dheck

Well...Spent about $2500 on a new engine. Bought all top of the line parts and I decided to do all the work myself. I have worked on cars for a long time but never fully did a bottom end rebuild. Not much to it really. Thats why I dont understand what happend. It is an 83 camaro with a new 350 assembled by yours truley. I have had the car running for about a week but had only driven it about 30 miles because it was running very hot and I couldn't figure out why. The car ran great, but ran at like 240 degrees. So I thought I would just take it to a shop and they could tell me what was wrong. So I went out and started it yesterday and this is what happened. I pushed in on the clutch and turned the key and pumped the gas. The car fired right up. I let it run for about a minute and then I put it in neutral and let up on the cluth and gave it a little gas...No problems yet, so I reved it up again to help warm it up because I didnt have the choke set just right yet. Then...BAM...I heard this lound bang. Not a backfire but sound like to pieces of steel being slammed together. Now the car wont do anything. You start it and It just drains voltage because the starter cant turn it over. I cant even turn it buy hand. Any ideas. Spun bearing? Busted rod? Any way of telling whats wrong without pulling the engine?

CraZ-28

If you can't even crank it over, it sounds like the bottom end frooze up on you. Unfortunately your not really going to know without puuling it.

ede

have oil preasure? my guess is a rod bolt broke, next guess is rod hit the cam, but i'd need to know what cam and rods.

dheck

Well...not five minutes after I posted this I got a call from the shop. They said that the crank case is full of antifreez. Any sugestions? Did a rod puncture the block?

dheck

Ok...Update. I busted a rod and cracked the block. Huge dent in the oil pan. What causes a rod to snap??? Talk about bad luck. I guess if you want something done right you probably shouldn't do it yourself. I am out of alot of money. And only got to enjoy the car for 30 miles. I really think Im going to cry. Must be bad karma. I must have been a really bad person in a past life.

turtle

top of the line parts and a broken rod dont add up. need to check on that, a quality rod wouldnt just break.

ede

agreeded rods don't just break, and when you do have a rod failure it's usually the bolt not the rod. if you have quality parts correctly installed and good oil preasure nothing should of broke. i build engines for several guys that restore old cars and trucks and these guys do something to save a few bucks that really worries me when i do an engine for them, but i tell them up front no guarentees and have never had a failure yet.

dheck

Hmm...Top of the line parts...except the connecting rods. I guess just bolt on top of the line parts...good pistons, but obviously thats not my problem. I didnt think that with having a 280-300 horse engine I would need new connecting rods. Had great oil pressure. I used the original connecting rods, I just had them cleaned and machined. Maybe thats where I went wrong. Id like to think that I learned something but at a very high price. Should I replace all of the rods now or just the one that broke? Keep in mind that I have spent over $2500 and my piggy bank is totaly empty.

ede

if you broke a rod your block, crank, and cam are trash, if not run out and buy a lotto ticket because you're damn lucky. did you put a cap on backwards?

RB83L69

Man that hurts to just read about it. I had 1 or 2 in my younger and even more foolish days that did stuff like that, kind of makes you feel like getting a new hobby.

Sounds to me like it broke a rod bolt.... that's a common result of re-using stock ones, and over-torquing them. If it was a spun bearing, or almost any other common bottom end failure, it would have given you some warning. My lesson from having that happen was to always replace the rod bolts, and never over-torque them.

You could replace just the one rod or whatever else is trashed and hope for the best. Of course you'd never know which one of the rods is ready to go next. Try to figure out what really went wrong before you either spend money on stuff you don't need, or fail to spend money on something that you do need. If it's a broken rod bolt, definitely change all those out, and get your rods reconditioned... again. Removing the bolts distortts them, so if you do that but don't recondition them, you'll have oil pressure and spun bearing problems.

dheck

Whats a good way to tell if the cam and crank are bad? I know the block is bad. Just curious, but what would cause the cam and crank to go bad if I just broke a rod?

RB83L69

Well the rod is supposed to be bolted to the crank, and when one breaks it usually trashes the journal it used to be on, puts a huge gouge in it, because what usually stops the motor from turning when that happens is the now-exposed crank journal hitting the remains of the rod that are in its way; and the rod is only like .100" away from the cam normally, so it usually hits the cam when it flies apart. The break in the block could be down around the bottom of the cyls, or it could be around the cam journals; both are common results. As far as telling if they're bad, I doubt you'll have any trouble at all spotting the evidence once you tear it down; if the cam comes out in multiple pieces, it's no good any more, and if the rod has a gouge in it that's too deep to turn down, then it's no good either.

