Josh R

iTrader: (1)

What is the best things i can do to my iroc to make it handle even better than it already does? I want it to handle like a new vette.

blyth18md

big sticky tires and a set of konis...start there then report back.

87 formy

Sounds about right, might want to throw on a set of subframe connectors on there so you don't twist things up with the sticky tires. After that maybe a set of sway bars off of a ws6 firebird if you have skinny ones.

MilehighBird

iTrader: (1)

Our cars have a solid rear axle so they will always ride a little rougher over uneven /rough pavement vs. a corvette with it's independent rear suspension.

That being said they can be moddified to perform very well. It really depends on your budget.
Subframe connectors are a must and should be done first. Koni yellows, big sticky tires, lowering springs, bigger sway bars, wonder bar, strut tower brace, poly sway bar bushings and end links. You should replace all the rubber suspension pieces up front if they are old,I used MOOG parts.
If you have the budget, it would be a good time to do a brake upgrade while you have everything apart. There are companies(and members on this board) that sell moddified spindles that allow you to use bigger Corvette brake calipers and rotors. You could upgrade you rear brakes to the "89 and up PBR caliper.

Tobias05

replace any worn out suspension components if needed. then get a pair of spohn sfcs. don't worry about anything else till you do these two things.

can you throw some RPO codes at us? specifically suspension codes.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

its all been said already. best bet would to get a kit from UMI or something. the most worn are your bushings/springs/struts/body which is ur frame.

subframes will tighten it up, along with the struts/shocks. but i would do springs if u do shocks since your taken it all out anyway, better to just do it once and get it over wit. while thats being done, put poly bushings in the front control arms.

our cars can outhandle a ferrarri when built correctly... and woop a new vette etc.... not to start any forum wars but if anyone questions that i will be more than happy to search mags to find the article that tested like 10 sports cars and a upgraded 87 IROC, the iroc dominated in allmost everything. salom, G's etc.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

yeah i knew they could handle but didn't relize how much more potential they have. If i get sub frames will i need to move the exhuast? And i really didn't want to lower it much. I was thinking air ride, but will i need to have an adjustable panhard bar, and have to adjust it everytime i lower or raise it? Ill get those RPO codes too.

Where do you find RPO codes on our cars? :P

426 Wedge

You can leave you exhuast the way it is. BMR makes 2 different types of SFC'S for short and long headers and stock exhaust.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

ok thats good. Found the codes.
All that relate to suspension, i think:
- 9NL, 8NL, 6DB, 7DB, computer selected springs?
- FE2, suspension ride handling

(i learned that my car has an alarm from my RPO codes, i wonder if it works)

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

steal it and see what happens

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

the FE2 is the good suspension right?

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

Pretty good, but not the best.
Just go through the car and replace all the bushings that need (except on parts you plan to replace, such as the LCAs, PHB, or whatever), install some Spohn or UMI SFCs, order a set of KONIs, a GOOD set of tires and then get it alligned. Then start on all the other stuff.

This thread may help: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ng-f-body.html I just kinda forgot to mention SFCs.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

i want to avoid lowering my car. I feel that pre-91 camaros look dumb lowered. I want to out handle those little street legal gokarts called *****s.

why is "R!CERS" blocked out?

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

On my car I replaced the steering box, for my car their are 2 steering boxes. FE2 and non-FE2, the difference being FE2 has the fast steering ratio.
I have had good luck installing bilstein shocks/struts and the eibach prokit and my tires suck I need new ones. But my car still handles nice.
Our cars are so old you will maybe need to replace just about every thing, tie rods, drag link, strut tower cap bushing, rag joint, ball joint, idler bar, steering box and thats just the front end.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I'm just gonna listen in on this conversation seeing as I have an 87 IROC that I will be autocrossing next summer.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

If you don't want to lower the car, you won't have the advantages of a lower center of gravity, but there are things that you can do help in this area without actually lowering the vehicle, but they all give me a headache.

Still, the vehicle will handle very well with the right stock height springs. Buy a set of Moog springs. They are stock replacement springs. The part numbers you'll want are 5662 front and 5665 rear. They are the stiffest springs that were available on 3rd gens from the factory.
Another option is going with a set of aftermarket springs from SSS or Eibach Race Springs, etc. You can order them at stock height with stiffer than stock rates. Although, I'm not about how this would affect the ride/handling off the car. You'll want to look in depth into that topic if you go that route.

