nichoulas83Z454

im building a 350 right now and im aim for about 375 hp. my 700r4 is stock with 120,000k miles. its still shifts good. i know it wont last long behind an engine like that. but if i baby it, will it last 6 or so months? i am thinking of having it rebuild first though. im just kinda planning things out right now.

82-T/A [Work]

Sure... if you never floor it, it will last just as long as it would attached to any other motor.

But.. can you resist not flooring it and powerbreaking?


Todd

CaysE

I'm pretty sure GM makes a rebuild kit for the 700R4 that will have it handling that kind of power. A while back, a thirgen was built as an HO car with a ZZ4 and 700R4 that even passed emissions. Try a couple sites that sell GMPP and Crate stuff, you should be able to find something.

Pikerboyz91$1LE

I have the same tranny in my 91' 1LE and it's junk. If you want a kickbutt tranny for the power, get a 350 turbo and have it built with heavy gears and rings and etc.. Only thing you will need to do is modify your cross-member bolt location. Worth the effort thou. I'm doing it myself. Good luck to you either way.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't a Pro-Built tranny be able to take it?

88IROC350TPI

My transmission lasted a whole 1 day behind a little more power than 375HP.

Goodbye peice of crap expensive 700R4 hello cheap and sturdy TH350.

Pikerboyz91$1LE

Wouldn't a Pro-Built tranny be able to take it? - Gunny


Well lets see--cost more to rebuild 700R4 and weighs more and yet still not as strong as 350 turbo.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

stock for stock, your right, a th350 will last longer than a 700r4. but a th400 will last longer than a th350, and a lenco will definelty last longer than a th400. there are different types of driving styles here too. if all you want is to go straight real fast (which i do very often) then a th350 is wonderful, but if you want to go down I75 at 70+ mph with decent gas mileage, a 700r4 is better. if the tranny is in decent shape, and you BABY it, it will last as long as you need it too. if you have the money and want to stay with the 700r4, then check out a pro-built. i say if you want to have fun/with decent gas mileage at cruising speeds, check out a t5 with a good clutch.

CamaroX84

It really depends on your driving style like everyone said. I have a stock 700R4 trans in my 84, except for a 2600 stall ACT converter, external trans cooler, and a TransGo shift kit. I drove the car for 2 years with about 325 HP no problem. I've been driving it for a little under a year with 450 HP, and recently it started slipping between 2nd and 3rd gear, but thats only when I floor it and shift at more than 6000 RPM. So normal everyday driving it feels like it did before the motor swaps, I just can't floor it and shift from 2 to 3. Maybe it's a fluke of a tranny, or maybe the shift kit and the trans cooler really did prolong the life of the trans. I would NOT recommend a stock T5 for that kind of power.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'll hazzard a guess that it will last "7".

What unit of measure is behind the 7 is what is in question.

7 minutes, 7 miles, 7 burnouts, 7 hard take-offs, 7 hours, 7 days, 7 weeks, 7 months...

cormyr

i destroyed four 700R4s in a year with about 325hp, two were moderate build-up with a shift kit. finally had an extreme racebred tranny built with everything in the book for beefed up parts. i'll let you know how long that one lasts.

thirdgen88

7 quarts of leaked transmission fluid..

gilley's86

If you spend the money to have it built, a 700-R4 can take about as much abuse as a TH-350. It all depends on how much you want overdrive. I'm still considering puttin in either a 700-R4 or maybe an old 4 speed when i get my motor finished. That or, find a wrecked 4th gen and take its 4L60-E, if you want an computer controlled tranny, no need for shifting, or so I've heard. The tranny will shift better in overdrive that if you personally shift through the gears. Just thought I'd add my two cents.

Gilley

MrDude_1

anyhoo, to answer your question....

it has a much better chance of lasting that long if you put a good shift kit in it... id reccomend the transgo one.

if it starts to slip after that, baby it until you can afford a new trans.

ME Leigh

I like that, it pretty clever!

