88gta_hiflyer

iTrader: (1)

I recently noticed a tiny bit of metal shavings on the end of my oil dipstick. The engine does not knock but does have a ticking sound coming from the lifter valley. I've taken off the valve covers and everything looks normal there. No visible damage. How can I figure out what part of my engine is eating itself up without tearing it completely apart? The engine runs fine and doesn't lack power at all. This is the first time I have run into something like this and I'm not sure where to start. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

ntomsheck

iTrader: (1)

When was the last time you checked your oil? How new is the engine, how big are the peices?

When an engine is breaking in, small amounts of metal shavings come out (most of which from the rings smoothing out the bores). Is it getting any worse gas mileage that it was say a year or two ago? I had metal shavings once, so I examined my camshaft and most (if not all) of the lobes were chewed down 1/32 to 1/16" of an inch. A select few were down by an 1/8". I replaced that, and all 16 lifters... and the timing chain cover gasket... and the oil pan gasket because my engine is a 1 peice oil pan gasket. Needless to say, no more metal shavings. BTW, if it is your cam, put an upgrade in it - I just found out about a week ago that my ideal cam is the exact same price as the stock one I bought 7 or 8 months ago

88gta_hiflyer

iTrader: (1)

Hey thanks for the reply. I check my oil at least once a week and full sythetic royal purple 5W30. My engine is the original 88 LB9 with about 90K, well past the break in period unfortunately. The metal shavings are very tiny but this problem just started.

I was wondering about the cam and lifters since there seems to be some noise coming from the valley area and there is no knocking. Isn't that less common with roller cams though? Would my best bet be to remove the lifters and check out the cam lobes with a flashlight or is there anything else I should check first? Everything under the valve covers looks good, no visible damage.

ntomsheck

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, everything else to check for metal shavings requires you to tear into your engine. I'd start with cam/lifters. My engine is hydraulic roller as well, and like I said before the cam was still chewed into. The valvetrain clunk is also what's cluing me in. I had a valvetrain clunk (it's more than a tick) as well. It's sometimes caused by collapsed lifters. A flashlight might not be good enough to examine the lobes - I had to pull my cam out. If you have access to a boroscope, or can rent one, thats what I'd recommend.

Whatever you do, I'd hurry up and do it. Those metal shavings floating around in your oil are bearing killers. The vast majority will be stopped by the filter, but in something that spins up to 5,000 rpm, those little guys can migrate...

88gta_hiflyer

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yep sounds like its time to tear into the top end. The hell of it is that I just replaced my fuel injectors a month ago and could have easily taken the intake manifold off then, but I guess that would have been too easy. In any case I am hoping its just theh cam and/or lifters and not anything in the bottom end. I wouldnt be all that heartbroken if I just had to end up throwing in a more aggressive cam, you know, out of necesity.

Any cam reccomendations for a 305 tpi (roller block) mated to a World Class T5? I'd like to keep the stock valve springs. I'd also like to use my stock prom and I've got a MAF setup so I'd think the ecm should be fairly flexible for a cam swap. I'm on a bit of a budget so an LT1 cam might not be a bad option but is there anything a little more aggressive in roughly the same price range? Thanks in advance.

ntomsheck

iTrader: (1)

Eh, you're gonna run into trouble here and there. You wont be able to keep the stock prom - it will need to be re-tuned no matter what cam (other than stock) you throw in there. MAF can take a cam as long as the LSA is 112deg and higher. Unfortunately, 112 isn't too aggressive sounding, you need to get to the 110s or lower before it starts getting choppy and mean sounding. Also, most of the aggressive(ish) cams I know that work will fuel injection have more lift than your heads can handle. Call a Comp Cams, or Lunatti rep and tell them your scenario. I think the LT4 hotcam has just slightly more lift than those heads can handle, so if you're up for pulling the heads off, it would probably be 50 bucks to cut them down the couple fractions of an inch (but if you have them off, might as well go as far as you can and open up your choices)

Str8upChevy

I had this same problem back in February that started out as a light ticking noise and eventually got louder. Unfortunately just changing the oil and filter wasn't enough as you can clearly see by the pictures below. It ultimately seized the motor and now it has to be rebuilt. Definitely get on it now before it does the same thing to you!!!