89 Iroc Z

You probably were running lean, which is what was causing the overheating and the engine to blow.

dheck

Is there no good news????? It never ends. Gee I cant wait to pull the engine out again and dump all of the money I dont have back into it again. <~~~~sarcasim. Things like this really make me not want to work on cars. I dont know what keeps you guys going. I think Im going to have to park the car untill I get another butt load of money. Dont get me wrong...I love my ls1 fourth gen but theres nothing like driving a third gen. It really makes me mad to see it parked.

SSC

Well the good news is the top of the engine is still good, the heads at least. If the rod bolt snapped and you werent running the engine at a high rpm theres a good change the cam is still good and the lifters should be reuseable since they only have 30 miles.

'87FAKE-IROC-Z

turn that frown upsidown,
if the cam is in multiple pieces, you now have variable valve timing!, and to think people pay money for that newfangled technology!

just attempting to cheer things up, that really sux. I've been thru a fresh engine going south as well.
good luck

Riley's35089rs+

That is a bummer! I am in the process of building the 327. I thought about assembling it myself....then I remember the 700r4 I attempted to rebuild.. $300 for the local machine shop to do the assembly/bore....Money well spent I think.
Sorry about your luck..

Tom91Bird

iTrader: (5)

Here's what happened to me when I had my brother rebuild my motor at Votec. I bought everything new except reused the rods, and it didn't even dawn on me till afterwards that the old motor and rods had been hydrolocked, and my idiot brother never checked them for straightness. Not trying to put all the blame on him cause I should have known better and said something. I tracked it down to tweeked rods cause when I pulled the remaining rod bearings, half of them were worn down to the copper on one edge and they only had about one hour on them from brand new. So I'm sure that some of them were riding fairly hard to one side and one just let go when I got 3000 revs on it.

Tom91Bird

iTrader: (5)

another

dheck

I got a quote from a machine shop and the said it would be $2800 to pull the engine and reassemble it, then put it back in. And that wasn't counting a new block or crank if I needed it. I told them for that much money I think Im in the wrong business. I guess I will try to rebuild it my self...again. Can I reuse any seals, bearings, gaskets, or is it better to get all new? Maybe I should pull it and take it somewhere for them to do the bottom end and then I will just put it back in.

turtle

there are allot of reasonably priced engines you can order and simply drop in. do a search and you will find links to allot of good engines for allot cheaper.

TBI305Camaro

you can get a brand new goodwrench longblock for 1500$

ctandc

Maybe it's just me....but unless a huge mistake was made in assembly or at the machine shop when they supposedly "machined" the rods, SBC rods just don't break at low RPM..

I'll speculate my guess...


You said the engine ran hot from the get go. I'm betting on something that was causing the engine to run hot ( crap from the machine work still in the block or heads blocking cooling passages, clogged radiator, warped head, head gasket installed wrong etc could be ANY number of things )


240 degrees is TOO Warm for a SBC. ESPECIALLY if you were going by the factory gauge, as they are NOT very accurate either way, even when new.


My guess... and this is my guess only, is that a head gasket or something gave, causing coolant to get into the block. You cranked it up, revved it a bit, and the motor hydrolocked from the rod trying to compress all the fluid in the cylinder.


Just my 2 cents. I've seen this happen MORE than a few times on friend's trucks growing up...we'd go 4 wheeling, in the creeks, rivers etc, and they would get water in the motor. They'd eventually get it cranked and bend or break something from the water in the cylinder. I learned my lesson, and just pulled the plugs and let the water out...



HTH

2laneblacktop

Man I feel for you. I know exactly how you feel. I built a 400 with too much compression the first time and melted two pistons and blew a head gasket at the strip because it needed 110 octane instead of 94. So I took it out and totally rebuilt trying to relieve any weak link I could find like new gaskets and bearings where needed. Then I put it back together and 20 miles after that the crank wore a hole in the oil pan because the pan I bought wasn't capable of the long stroke so it wore a pin whole in it and leaked like mad. Needless to say, the engine came back out again. I had to buy a new pan and put it all back in once again. The engine costed me about 5K to begin with then all that crap happened. Not to mention I am a college student that had only the money that I made from summer work. I was so angry, but I love working on them and I learn something new each time. So my advice is, spend the money and do it yourself again if you liked it the first time, but don't take anything for granted. So if you are working on it and you think of some $5 part the you could replace that may make a difference. Go ahead and replace it, maybe thats one thing you won't have to worry about in the future. Good Luck and I wish the best for you. I am now on my third attempt for some kind of good luck. I hope you the best and low costs.

Scott C

From what you've said happened, I would NOT take a chance on that shortblock. For the time & money you'll spend on disassembly, inspection, new parts and assembly, you really are better off buying a new GM shortblock or better yet, a complete longblock. A brand new, high perf 350 longblock can be had for under $2,000.