88_Import_Slaye

Ok, here's where my input can help. I work at Bowtie Overdrives (700r4.com, bowtieoverdrives.com) and I can help. We build our level 1 trannies to a basic stock build with minor upgrades. We rate those at 300hp. The level 2 we rate at 400hp and our level 3 we rate at 650hp. The level 3 has some special parts in it (torque drive parts).

The major thing is ppl dont know how to PROPERLY setup these trannies. They install them and they NEVER check pressures or anything.

700R4's are wonderful, i woudlnt run anythign else (Except a 4L80E if i had to). They have a nice first gear (3.06:1) and offer a very nice overdrive (0.72:1).

If ppl woudl just learn what they are doing when installing them, they woudlnt have problems, and ppl wouldnt hate them.

Most ppl get used trannies and have them rebuilt by a local shop. YES THIS IS A WASTE OF MONEY!!!! First of all, look at another of our sites tvmadeez.com and read the tv 101 article. Your TV spring is old and worn out, so right off the bat, your going to have an incorrect tranny. The spring is now shorter than when it was when it was brand new, so the pressures are going to be higher because the plunger is now set deeper inside of the bore at idle, this raises pressures so it's going to shift harder. Most ppl dont like that, so they let the tv cable out until it "feels" good, well, while doing so, they move the plunger up the bore too much so off idle, they do not get the proper pressures and they slip clutches.

Also, most ppl never get double down shifts which they should with any 700R4. Thats because the TV system is not right.

ANYONE who is having problem siwth their 700R4 should call Bowtie Overdrives, even if you dont want to buy anything, just call in and get the free information. We ARE THE BEST in this industry when it comes to the 700R4/2004R trannies. We specialize in these only and have only done then for the last 9 years.

We put a 2004R behind a 427 in a 69 Z28. This guy had NOS and ran on racing fuel (pure drag car), he literally ran 9 seconds. He put out around 675HP normally, and around 800HP on the juice.

If you want a long lasting tranny, get a th-400. But doing so will lower the life of your engine and give worse gas milage. TH-400 are VERY tough trannies. But the 700R4 has a more agressive 1st gear and an overdrive so you can drive it normally on the street.

another thing is ppl burn them up cuz they are ignorant to the fact that you must run the lines through the radiator and not just some cooler you put under your back bumper. These should run at 30-50 degree's COOLER than your engine temp. And you should NEVER run a non-lockup torque converter with an overdrive.

Fro more info, email me Dustin@700R4.com

ljnowell

or just spend the money on a th350 that would last as long for 1/2 as much.

88_Import_Slaye

You have to realize the benfits first. A BETTER, more agressive first gear, means harder/better launches and an overdrive to keep the RPM's low on the highway, that emans longer life for your motor and more money to be spent on other stuff rather than gas.

I'm just telling you the benfits, i'm not arguing. Now for hardcore drag racers, why woudl you want an overdrive anyway, stay with a th-350 or a 400.

thirdgen88

88_Import_Slaye, those TV Cable kits you guys have ROCK! :hail:

And, that TVMadeEZ site has information that EVERYONE with one of these transmissions NEEDS to read and understand!! :hail:

88_Import_Slaye

I know

ljnowell

I agree entirely. Dont get me wrong, when i said just buy a th350 and be done with it, thats what I meant. If you are making a car that is solely designed to drag race (still be driven on the street, just geared towards drag racing), the th350 is the way to go. Honestly, If Icould afford a 700, I would

THEGENERAL

yeah i have to agree with ljnowell if your gonna build one for the strip and drive on the street go with a th350 if your insistant on having overdrive and you have the budget to build one or buy one built then go for the overdrive ....

hey 88_Import_Slaye how much you guys charge for the level 2 and 3 700r4s ??

cormyr

i agree that first gear in the 700 is pretty beastly but the jump in ratio to second is too much. you lose way too much rpm and lose time climbing back up. third is fine and fourth is essential if youre driving on the highway especially with some gear in the rearend. i wouldnt use anything else on the street but if i had designed the 700 i would have geared first and second a bit closer and certainly would have built it alot stronger. stock it is pathetically weak, built it is pretty much the choice for the street vehicle.

