killacamaro

iTrader: (5)

hey guys killacamaro again. well im having sum trouble putting the alt back in and the ps pump in. the thing is i have an electric water pump cuz i got it for 30 bux brand new from a friend. i got the V-belt brackets for the alt and ps pump. but the alt bracket doesnt match up or align with the water pump. and with the ps pump im just confused the hell of how to install it.

if any1 has any ideas wat i should do or how to get this working it would be great. thank you

killacamaro

iTrader: (5)

ANY1?????

RFmaster

Why don't you post photos of your setup - preferably in focus. A good picture say a thousand words!

//RF

ParkerTPIz

iTrader: (6)

i agree, need pics to get an idea of wtf youre talking about

killacamaro

iTrader: (5)

well i figured out the problem. you need different brackets. u cannot use the stock brackes wit an electric pump soo im going back to mechanical. o well.

but RF i do have sum other questions. im soon ready to fire this beast up after all my work. but i need to know like witht he distributor i forgot to mark the position of my old one. so i wont know wat plug goes to wat plug on the cap. can u help me out. thanx

RFmaster

Oh Boy!

There are couple of ways of doing this. You had to chose the hard way. Oh well its too late for this now. Here is what you do to find TDC on #1 Cylinder for setting dizzy back into the engine:

Pull all spark plugs - you will turning engine by hand with a braker bar on a PS pump. Clean all the crud around dizzy hole - you do not want crud falling into your engine. (You can remove coil for easy of access)

For #1 Cylinder, turn engine CW until you FIND COMPRESSION (No compression = open valve) at Top Dead center, Timing marks aligned. If you have this your basic mechanical timing (Chain and gears) are in reasonably good order and you are on or about TDC.

Then get a straw from one of 7-eleven 30 Oz drinks - stick it into # 1 Cyl spark plug hole to locate the top of the piston, and turn the crank by hand. Do this UNTIL the only way the straw moves DOWN no matter which way you rotate the crank (CW or CCW) This is DEAD ON TDC. (straw is poor man's piston stop, and it won't damage piston or valves)

Next step - align oil pump shaft with dizzy shaft drive - thats a tricky part. I use a 12" BFS blade screwdriver. I marked the screwdriver handle to align with blade orientation. Insert BFS into dizzy opening oil pump shaft until slot is approximately inline with #5 cylinder. Get a dizzy and install rotor - point to about 3 o'clock. Slowly drop dizzy into its hole. Dizzy gears should engage camshaft gears and turn clockwise. If oil pump shaft is aligned properly dizzy should drop in - dizzy shaft flange should be flush with intake manifold. If it is not oil pump shaft has not engaged into dizzy shaft. Get BFS out again and turn oil pump shaft a bit to one side - it usually drops in.

As you drop dizzy in and shaft engages camshaft gears rotor should rotate CW and end up at about 5 o'clock position - traditionally used by SBC for #1 cylinder.

On a traditional SBC firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 in a cw rotation.

//RF

killacamaro

iTrader: (5)

hey RF, yeah i did the stupidest thing when i took apart my engine. well i know how to find tdc because i had to do this when i installed the new cam and springs, new timing chain set.

here is the thing, the distributor is in as we speak, it went in fine, i kinda like knew the position or the sitting of my stock dist. soo i put it in the way it looked when i took it out. i just dont know where the rotor was pointing.

now as i read what you wrote me i am a little confused. my engine is basically put back together, soo i guess it myte be a little hard turning the enigne to TDC. basically what you are telling me is to find TDC on cylinder 1 and then stick a straw inside the cylinder to find DEAD TDC? and then take a flat head screw driver? and stick it inside my engine to do what? thats where i am lost.... soo thats the part i need explained more....

now if my dizzy is in as we speak and sitting flush what does that mean? also where do u point the rotor after all this is done? thats wat im confused also about.

RFmaster

Pull spark plugs out and get a nice braker bar and 1/2 drive socket for crankshaft

Yes, if the straw only move down you are right at TDC


If you have dizzy out of the engine take a long 12" blade screwdriver through dizzy manifold opening. The oil pump shaft has a slot where the bottom of dizzy shaft engages with oil pump shaft. Make sure that screwdriver engages into oil pump shaft. Turn screw driver so that slot is in line between imaginary line drawn between dizzy hole and #5 cylinder. This pre-alignment of oil pump shaft allows for dizzy to be dropped in and more less allows for rotor to point at a traditional 5 o'clock position for #1 cylinder dizzy cap.