Just make sure you replace all the worn bushings, linkages, etc before you start upgrading parts. Here's a list of things to look out for. Except for example, if you are going to swap rear control arms...no need to buy two sets of bushings....

Rear Lower Control Arm Bushings (upgrade)
Panhard Bar Bushings (upgrade)
Ball Joints
Torque Arm Bushing (upgrade)
Tie Rods
Front Sway Bar End Links/Bushings (upgrade)
Rear Sway Bar End Links/Bushings (upgrade)
Front Control Arm Bushings
Strut Mounts (might as well buy a new one from Spohn/HotPart)

No need to start upgrading parts if you have bad bushings/bearing still on the car.

Tobias05

a set of spohns tubular lower control arms, paired with his relocation brackets, really tightened up the back end of my car. and I'm still running a 19mm swaybar back there! gonna break down one of these days and get a used 23mm from top-down along with some poly bushings.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

Just make sure you keep your stock bar. I was stupid and trashed mine when I got my Spohn bar... now I need it.

Tobias05

hows those spohn sway bar(s) treating ya?

426 Wedge

Use 3 point SFC'S. Boxed is stronger than tube.

soultron

iTrader: (2)

These cars can handle really well with the right parts, everyone has mention the best thing to do. I've done most of that stuff, but for some reaon, my car slides all over the place. Go fig...

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I just have the 25mm rear one. It's a good piece and it works well at high speed (60+) but for lower speed stuff it's a little to small and tends to unload the inside tire under throttle. I'm moving down to a 24 to see if it helps. If not, I'm getting a hollow 23 from Strano.

Square tubing isn't as efficient at resisting torsional displacement (holding one end and twisting the other end around it's long axis) as round tubing. It's stronger at resisting lateral loads (one end held stationary and the a force applied to the other). What kind of forces the part will be experiencing needs to determine what kind of tubing you choose.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

ok. So im gonna go ahead and get SFC's from TopDown along with that Wonderbar. Then im replacing the bushing's all around, with polyurethane? Then an adjustable panhard bar, rear control arms, and relocation brackets, front strut-bar, moog performance (stock replacment) springs, and... what about sway bars?

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like a plan. But, you'll get more of an improvement from shocks than you will from springs. I'd get some shocks (Bilstein, KONI) then springs/ sway bars. Best advice on sway bars is to get a few different ones and see what you like. I'm running a 36/25 set now, but I think I'm going to go down to the 24.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

theres alot of debate over poly or rubber bushings, ive done everything except the motor mounts (which will be done with the new motor) and the peformance is amazing, i wouldnt use rubber again but the only prob is squeaks.... but i dont care. most aftermarket will come with poly, but i would suggest with the rear end components like the LCA, and panhard rod that u would get one sided poly and the other sperical rod ends. double sided rod ends would be a bit noisy/rough for the street.

moog replacement will give u better performance than stock with stock 4" fender gaps, a set of ebachs will give u better performance even if its a prokit the drop will help wiht rollover and lower center of gravity. or cut the moogs. and adjustable panhard rod is only neccessary if ur lowering the car otherwise it is not needed. as well as the LCA relocation brackets but the LCA brackets will help even on a stock car but arent "needed".

sway bars are also depended on springs/shocks/ cars performance/driving habits. larger sway bars will increase stiffness and rollover. most put larger sways with softer springs so the springs/shocks offer individual wheel suspension. like a BMW they use larger sways and softer springs so each wheel has more travel suspension and simulates indiviual suspension travel. the other way to do it is to find the harmony with a good sway say like the stock WS6 bar 36/24 (like mine) and a good set of 700lb front springs and 130-150lb rears with that size bar will alow minimal body roll and lets the sway bar do the suspension versus the individual wheels.

i would do the shocks/struts and springs at the same time. they will give u more performance than the other parts. and since u will be ripping them out to do the shocks or the springs to do it anyway u just have to do it once bc u really dont want to do it again.

after the shocks/springs are done, i would then do the rest. SFC, panhardrod,LCA, bushings etc. u could do the SFC with the springs/shocks.... that would be a huge improvement over stock. koni's and prokit will run u almost a grand and subframes are like 200-250$ so its expensive and u want the most for u buck. that will give u it. enjoy

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

You don't have to remove the springs to do the shocks. Or vice versa. It's easier to do em all at once, sure, but you can do one at a time. But, you will need to get 2 allignments.