Think this through before you jump into it...Get the car back from the shop, pull the engine yourself, and drop in the new engine of your choice. Then, when you are bored, disassemble the old engine and see what damage was done. Lesson learned...

dheck

It's really sad to hear all of these stories. I guess Im just lucky that I dont have to pull it 3 times. I think I am just going to buy a short block. I have bult an engine and at least I can say that. Now its time to leave it up to the professionals. Pulling it is really no problem. Might take me a weekend to pull it out and put the new one back in. I just need to come up with a way to get the money. Plus I can't use the old block for a core. I am a college student as well. I saved for a long time to get the money to do this engine. Oh well...I have learned my lesson. It was a good experience, but I don't think it was worth $2500. But hey...you can't win them all. I will keep you updated on my progress...and thanks for letting me cry on your shoulders. It's like a big support group.

RB83L69

I would recommend not throwing in the towel so easily... if you have very little money in the first place, it makes the most sense to try to learn from what happened, and try it again.

A junkyard core motor isn't very expensive. Of all the things you will have to replace, it's about the least amount of money. That, a set of pistons, a set of rod bolts and reconditioning, a cam, and an overhaul kit of gaskets, rings & bearings; plus whatever machine work, and you're in business again.

You don't get better unless you overcome your mistakes or just plain misfortune as the case may be.

Do that, and one day, you'll have a motor you can tell everyone with pride that you did the work, and it runs great.

badgta

iTrader: (4)

dude, i can't say enough how sorry i am to hear that.. your so proud of the first motor because you built it yourself and then **** like this happens....... but like rb said, don't let this stop you from trying again......

it's somthing how the rods gave like they did..... but, i'm sure someone out there has even orderd a high priced set of new ones and one of them be bad.... unfortunantly things happen beyond our control and things, like your motor are unfortunantly the result....

so when you start on your next motor and your unsure or scared about a certain thing, just go over it as many times as needed till it's right and i'm sure without a doubt you will build and have your motor the way you want and running awsome.....

again, sorry to hear and i hope you are able to get it back the way ya want.....

dheck

You are totaly right about being able to say you built it yourself. Its such a good feeling isn't it. What kind of rods should I get. As you can already imagine, I'm on a short budget. The car is back at my house so when I get off work I think I will start the pulling of the engine. Unfortunatly I live in Indiana and it's like 40 degrees and I don't have the luxury of being able to pull it into the garage. If all else fales...at least I will get good at pulling the motor.

laiky

If i were you, i'm not thank ***, my motor is still running. I would go buy a GM crate shortblock, about 1200 bucks. put your top end and cam in it and enjoy your car. It will handle 300 hp no problem with cast crank and 2 bolt mains.

cheapest and quickest fix, plus its warranteed!!

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

Hey I feel your pain, my first motor, well it didnt grenade, but after about 2000 miles it was...well... fogging for mosquitoes, to put it lightly. I found out later that the main cause of it was 2.73 gears with 35" tires (my monster truck) plus my buddy breaking it in at 60 mph on the highway. All that combined with me not being able to tune a carb = shot rings. So when I decided to put a 383 in the camaro, I was skeptical about building it myself. But I knew if I paid someone to do it for me, that I'd always have it in the back of my mind, that nagging doubtful voice telling me that I cant build a motor. But that's just me, if I fail at something, I'll keep trying until I get it right. But it's up to you, if you're not comfortable rebuilding it, then your best bet might be to get a crate motor.

ede

i'd give the rebuild another try. might ease your mind a bit if you had someone to guide you along, if not you always have thirdge.org for help. first time i rebuild a auto trans, a manual trans, or set up a rear end gear set i didn't know what i was doing and they all worked. take your time, do a little reasearch, have the correct referance material and you should do fine. the first engine i ever did, a 283 in my first camaro way back in high school i paid a friend on my cousins 50 dollars to help me rebuild. mostly i watched and he worked and explained things to me. i didn't know much then and not sure i know a lot more 25 plus years later but i stumble along from job to job with out to many problems and i've managed to not hurt myself along the way. good luck with what ever you decide to do.

Benny

I would just go out and buy a crate motor. Goodwrench performance 300HP for about $1800, warrenty, and hopefully no worries.

dheck

Well, I got the car back yesterday, and I got a block from a junk yard today. Haven't pulled the old (well barley old) engine yet. I guess I am going to attempt it myself again. Here goes nothing. I am anxious to see what the extent of the damage is. It is getting pretty cold in Indiana and I am not looking forward to doing this in the cold. I think you tend to rush when its cold out. I will try my best to take my time because I dont want this to happen again. You guys convinced me to do the rebuild myself again. I will just keep my fingers crossed and update you on the progress. Thanks for all of the support.