//RF

killacamaro

iTrader: (5)

ok i got this down i think. when i get the engine at tdc, the slit to the oil pump will be facing the length of the cam correct? and when u say the straw can only move up n down im guessing the piston is at the bottom of the block. I thought TDC is when the air comes out of the 1st spark plug hole of cylinder 1?

another thing i need to know is, belt sizes and routing the belts. i went from a Serp setup to a V-belt setup. soo if any1 knows the sizes of the belts that would be great.

do i need a single groove waterpump pulley or double?

also RF how do i run my engine without the EGR? and also do u need the charcoal canister? and that thing next to it that connects to the TB?? i htink its the choke but im not sure.

what should i do for the IAT sensor? its like just layin in the the engine bay, is there a certain area i should put it?

thanx for the help agian RF ur the greatest

RFmaster

OK take 2.

TDC is a Top Dead Center. When piston is at TDC it can only move down regardless if you turn crankshaft CW or CCW. A straw is just an indicator of movement from TDC that is all.

Regarding oil pump alignment - take a look at attached drawing. It should make sense by now....

You can always approximate the length of a belt by running some 3/8" cotton rope through the pulleys making a complete loop. Make granny knot (or other preferred knot) and take it with to auto parts store. Get your looped rope around belt gauge. It may take couple of trips - just explain to the parts guy what you are doing and this way you'll determine the best length of belt for your setup.

Since your car was originally equipped with EGR, by federal law, you must re-install EGR and all other emission devices unless you plan to run your car in off road application - race track only. Technically, EGR does not hurt performance, and actually improves gas millage when it's operating properly. Charcoal canister purges gas tank accumulated fumes into TB during certain operating conditions - see that ECM control line going to it? Again, it does not hurt performance and actually makes your ride safer and prevents gas fumes from venting into atmosphere. That makes Al Gore and other tree hungers very happy!

IAT can be mounted into the base of the new air cleaner. If you disconnect it ECM will throw a code.

TB vacuum hose connections - take a picture of your TB and post it. There are some differences between passenger car and truck TB's

//RF

killacamaro

iTrader: (5)

hey RF well i think i got the dizzy part going good. I have a few more questions.

EGR valve, i will have no room to install this and have it working, because its rite under my TPS sensor and i forgot the other sensor. So can you tell me how to run my engine without the EGR. but look at the pic



next i need to know which each of these vac lines go to, i have a feel for like 2 of these lines. but i dont know the rest. can you please help out, and lemme know which line goes where. thanx



next is my brackets for the ALT and PS Pump. can you tell me which is each 1 and also where they get mounted onto the engine. i got the top of the alt bracket in the rite spot but i need to know where the rest goes. also i need to know where those or if u use those bars that go with the brackets. they look like a U on each end. guess to give more strength to the bracket.




Also the throttle cable is long, or has alot of play in it. it overshoots where it is suppose to be connectd to the intake. by like 1" how do i get this to be in the right spot. also take the play out of my gas pedal?? i am a little confused. thanx

This will be greatly appreciated. thanx guys, im almost finished and ready to start her up. thanx

RFmaster

Nice progress. Well let see, oh yea here is the markup photo




About throttle cable and bracket- that's a big can of worms you got there especially if you have 700R4 behind that engine. I suggest that you get yourself very familiar what happens to 700R4 if TV cable is not set correctly (quick death!!!) Since you have a carburetor intake you'll need to find a throttle and TV cable bracket of early 80's carb car or truck. The key to 700R4 longevity is a correctly adjusted TV cable and correct bracket / lever arm geometry. I am not kidding here - we are talking some serious money if that 700R4 goes out (unless you have 5 speed there). When I did my last conversion this is a setup I used - your maybe different:


So far 1500 miles transmission operation has been trouble free and firm .

After taking a look at that TPS sensor - that spot on intake was used for carburetor choke stove (not for EGR).

On third gens alternator was mounted just above PS on the driver side. In the seventies alternator was placed on passenger side above air pump. By the look of those brackets it appears that are of the disco area SBC. I suggest that you contact the maker of that electrical water pump for suggested belt routing.

//RF

killacamaro

iTrader: (5)

Hey RF. Welll I have a T5. There is a good amount of play in my pedal. Will I need a new throttle bracket??
Thanx for the pic of vac lines. Now what do or where does the EGR go on the edl-2101 intake??? I thought that was the EGR hole. Under the. TPS sensor. Also a friend of myne sed I dnt need the charcoal canister. Was wondering if I can take it out.
Well for the water pump. I went back to mechanical pump. I want to put the ALT of the passenger side. Is that possible with my brackets I have?? I think I got the ryte idea wit the belt routing. I'm usoing V belt. Not serp. I have all the pulleys.

