terrorsquad77

89 305 tbi cranks for a while, then then cranking ..stutters... Best way to describe it- ran fine this morning- won't start tried starting fluid to push it, and nothing why is it stuttering when it cranks?

irocz28_350

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like its trying. Are you getting spark?

Mad_IROC-Z

Don't worry about why its stutters. Not starting should be your main concern.
No start even with starter fluid sounds like there is no spark.

terrorsquad77

I have spark- still nothing

Mad_IROC-Z

Have someone watch your injector spray while you crank it.
Usually starter fluid will give you some kind of start or try to if there is spark.
Maybe its just your fuel pump is shot. They can work until you shut it off and try to start again.

Being its TBI that would mean disconnecting a line and intalling an adaptor to hook up a pressure gauge which most people wont have either one.
So looking at the spray may be what you have to do. Also make sure the plugs are attached onto the injectors.

terrorsquad77

I'm getting fuel, it won't even fire for a second with starting fluid-

I've never had a prob with this motor- I'm stumped, I have spark, fuel, and it cranks,

Would a timing chain stop it from rolling over?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yes a timing set problem would prevent it from running. Possible, but not the first or most likely thing. But easy to check: line up the timinig marks, se if th erotor is pointed to either #1 or #6, spin the motor for a bit, line em up again, check the rotor. If it points to #1 or #6 again, not the timing set. (BTW the chain hardly ever fails... rather, it's the cam sprocket; the phenolic teeth crumble to dust and fall off of the chinesium gums on the sprocket itself)

Once that's ruled out, then if it won't fire with starting fluid, it's probably a spark problem.

"Has spark" isn't necessarily good enough. It needs BIG FAT purplish-white sparks that are as wide as the electrodes; not, little weenie blue-yellow ones that look like your lawn mower or touching a doorknob after walking across carpet. Don't be fooled by puny weak ones.

Start with the simple stuff: pop the dist cap off, check the rotor. They fail by carbonizing in the very center, right under the contact. As cheeeep as those are, just change it out.

If that doesn't fix it, come back and we'll figure out what to look at next.

terrorsquad77

I'll try the distributor cap and rotor- i have both already- the spark wasnt big fat and white, it was a little dim, but it was on a semi rusty exhaust manifold- i assumed the spark was low because the rust wasn't giving it a clear path for the arc, i will check that tomorrow. The car is currently stuck on a jobsite, which is why any suggestions from the rest of TGO are not getting prompt responses, I literally have 10 min at a time with the car.


Also, thanks to everyone who's trying to help, I don't know anything about motors.... every little bit helps!

Mad_IROC-Z

Well that makes a big difference there. If the spark is going to jump to a ground its going to be the same no matter what.
You should also be able to hold the wire away from the ground some also and still have a very strong spark.
Do be sure that if you hold the wire it is with something insulated!
Don't want you getting stunned and pooping yourself...... at least not without a camera close by.

ASE doc

One thing to check is the condition of your plugs. If they are fuel fouled due to lack of or weak spark, they may not fire. Even if the weak spark is cured. While you've got a plug out, check compression. Low compression may be a sign of a jumped timing chain. Once it's running, you can verify cam timing with a vacuum gauge and/or a timing light.

The stuttering could also be a bad starter or a weak battery causing the starter solenoid to click on and off.

terrorsquad77

All right- new distributer cap, new rotor- spark is orange, not particularly bright, and same problem- what now?

ASE doc

See my post above. Fuel fouled plugs?

terrorsquad77

Brand new plug

ASE doc

Okay then. Ill refer you back to checking compression and looking for signs of a jumped timing chain. You can try to match rotor position with #1 on the cap, with the crank at #1 TDC on the balancer. If you haven't adjusted timing since the problem started, the rotor should line up. If not, the timing chain has probably slipped. use a 5/8" socket on the crank bolt(remove plugs first) to turn the crank slightly back and forth while watching the rotor. The rotor should follow the crank with only two or three degress of crank rotation between(normal chain slack). If there's much more slack than that, it points to a loose chain.

terrorsquad77

sorry its been a while, the car has been buried in 50 million feet of snow, finally starting to melt away. Now, im not exactly capable of motor work, how do i know when everything is in the proper position? is there a morons way of checking?

excessiveego

I am having a similar problem currently, so if one of us figures it out be sure to let the other know.

Last fall if the car would sit for several days it wouldnt start when i tried to start it, it would turn over for several minutes, then start firing but not really catching and running, then it would start and be fine as long as it was driven daily.

then it started starting fine and stalling immediately after, then you start it again and it's fine.... that is what made me park it for the winter a month early, ive now been driving it again for a month since the weather has been nice, and today i went to start it after it has set since Thursday and it wont start, it fires but wont catch and run.

