mgilorma

So I'm in the process of doing an lt1 cam swap in my 305 and bought new valve springs and an engine gasket kit to go along with the cam swap. I'm a little confused about the exact order of what goes where when putting the new springs and valve seals back on the head. I've attached pics of what came with my gasket kit, any help would be greatly appreciated.

SMURFN' Z28

iTrader: (2)

Throw all of that away, and get some positive seal viton seals for all the intake and exhaust valves.

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

i agree. usually you dont run positive on exhaust but you can if you fix them,

put the ones on the INTAKE and what you have left over will be the exhaust. the intake are supposed to be tight - oil in the gas is bad.
but the exhaust need oil so AFTER YOU PUT THE INTAKES ON so you cant mix them up, run a rat tail file through the exhaust ones so that they are not as tight.

then you are good to go.

mgilorma

I'm pretty sure the "ones" you are talking about are the rubber looking seals with a metal band around them. And these go on the intake valve, which has is the valve on the left of the number one cylinder. And from what I've read it looks like the plastic caps are what people refer to as umbrella seals and they go on the exhaust valve. Still a little confused about the o-ring looking seal and its location. If anybody has installation pics or something that would really help.

Thanks!

mgilorma

I'm pretty sure the "ones" you are talking about are the rubber looking seals with a metal band around them. And these go on the intake valve, which has is the valve on the left of the number one cylinder. And from what I've read it looks like the plastic caps are what people refer to as umbrella seals and they go on the exhaust valve. Still a little confused about the o-ring looking seal and its location. If anybody has installation pics or something that would really help.

Thanks!

mgilorma

I've attached a pic of what it says in my Haynes manual.

I'm a little confused by two things:

1. I didn't see any "Spring Dampers"

2. I've read somewhere that the o-ring seals go on after you compress the springs right before you put the keepers back in. But according to the manual, the they go on before the retainers (and "oil shield" on exhaust side). Don't the o-ring seals go in the second notch on the valve?

mgilorma

I am thinking about not even installing the "umbrella" seals on the exahust side, mostly because I just don't see how they are going to get on there, but also because there wasn't one on there to begin with.

Has anybody done vavle seals like this before?

thunder85

iTrader: (1)

i'm going to join this thread as I too have this question. I'm a newbie to rebuilding heads, and got a set of 083s machined with 2.02/1.6 valves, and nothing else. the summit kit i purchased ( http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-174000/ ) came with 16 vitons and no umbrella seals. any suggestions or documentation as to what we should have on our valves and the order of assembly would be greatly appreciated.

mgilorma

Update:

On the intake valve, i installed the positive seals and o-ring then the retainers and keepers. On the exhaust valves I installed the o-ring, then the umbrella seals, then retainers and keepers. \

It looks like the o-ring gets pushed out of its groove when I compress the springs, but when the valves go through their motions the o-ring seal will pop back into its groove.

First I tried compressing the spring then putting on the o-ring, then keepers, but couldn't even see the second groove on the valve, so I just gave it a try as I wrote above. I think it should be good.

astrosurfer

you have correctly installed your new valve stem seals.
congrats.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

that's a good "write-up" if you want to call it that. do you have a run down of parts you used (with some p/ns maybe). that'd be great
thanks!

cmack

you install the o rings after the valve spring is compressed then the locks

mgilorma

If that is true, how do you install the umbrella seals on the exhaust valves?

cmack

you install the umbrella seal on the valve then the spring and retainer then compress the spring and put the seal on then the locks the seal goes on the lower grove of the valve

mgilorma

Look at the picture from the manual above. On the exhaust valve, the umbrella seal (oil shield) sits on top of the o-ring seal.

cmack

i work at a machine shop in the cylinder head room and the o ring goes on the lower grove of the valve and the umbrella goes down agaist the guide i put cylinder heads together every day and that is how the shop does it

mgilorma

just to be clear, the "umbrella" is the white plastic cap looking thing, right? I know that some people put positve seals on both the intake and exhaust. Is that what your shop does?

From what I've read the umbrella seal rides up and down with the exhaust valve which is why it made sense to me that the umbrella went on top of the o-ring.

But you are saying that the manual is wrong and that i should install the umbreall seal before the o-ring on the exhaust valve? I'm not trying to give you a hard time or anything, just trying to make sure I understand what is going on.

cmack

we do install postive both but only on heads with brass guides. in our shop we use soft rubber umbrella seals and they go on frist

paulo57509

With either intake or exhaust valve:

Place umbrella or positive seal over valve stem. Seat the positive seal around the valve guide. Umbrella seals just cover the guide loosely.

Position the spring and retainer (and rotator, if you have them) over the valve and compress them.

While the spring is compressed, position the o-ring on the valve stem in the bottom groove. Do not release the spring tension or you'll cut the o-ring.

While the spring is compressed, position the keepers.

Release spring tension slowly.

DONE.

cmack

i completely agree i already said that

mgilorma

cmack,

thanks for setting me straight, if you hadn't said anything I would have done the second head the same way I did the first. What I should have done when I first started was to check out if I could see the groove for the o-ring with the retainer and keepers on the valve while it was off the head. If I would have done that in the first place I would have seen that there is no way the o-ring could pop into its place as I originally thought. Don't always trust those haynes manuals I guess.

Check out one of my intake valves!!! they were pretty much all that way, wow!

cmack

no problem

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

im going to jump back in. attila the fun was talking with me and indicated that you could use the same seals but open the exhaust ones with a file so that they get a little more oil, as they need it.
and no i was not talking umbrella.
it was a great idea from atilla the fun and i got 16 for intake and exhaust.

eseibel67

Reviving an old thread because it's the best one I found for my problem. I just installed 16 valve seals incorrectly. I installed the little "o" rings BELOW the retainer, but they should actually be ON TOP of the retainer.

Heads are on the car, and I think I might leave them as is because it looks to me like the seals (Fel Pro) are doing most the sealing job, not the "o" rings. The question is: What are the consequences going to be for ignoring my mistake?

astrosurfer

I really don't know why the top o-ring exists. There's nothing to seal there.
If I recall a set I bought had o-ring for under and above the umbrella. I could be mistaken but I'm sure of it. I did however switch to all rubber. And I'm not 100% sure I have every o-ring above the retainer either because I believe I put them on before I compressed the spring. I'm not going to let it bother me because the stem seals are doing the job I intended. I do not recall another motor I have worked on where I put o-rings under the keepers.
Just my tuppence tho'.

eseibel67

Ya, I don't remember any other valves that use this setup either. But I asked a guy I know at a machine shop, and he says the purpose of the "O" ring above the retainer is to reduce the amount of oil running down the valve stem and onto the actual seal. But you can live without it, also.

But since I'm so ****, I took them all apart again and installed them properly.