i am planing to get a create motor w/ 300hp and 350 torque and no nothing like a 383 and and i was thinking high 13's and low 14's but if a 383 can make 14.50's w/ all that done to it.

socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

My injectors are 24#,
rear gears 3.41,

700R4 tranny w/ stock converter,
I shifted at around 6500 RPM, I tried some diferent shift points, but the car worked best when I left it on second and then manually shifted to third.

I have regular street tires, but I get very little tire spin, if any.
I had to lower the air pressure on the rear tires to get better traction.

the track was the Los Angeles County Racetrack in Palmdale
I know that there is some corrections that have to be made due to the altitude of the track, but, I'm not sure how to do that.

riceeater, don't get desapponted, I know that my combo is capable of delivering more performance, it's just not that easy to get thigs to work the way they are suposed to for the first time.

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

im agreeing with Cali on this one..

and i think you really really need a custom tune. you would be surprised how much that will help.

why did you choose a that lift cam?
also shifting at 6500rpm?? isnt that past your car's power band? stock TPI drops at 4500.. is your car still pulling at that RPM? Allen who is on this board has his shift points @ 6000 but im pretty sure he has a different converter.

my 60ft time is almost identical to yours.. but i pulled a 13.94@98.89 but your motor & tranny are completely diff to mine.

355 TPI 6 speed.

BretD 88GTA

Here's some problems I see.

That stock chip isn't helping, especially with 24# injectors. The computer can't control them properly.

Also, it sounds like you still have some restrictions in the set-up — i.e stock throttle body. 1 3/4 headers would be better for a 383. Is your plenum ported at all?

RWB____s

what would those times be at sea level? It should be quicker at sea level.

12secSS

Corrected to "sea level" would be 14.0 @ 98. That is the most mismatched combo I have ever heard of.

JERRYWHO

NHRA ALTITUDE CORRECTION FACTORS
Convert to Sea Level Convert to Altitude
Track Name Alt ET MPH
Palmdale, CA 2700 .9761 1.0229

Jerry

socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

I think you guys are right about the stock chip and TB.

I built this motor last year, and it was not going to be strictly a drag racing car, I wanted to keep it streetable. And in fact is a very fun car to drive on the street

I have had this intake combo on the stock 350 since 2002 and it worked really nice. But last year I decided to change the motor, so, I kept all the bolt on stuff I had on the old one.

My plans are to see if I can get good performance with this intake combination without spending a fortune in the process. If keeping the TPI is going to be too costly, I might change to a carb.

I did because I got a very good deal on it, and also because its the biggest cam crane makes for TPI
My TPI is not stock

The plenum is not ported, nor are the runners, so, there is some room for improvement there.

Thanks for all your possitive input

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

If you have an 88 IROC as in your profile, then you cant switch to a carb and keep it street legal.

You dont have to use a "TPI" cam, especially not with a 383 and Trick Flow heads. That TPI cam is made for stock heads and a stock engine.

I bet your car runs pretty rich. Your biggest obstacles right now are the stock chip ( I can make you a custom one ) and your stock torque converter. Upgrade both, and you'll pick up a second in the quarter mile.

Russ-So Cal

I think you are going way past your power peak when you shift at 6500. You say your tpi is not stock, but that your runners and plenum are not ported. What is not stock? Allan is running higher rpms with his combo, but he has his runners siamesed so that they are part of the plenum. It reduces his "runner length" from 28 inches or so to about 10 inches. What is "tuned" about tpi is wave length for the intake charge. The longer the "tuned length" of the runners the lower the power comes on and the sooner it runs out of the tuned length. When you go much past the tuned length of the runners with your rpm, the runners actually hinder airflow instead of helping.

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

word

89 TA

You mean to tell me there's someone worst than me. COOL!!

socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

I think that I'm going to port the plenum and siames the runners, as soon as I have a chance.

Kevin, I'm going to P.M. you in a couple of weeks so that you can custom burn a chip for me. Will my stock TB flow enough to at least see significant improovements from a custom chip?

I did the math and the corrected times are as follows:

1/4 mi 14.158 @ 97.5 Mph
1/8 mi 9.198 @ 79 Mph

If some tunning and a converter swap can make the car a second faster a kevin says, that will get me to low 13s at sea level which is not too bad. Mabe then a cam swap will get me in to the 12s. Im I being way too optimistic here? Mabe is not as easy as it sounds. You guys with more experience can tell me if I'm wrong, I dont mind, after all I just found out that I have the most mistmatched combo here in the boards

socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

Just to let you know guys what a little porting is worth.

I ported my plenum and the runners and gained practically half a second in the 1/4 mi.

My prior best corrected run was 14.16 @ 97.5 mph

Today's best corrected run was 13.68 @101.8 mph
Not too bad for a few hours of porting.
I'm still running the stock chip, TB w/out air foil, and, MAFS. So, there's room for improovement there.

MikeDirntRulez

Wow, I can't wait for that chip tune, that's probably reeealy holding you back man.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I have to agree. You need a good tune. You should be in the 12 second range. Looks like you are taking steps in the right direction. Allen

socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

Update:
I got a custom chip installed, a 2800 vigilante torque converter, 58mm TB, and with M/T et Streets, got a best 1/8 mi run of 8.52 sec. I want to get some 1/4 mi slips now to see the improovement. Does anyone, know how to convert 1/8 mi times to 1/4 mi? Something was messed up with the sensors or the computers at the track, so, I was not able to get 60ft times, nor speed.

Mabe time for a custom cold air induction. Also have been thinking about loosing the A/C, I'm still debating.