CrazyHawaiian

Well, I dont know exactly how much power my car is making (I have not Dyno'd it), but its at 127K miles right now and the bone stock 700R4 is still working great. Stock L98 specs are 245hp/330tq and the blower is supposed to add 85hp/95tq so I'm guessing somewhere in the 320hp/420tq range. Car was boosted at 75K miles, so thats a little over 50K miles at 400+/- ft/lbs of torque. Just depends on how you drive the car and how much traction you get like others have said. I dont drag race my car regularly so I rarely have large ammounts of stress generated by hard launches. All the racing I do starts at a roll hehe, not easy on the drivetrain, but also not as hard as drag racing.

Crayz9000

From what I've heard from one of the tranny specialists in my area, the early 700R4s (pre 1989) had a number of issues with weaker-than-they-should-be parts. The later 700R4s fixed those issues.

88_Import_Slaye

The 2004R has a much better 1-2 split and is recommended to anyone looking for that. I was gonna go with a 2004r and 3.73 gears, but i didnt want to redo my drive shaft, etc.

We only use the "series 3" trannies, these being 88-91. The earlier ones had many issues that were fixed in the series 3. So, if you get a junk 700r4, get one thats 88-91.

cormyr

yes and from what ive heard the 200r ends up being stronger than the 700 when its all built up.

eric17422001

I actually had some jerk come up to me when I had the hood of my S10 (in sig) open in an Advance Auto Parts parking lot tell me I had a "piece of S##it" when I told him I had a 700. He said a 200 was an even worse POS. Made me wonder why they put them behind the GN's, we all know they don't make any power....

Did I ask his opinion? As they say "Some men you just can't reach"

This has been an on going argument on this board- some will tell you a 700 is a POS, and to get a TH350. But talk to some other guys including Dana at Probuilt, and he will tell you that in the early 70's guys were yanking out those "POS" Th350's and replacing them with Poweglides.

Basically, I spent three times as much to get a built 700 as I would have if I put a Th350 in there but I don't regret it one bit- I have put 25000 miles on my truck and a lot of it was highway use, right around 3000 RPM at 75 mph with 3.73's. Iget 16-17 mpg with a non-locking 2200 stall converter and with a stall I'm sure I'd get closer to 19.

IroczInOz

This may sound like a dumb question but why do you have to run the trans lines through the radiator? I installed a Trannie cooler mounted it in front of the AC condensor and bypassed the radiator.

If the transmission is supposed to run 30-50 degress cooler then the engine then would it not have a negative effect running the trans lines through the radiator.

I read that the optimal temperature that the transmission should run at is around 160. Your water temperature exceeds that people usually run at 180 - 190 and not even uncommon to run at over 200deg F.

So if you run the trans lines through the radiator you are basically warming the trannie fluid up more then cooling it? And heat is the biggest enemy to the transmission.

88_Import_Slaye

Corrcet, the "cooling" system is actually a "temperature control system". It's isnt just for cooling. The system is meant to rapidly bring your tranny fluid up to operating temperature and keep it there.

If you take notice, the water tamp gauge, it's at the HOTTEST part of your motor, before it goes to the radiator.

The heat excahnger is on the outside of the rdiator, meaning it's at the cool side of the radiator, so the cooler water will help reduce tranny fluid heat. The trans temp gauge is in the pan, when means it's the coolest part of the system, so if you think about it, it will be clear.

Look on the bottles of tranny fluid, it has an optimal operating temperature. If your 700R4/2004R is running @ 200 degree's, then you have somethign wrong. We have been doing custom installs in customer cars for 9 years and every single one leaves our shop running at the optimal temperature.

Now there are exceptions, for example, I had to run an external cooler in my camaro along with the radiator because i had a 9" converter. Of course, I modified my coolign system afterwards since chevy decided to make camaros run hotter.