With my next build, I think I'll do some stiffer springs and smaller sway bars to see how that works. Been considering it for a while, but I don't have any experience with that.

I thought BMWs had all wheel independent suspension. At leas the ones I've seen...no need to simulate it.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

I replaced the shocks/struts already. There just oem. I really like the stock ride height. How about AirRide? Or are coilovers worth it althought i don't wanna climb under the car everytime i want it to handle.

What if I buy Moog springs and chop them down .5in. Would half an inch help the handling? I'm not gonna go any lower than that for an everyday driven car.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

If you have OEM springs on the car, just stick some KONIs on it. Big improvement with just that.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

if u cut moogs u will increase spring rate. it will make the springs stiffer combine that with a good set of shocks/struts like konis or blistens/adjustables KYB or tokio adjustables. they make it so u dont have to climb under the car u can do it from the tops or the strut mounts.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

ok so choping the moogs about a .5 inch sounds good. Now what are the rules when you cut springs? DO i just take a sawsall to them or is there a special way? And what goes better with higher spring rates, stiffer swaybars? Or would that cause way to much stiffness?

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

I was lucky enough to get an IROC equipped with Bilsteins and the heavier swap bars. By chance i snapped the stock torque arm at the mount to the tranny(heavy foot, torquey motor, 20 year old metal). So i installed a spohn torque arm, then a year later their LCAs and panhard rod. I got the rod end for the torque arm and on one end of the panhard rod. The torque arm made the most notable difference. The car hooks better off the line and felt more stable out of corners. Then with the addition of the other parts made the car even stiffer and it lifts the nose much harder in a straight line. But definetly do the SFCs first i did and it really helped my car out

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure the spring rates it causes, but they do get stiffer and you'll need good shocks to dampen them. The sway bars are pretty much whatever the driver likes. Some like stiff sway bars and soft springs, some like stiff springs and 'soft' sway bars. What size bars do you have now?

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

whatever is stock on an iroc with FE2 suspension... ill measure it one day.

Can someone give me examples of how the car handles with certain setups?
-Stiff Springs, soft bars
-soft springs, stiff bars
-soft springs, soft bars
-stiff springs, stiff bars

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

u usually dont say cut .5" off a spring usually its referred to as cutting coils. i would start wit prob 1/2 a coil and go from there. rememeber that cuting the coil u will increase spring rate and ride height so putting them in and taking them out might have to happen unless u do it once and get it how u want. dont cut to much off at once since u can always cut more but never add.

also when cutting coil springs use a cutting wheel and never a torch or somethig that creates alot of heat since u will affect the metal and its strength.

diff setups will offer diff results. most are set with good shocks and roughly 650-700lb springs and a 34-36mm front sway bar.

rear setups that are most common for aggressive daily drivers like above are good shocks, 130-150lb rear springs and a WS6 24mm sway bar.

usually a set of cut moogs, koni's/blistens/kyb adjustables, and 36/24mm sway bars are more than adequate, i have the above except my struts/shocks are KYB gr2 front and gas-a just rears and it handles better than any new car ive drive and a million times better than my stock WS6. i have lots of suspension upgrades and all poly
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soft springs- larger sways put more load on the swaybar but can simulate individual wheel suspension.

stiffer springs-smaller sways will put more work on the springs and the individual wheel.

stiff springs-large sways will give u a hell of a stiff ride. i wouldnt recomend them for street.

soft/soft will make it feel like a old caddy with a shot suspension. but the ride will be smooth and comfortable.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

If you cut the coil, make sure you cut it fast and don't let hit heat up. Don't use a blow torch. It can affect the temper of the metal and that's no good. That's part of the reason you see Hondas with cut or heated springs bouncing all over the place. That, and they use stock or crap shocks

My car has the Pro-Kit and WS6 sway bars. I love the ride on the highway, but on secondary roads, it can be rough. Especially with the KONIs on stiff. The Pro-Kit isn't very stiff. It's just a little stiffer than the IROC/WS6 stockers. The stiffest stock springs are 750lb/in front and about 105 rear. The Pro-Kit is 714 lb/in front and 107-180 (I think) progressive rear. I'm going to go to 750 or 800 lb/in fronts with 150 non-progressive rear when I go to weight jacks. But that's because I'm going about an inch lower (than the Pro-Kit) and don't wanna be bottoming out all the time. If you want to lower the car much and maintain performance and ride, you'll want to go stiffer than stock, not the same rates no matter what the sway bars.