Also, if you end up pulling the intake manifold and find the problem,....before you put it back together, remove the drain plug in your oil pan and pour about a gallon of diesel fuel down into the lifter valley to help wash out all those metal shavings. Diesel fuel is is oil based so it works better than gas. After you get it back together fill it up with cheap oil and a filter, run it for about 10-15 minutes, drain it and change the filter. Now you're ready for good oil and a new filter.

Here's what was left in the bottom of my pan when I drained the oil,....and also here's what it did to my crank:



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88gta_hiflyer

iTrader: (1)

Wow that's pretty bad! I don't plan on driving the car much until i get this figured out. Its not a daily driver, just a toy. So was it your cam and/or lifters that initially went bad and caused the crank damage?

On a separate note, does anyone know off hand how much valve lift I can get away with with my stock 305 tpi heads, unported?

Str8upChevy

It was a roller lifter that broke. A big chunk of the roller broke off and allowed all those little needle bearings inside it to drop down into my motor. With the roller being broke it took out the cam lobe. Then with all the needle bearings floating around my engine, they eventually got chewed up and all the metal shavings went throughout my motor. So, now I'm in the process of rebuilding it.

Anyway, here's a couple pictures of what happened to the lifter..................



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Gumby

cutting open the oil filter can help see if its grabbing stuff, it can help clue in on if it was just a fluke or not.

a magnetic oil drain plug can do that also.


Sound like your dip stick got magnatized somehow though.......

88gta_hiflyer

iTrader: (1)

Well at this point I think I need to tear into my top end before I go much farther. I was under the impression that roller lifters rarely go bad but after talking to you guys, obviously it happens. My lifters seem pretty suspect between the noise and the metal slivers. Those shavings are coming from somewhere and it seems like if my bottom end was getting chewed up I'd have a hell of a knock, which I dont.

I had probably better go ahead and get a cam picked out now so I can be ready to buy it and throw it in if needed. I'd love to hear some cam suggestions if anyone has any.

ntomsheck

iTrader: (1)

I think max lift the 305 heads can take is around .46 to .48" Throw an LT1 cam in, keeping 1.5ratio rockers and you should be good. Save the rest of your money for a 350 You'll notice the difference between 45 cubes.

88gta_hiflyer

iTrader: (1)

Haha. I had a feeling the 350 idea would come up at some point. I used to own a 97 formula with an LT1 so trust me, I know how much fun they are. For now I'm gonna keep my little 305 but I could see a 350 swap being a possibility in the future.

As far as cam selection goes, I've been doing some research and I'm really leaning towards a zz4 cam at this point. It's got quite a bit more lift than the LT1 cam, .474/.510 I beleive, but from what I keep reading the stock heads will handle it as long as the valve springs are upgraded to allow for the extra lift. I've got shorty headers too so I should be good exhaust wise. Someone has got one for sale locally for $60 so I might go ahead and grab it.

However, I've read some mixed information as far as what valve springs to use with the zz4 cam and stock heads (without machine work). Some people recomended LT4 springs but others said they wont fit the stock heads. Anybody know what valve springs WILL work with a zz4 cam and stock heads? Thanks in advance.

88gta_hiflyer

iTrader: (1)

update: I finally got around to tearing into my top end and I think I found the source of the metal shavings before I even got the intake manifold off. My distributor gear appears to be a bit chewed up with fresh looking wear on the gear. I'm still going to take the intake manifold off and check out the lifters and cam lobes since I've already done 75% of the work. I may replace the lifters anyway just to be safe but now I'll have to decide if I want to go ahead with the cam swap anyway. I picked up a zz4 cam and LT4 springs and retainers locally for $60. Just trying to decide if I'm up for doing all the work for the cam swap.