You might need a new heat excahnger, or a new radiator, or both. I'm not saying you shouldnt run an external cooler, because there is no reason not to, but you should ALWAYS run the lines through the radiator.

Remember, it's a "Temperature Control System", not a "Cooling system".

IroczInOz

Hmm well might have to think about running it via the radiator lines again then into the cooler. I should buy a temp gauge for the trans to see what temperarture it runs at.

ator

So, if you drive it with the plunger "deeper set inside of the bore at idle" instead of adjusting till it "feels good" is this causeing any damage? Don't get me wrong, that was pretty informative on the website about the "short spring syndome" but I've already been driving for a while now with the plunger deep set (about 1 year and 1000 miles) and am now wondering if I may be causeing any damage.

I installed a shift kit (B&M) about a year ago and thats when I set the plunger deep set. I can't remember if it came with a new TV spring but I guess it didn't. Man, I really don't want to have to drop the pan again just to install that spring.

incognyto

I've heard many times that your better off to skip the rad lines and go straight for the external cooler or two , a lot of older rad coolers can become corroded / rusty, and that you can run your tranny when its -80C or so and not have anyprobs with it, <--- that is straight from a tranny shop, why not have your system running SUPER COLD, mine almost never goes above 100F if I drive somewhere's outa town with the lockup on it's below 100F, sometimes hot day's it will get to 150, but never really any higher, it doesn't even take 5 min's of driving nice and the tranny's OFF the bottom of my autometer tranny gauge, that's hooked up to the HOT side of the tranny cooler. ANY comments would be appreciated, or actuall reason's as to why you have to have your rad cooler hooked up rather then JUST an external cooler. THX

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

I like how this thread has been bumped up from the dead at least twice. Means people are clever enough to search

I have yet to drive my car enough with my new trans and converter in it (built by Jimmy's in Mundelein, and a 3200 vigilante 9.5" converter), so I have no idea how hot it gets. I'm running a Flex-a-lite 20x7x3/4" trans cooler in front of my radiator (no AC condensor). I have the hot line coming into my external cooler, then through my radiator, and then back to the trans. From what I read, if you just use a standalone cooler, it can overcool the trans, which is just as bad as overheating it. The way I have it set up, the external cooler should drop the trans fluid temp, and then the radiator will bring the temp back up a little bit...just hopefully not up to the 185 mark where my coolant temp stays.

Once I get a few other things worked out in my car, I'll be driving it a bit more with the temp guage hooked up, and I should be able to get some readings. I'm hoping to keep it right around 160 as mentioned above.

88_Import_Slaye

because it isnt a cooling system, it's a temperature control system. The whole point og GM doing it was not to save money, it was to rapidly bring your trans fluid up to operating temperature and keep it there. Read the bottle of any tranny fluid, it has an operating temperature range! It was meant to run in that range! Your tranny temp should be 30*-50* cooler than your engine temp at all times (measured in the pan). That is direct from Bowtie Overdrives in which I worked for 3 years, who specializes in 700R4 and 2004R only.

Now, I agree that rads can get crud in them. Get it flushed or replace it.

Edit: Please remember that the heat exchanger for the ATF is on the COLD side of the radiator, it is submerged in the already cooled off engine coolant, your temp gauge reads at the hottest point on your motor before it goes into the rad.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Mine is still going strong with many passes down the strip. It does have an Art Carr shift kit and a nine clutch 3-4 kit. I'm running Mobile One with a trans cooler. By the way I have 330RWHP. My next round of mods may put it over the edge though.

88_Import_Slaye

how many miles? You can modify the valve body to allow higher pressures, that should hold any more power u give it.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

About 70,000 miles. Around 3,000 miles on the 3-4 shift kit. Many passes down the strip in that 3,000 miles and selected streets.

88_Import_Slaye

In all honesty, as much as I like these trannies, my next one will be a th-400. Great price, rock solid and work well with 4.10 gears.