I have fuel and spark, originally i thought it might be an electronic chock issue since it was only really acting up in the cold, but today it was 50 degrees. My list of things to check currently is Cap, Rotor, and Coil

torque_is_good

to both "no starters", not to sound simplistic but you need air, fuel and spark.

Air is the easiest, just take off the air cleaner for TBIs and carbs or go right to the throttle body for TPI's.


next is if they are TBI's, yes, you can see fuel spray. But, the sure fire way to be sure is to eliminate the fuel pump and test the pressure, or, you could drip a wee bit of gas down the tbi


to the stumbler- have you ever replaced the fuel filter?

as for spark, you need to be sure that it is leaving the coil and going to the distributor. You can ground the coil wire and see if you get spark

next, you must be sure that your timing is at least close and your plugs and wires are good.

as for a simple way to try and find # 1 tdc, disconnect the coil wire, remove plug #1 and stick your finger on the hole where plug #1 was.

have someone bump the engine a bit. You will feel a little suction or a good push. It's the push that you are looking for as that is the power stroke

do that a few times to be sure you can tell the "push" and have the freind/helper stop bump cranking

get a plastic bag tie wrap, stick it into the cylinder and see if you can tap the piston top. DO NOT drop it. If you can tap, then remove dist cap and the rotor should be pointing somewhere around 3:30 to 6 using a clock as you stand in front facing the engine. That will allow you to get close to initial timing within 1 terminal post.

excessiveego

solved my problem, atleast i found the cause.... distributor is alittle loose, enough that it can be turned by hand, turned it enough to get it to start and put it in the garage, re-timing it is the next project

terrorsquad77

It's been awhile, but here is where I'm at with this thing. I've replaces ignition control module on the distributer, the ignition coil, cap, rotor, plugs, wires. No spark. So now where do I go from here? the timing chain doesn't seem to be the problem, I pulled the acc belt and moved the crank pulley, and it doesn't seem to lag with the rotor. Am I missing something here? It seems like I've pretty much gutted the ignition system. I have power to everything else in the car, a full battery and a headache.

redcamaro1988

I had a similar problem with my 88 305 TBI and come to find out it was the pick up coil on the distributor and I too changed plugs, wires, coil, cap/rotor, and ignition module. I dropped a new distributor in and now running like a champ. I figured it could be worth a shot.

astrosurfer

Have you checked all your grounds....engine etc.
Do you have power at the coil.
Could be a faulty ignition switch.
With all that new ignition stuff and still no spark...it kinda seems to me that it points to a power issue with the coil.
Why do you have such little time at the car?

terrorsquad77

how would I check power to it? Which plug do I check on the connectors? I only have a limited time because the car is at my work, I get out of work and only have a few minutes at a time because I have to go to school. Weekends are tough because it is an hour away.

astrosurfer

It's one of the connectors on the side. that you can unplug
PINK wire IIRC. NOT 100% on the colour though.
Do you have multimeter? Should be 12 V+ at that wire with ignition on. That wire comes from your ignition switch.
I hope this helps.

terrorsquad77

Thanks, I'll check that first chance I get, also just out of curiosity, what fails in a distributor, I know the ignition module goes bad , but what part of the distributor actually fails?

astrosurfer

I'd be lying if I told you I knew. But I don't.
All I know is the coil and the module. They are supplied 12V from that wire. No power at wire...no fire.
I wish you luck. Post back your findings with that wire.
I meant to take a pic of mines too.
It's NOT the 4 wire connector at the back. It plugs into the side from the bottom. I know sounds weird but that's just how I describe it sorry.

terrorsquad77

no apology needed, every little bit of info helps alot. I appreciate you sticking with this thread!

astrosurfer

even if my suggested problem is wrong, I still have the opportunity to learn from the correct answer to your issue, should I experience similar symptoms I can act and test appropriately.
This is all good reading for me.
However my next test would be that wire and take it from there.
I would have actually tested the voltage at the coil before I bought anything, but it may not be the problem, the power to the coil may be fine. Then it's back to the head scratching.
Still good luck.

edit...
I dug up an old pic and added an arrow.
It's one of those connectors.

88sporty

this sounds like a simple thing but i had a similar problem with my car, i found out that my dist cap was cocked and turned like a fraction of an inch, which made small sparks with new plugs, cap and all. hope this helps

terrorsquad77

Raising this thread from the dead. The camaro started and ran long enough to get it out from under the trees in my driveway, now it will start but I need to pump the gas and melon my foot on the pedal to keep it running. Hasn't been started since December,any help*