Thanx again for the help. If u have more pix it woulkd help greatly thanx

RFmaster

Hey

1) Edl 2101 is a non EGR intake manifold. See Edelbrock web site:
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ormer-sb.shtml

It is a nice carburetor manifold for a stock replacement/street legal for 302, 327 and 350 V8s with OEM 4-bbl. Q-Jet or Sqr bore 1966-72 (1973 non-California) cars, 1966-83 trucks and Suburbans except when equipped EGR. Edl 3701 is a stock replacement legal part for 305, 350 and 400 V8s with OEM 4-bbl. and EGR for 1972-86 and GM corporate engines with 350 V8s; 1981-86. So as far simple EGR goes you are out of luck. If you have to pass emission testing you will fail visual inspection - missing EGR. So that $25 intake may not be a bargain after all!

2) Your friend is wrong regarding charcoal canister. It is needed to vent fumes from the gas tank. ECM controls a valve that allows gas tank fumes to be burned under certain operating condition vs. being vented into atmosphere. A gas tank full of fumes on a hot summer day can be dangerous.

3) I am not familiar with third gen clutch system. Generally speaking excessive end play indicates worn out parts or mis adjusted cable or linkage. If it is a hydraulic system it can be worm master/slave cylinder rods, etc. Do not know - better take a look and make a separate post in trany section.

4) In your posted photo you have a passenger side alternator bracket. This is what my engine compartment looked like over a year ago. Since I have headers OEM PS bracket can not be used without extensive mods and a spacer. I used a MARCH 20160 aluminum bracket from Summit to mount PS of water pump - works well for me. Since you have later version of the pump - check MARCH for a suitable application guide.

killacamaro

iTrader: (5)

Ok well i got the 2101 for free, and i could not find a 3701 anywhere, and when i did, they were asking a **** load.soo a freind had a 2101 with elongated bolt holes, soo i took it. now here is the thing. i took off alll smog and air ****. i dont want or will not have any of it. i can pass inspection because my freind is a mechanic and he can pass my car. soo....... can you explain what i need to do. to block off the EGR.

2) guess ill leave it in, and connect it to the TB

3) i think it is because the location of the Throttle bracket. its not my transmision i am talking about here. i am talking about the throttle cable. the one that opens n closes the TB. its like a little longer, soo i am wondering how i make it shorter and tighter.




4) yes i know i have a pass side alt bracket. is it a 2 piece alt bracket or 1?? and do i need those bars that hold stuff in place also?? and for the ps pump i was given 2 other brackets. they came off a 3rd gen that was V-belt. sooo i just need to know where i connect them to on the block. i know i dont need an aftermarket 1, just have to follow old v-belt setup.

5)brake booster line, do i need that round cylinder thing on the line? also do i need to use a hard line? or can i just use rubber hose to connect the booster? look at the pic it is the stock 1 but it is in the way.

RFmaster

On #3 I faced the same problem - throttle cable too long. There are many ways of solving this problem. I took a simple one - Spectre 2431 or 2430 universal throttle cable.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Spectre/865/24...743857%7C11369

There are other ways to solve - finding a carb cable and bracket of LG4 car. Do you have cruise control??

On #4 - it's been a while since I looked at these brackets. Middle one is definitely used for alternator. The other two might be used with PS - I just do not remember.

On #5 you need that inline can - just run SAE 30R9 hose to the intake manifold tap (not TB)

//RF

killacamaro

iTrader: (5)

ok im gunna get the universal one. soo how do i hook that up?

yeah i know the alt one and stuff, i just dont know how to hook it to the engine block, think u can find any pics?

ok i will do that but wat nipple? or fitting do i use to put into the intake manifold?

RFmaster

Alternator

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/alte...lp-134688.html

killacamaro

iTrader: (5)

hey RF welll im still shyt out of luck, i have no clue how to intent to the ps pump bracket and how to install it.

the alt one i think i have figured out but the 1 i have doesnt sit rite, so im making adjustments.---the question i have is, can i use a serp alt on v-belt setup or do i need a v-belt alt??

after i get them on, i need to finish my vac lines..-----wat needs to be removed for the cruise control? and what lines do i block off since i am not using the EGR valve??

RFmaster

Hey Camaro

You may need to spend a bit of money to get right PS brackets. IMHO, I would keep things simple - stay with old fashion V belt setup. Your alternator brackets position alternator for old style V belt setup. You can get MARCH 20165 aluminum bracket kit from Summit or Jegs to mount metric style PS of the water pump - pre '78 uses 20160 which worked well for me.
http://www.marchperf.com/instruction...structions.pdf
Since you have later version of the pump - check MARCH for a suitable application guide. See photo and link above.

For EGR you need two things - do not connect vacuum hose to EGR vacuum solenoid (just cap off vacuum line) and in EPROM you'll have to change EGR enabling temperature to FF (255F) so that EGR will never gets enabled. EPROM location is dependent on ECM type (service number) and broadcast code used. You know how to burn your own EPROM?

//RF