Also, when you ask for 'stiff vs soft' comparisons, that's kinda hard to answer. It's a subjective notion, and varies from person to person. How the car 'handles' is also subjective to each person. Just like people, every car is different and everyone will like something a little different. Best thing to do is either find several people with different set-ups and see if you can drive their cars, or do some research on different set-ups and get what you think you'll like and be ready to do some experimentation.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

theres no way stock springs where that high....wherent stock springs 600lb and 103 rear? thats wat i thought was the highest WS6 spring rates. the moogs are alil stiffer than stock and they are in the low 600's. the prokit is 714lb front and 109-150 rear. sportlines are 700 front and 109-130 rear.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

The highest (on the verts) were right near 700 and 750. It's on a list somewhere on this forum. I'll see if I can find it.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

ok. So will cutting 1/2 a coil on the moogs lower my car or raise it up? haha. And aren't irocs swaybars 35/24? Ill measure mine.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

lol half a coil will raise the car 3"

no really im not sure if ur serious. 1/2 a coil will lower it maybe .5-3/4 and inch i think

Jason89RS

iTrader: (2)

check out this thread....It pretty much lays it out.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...=1#post3576837

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

yeah i'm gonna read that. I changed my mind about lowering it. I really don't want to. But ill replace my springs with moogs. The front are rated at 706# @ load height (i don't know what that means) and the back are 107#. Riding at stock height with those spring rates, what kind of sway bars am i gonna want? Will the spohn work good for me? The front are 1-5/16" (33mm) and the rear are 1" (25mm).

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

i wanna be able to do this:

http://Camarotv.vidiac.com/video/5ad...c14168ae44.htm

Jason89RS

iTrader: (2)

If you want to do that you'll first have to decide what class you want to run in. Once you decide that then you can prep your cars suspension and brakes accordingly.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

im not sure the moogs are rated that high sry. there was a post on another thread here that stated that the #'s are off with the moogs, something about the part #'s in numbered order and how the spring rates jump when they shouldnt. the higher part numbers should have higher spring rates but they dont. the moogs arent 700lb they should be more like 600lb. like a stock WS6 spring is like 600 or somthing. i just read that the hotchkins lowering springs are something like 600 or 650lb.

load height means when the spring is installed in the car and its compressed with the weight of the car.

with that vid moogs arent gona cut it, hes prob running 750/800lb front springs and 150-200lb rears. and some good shocks/struts.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, you're going to want to pick a class and modify the car according to the rules to run auto-x. My car is too modified to run much less than E-Street Prepaired, and I do not have the experience or skill for that class. You're going to need alot of seat time for that. Head over to frrax.com and start reading. If you just want to make the car handle well on the street and just be fun to drive (like I did with my car), what mods you do don't matter - your options are wide open. My advice is to get a set of Weight Jacks if you are wanting to just make a fun street car. You can select exactly what spring rates you want when you order and and adjust the ride height at will.

Read up. There are the rates and parts numbers.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

ok ill read that too. I'm not sure i want to actually do autocross, i like going faster. But i want my car to handle sorta that good. Will the spohn swaybars work with the moog springs well?

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I meant that list for customblackbird. The weight jacks were for you. But the info with the springs will help you too.
The Spohn sway bars are fine, but honestly, get a good assortment of GM bars. The Spohn bars are solid and pretty heavy. You can get 2-4 GM bars for the price of 1 Spohn bar depending on where you shop.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

those coilovers are expensive. And i really don't wanna lower my car. Where do i get GM bars?

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, they are pricey. I like them though. My buddy has them on his Integra. If you don't want to lower the car, it's kinda pointless.
You can get GM bars from eBay, Camaro forums, here, junk yard...just about anywhere.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

well it can't be totally pointless. I figure ill replace the bushings, stiffen the frame, better shocks... and then mess around with the anti-roll bars. Since my car is going to sit a little higher than most, aren't i going to get some extra body roll, would more neg camber in front be better?

Also, do you want to get the "unsprung" amount of weight as low as possible?