I also found out that my stock tach is off by 1000 to 1500 RPMs, that's why it seems that I shift past my powerband.

Russ-So Cal

If you are thinking of removing the a/c for better times, it won't make any difference unless you have been running with the a/c turned on. The total weight savings will be less than 25#, and when the a/c is deenergised, you are just turning a freewheeling ball bearing.

socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

I'm no really expecting better times by remooving the A/C, the problem that I'm having right now is that the car tends to over heat when sitting in traffic, at 100sh degree weather, so, I'm going to experiment to see if getting rid of the A/C condenser helps my radiator cooldown better. I hope I can find a better way to keep it cool, I really like having A/C.

Thanks for the feedback

BrandenCali

Im kinda brushed up on this info here.. But if you have a semi stock chip, or if you have not changed the sensor to a lower temp.. You are going to be running warm.. And also do you have a trans cooler.. Maybe some things to consider before yanking the A/C.. Kevin's tune will make a world of diffrence for you.. And esp if you swap out your ecu to a 7730.. And dont feel like you have such a mismacth combo.. If it runs it's all good.. Then you have considerable options of working around certain things..

SchwarzCamaroRS

lol, yeah, id say tune and 6500 shifting... i have a 350 TBI and it will run faster than 14.8 in the 1/4 and its got a stock chip, stock swirl port heads and a stock intake... shift 1-2 manually and let it shift 2-3 itself... i have 3.23 posi gears and a 700R4... you have 33 more cid than me, and better injection system... and MUCH better heads... its all in the tune...

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I roughed out a street tune for him the other day when he was here, but we didnt get to do very many WOT blasts.

socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

Well, I can tell you that the new custom chip made a lot of difference, I mean, I can really feel it at part throttle, mabe with a little more time, we can we can improove it.
My best 1/8 my run prior to the chip & T. convetrer 8.89 sec
Now the best run was 8.52 sec on the 1/8mi
So there was an improovement of practically 4 tenths. I supose that on the 1/4mi with good traction it should be anywhere between mid to low 13s.
I was thinking on swapping the cam, but, we'll see.
Thanks for the suggestions Branden, I do have a tranny cooler, griffin rad, pema cool 12" & 14" fans, lower temp fan switch, and 180 temp thermostat. I'm only having the problem when sitting still in traffic, it could be that because of my underdrive pulley, the pump is not mooving enough water when idleing, so, I'm going to upgrade my water pump, but now that summer is gone, I might have to wait until next year to see if the problem is still there.

Russ-So Cal

Again, unless your fins are plugged and restricting the airflow, the condenser should not make any difference in your engine temps. If you want to solve your cooling problems, you need to do some trouble shooting and inspecting, instead of randomly removing stuff. Is there rust and scale in your radiator?

socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

No rust, the radiator is new with new hoses & antyfreeze, the block was rebuilt last november, and it was cleaned at a machine shop, so, it should still be clean inside.

Russ-So Cal

I would do the upgrade on the water pump, next spring and see what difference it makes. Also keep the fins cleaned out on both the radiator and the condenser. Is the trans cooler in front of the condenser? If a trans cooler preheats the air coming into the condenser, it could adversely affect the a/c operation.

BrandenCali

Yeah with all that done to the vehicle it should be running normal temps.. My car runs cool with what has been done to it, but Im on a side note just like SoCaltam in a 100 degree weather stopped in freeway traffic my temps rise.. Any other lower temps or rolling constant the temps are way cool.. I dont have a big Alum radiator however, But I know if I had a better fan system I be maybe looking better.. The Dual stock fans can only handle the cfm a stock engine needs.. Then to consider 3rdgen's are heat soakers.. Some say the hood instulation is not needed it's for cold weather.. However I could consider I beg to differ.. Hopefully with a better water pump and a choice of thermo to go with it.. Hopefully next year things will be looking better for you..

Gr89RS

iTrader: (5)

Is the air dam on the car?

SchwarzCamaroRS

mine does the same thing with a 16" fan and a summit 2 core aluminum radiator. all my stuff is in place, i blame mine on airflow... my fan only pulls 1100cfm through the radiator, its just not enough to keep my aluminum radiator cool... im upgrading to a 3600cfm dual 14" setup when i can, that should keep it cool.... that and a high flow water pump... mines all stock..

socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

The air dam is intact. Since this is only happening when sitting at idle for a while, I'm thinking it could be one of two things: One, it could be that the alt does not keep the battery fully charged when idleing because of the underdrive pulley consequently the electric fans do not work at full speed, or Two: that the water pump does not circulate enough water at idle for the same reason(underdrive pulley). Or three: It could be both things combined.
I'm gonna do what russ sugests and wait until next summer to experiment wit a few things, mabe I'll swap my original pulley and see what difference it makes. I'm almost sure is an air flow problem, because the temp of the motor starts dropping as soon as the car its going at least 30mi/h. I'll let you guys know next year what was the problem.

BrandenCali

Sounds good I'll be waiting to hear about it.. Just thinking I have a very small battery pushing my fans.. I can turn both fans on at any time with the dfi and Im using a Modine rad, with the edelbrock hi flow alum water pump w/ a 160.. I have the same syptom as your car.. For me it's not Air intake as I put a Huge Ram air to help flow that 1000cfm tb And SR.. Free flowing exhaust with coated headers, ..Big trans cooler under car routed into radiator also So I don't understand why the temps rise slow sitting.. I also have the Iroc oil cooler.. However not the best cooler but that could be worked with.. What is needed to be figured what is going to bring temps down constant and stay no warmer than 220 rolling sitting..