Cerridius

Ok so I'm finally ready to start my engine and this happens... What's going on? My granpa says that the starter is not strong enough to turn the motor and its just slipping. Its a High Torque Mini starter. tried 2 different ones.

Edit- Oh, the starter also appears to be turning the front accesories... So it has to be engaging the flywheel right?! Is it really just not strong enough?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txk952GpK_M

Engine is a 73 400SBC chevy. It was missing the 3rd starter hole so we had to drill that. Think that could possibly be a problem? We kept all thread in the new bolt hole becacuse my dad said it was not nessacery to have the smooth part in the hole like the other one because only threads on the bolt show in the hole.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The starter is working fine. TOO well actually. Your problem is not in that area at all.

The motor should be ALOT harder to turn than that.

Looks to me like you have absolutely no compression whatsoever.

Check to see that the spark plugs have been put in.

If they're already in, back all the rockers off 2 full turns, and try again.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

what he said, did you put the engine together, or it is as delivered?

something is wrong. the engine doesnt even vibrate or move, the torque of everything should be at least vibrating the engine.

Cerridius

Yes you guys are absolutley correct... I went out and was took the distributor out and I was going to find TDC again. Turns out. I have 0 Compression. Put my finger over the number 1 cylinder and the number 3 cylinder and no pressure. Used a compression gauge.. and no pressure. Thanks for yalls help so far I really appreciate it. Im gonna take the valve covers off tomorrow and my friend is gonna take a look at em.

Only thing I had to put on the engine was the Rocker arms and pushrods and oil pan. heads pistons and crankshaft were already on. I guess I may have failed at putting the rocker arms on.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yeah easy to do; especially if it's your first time building a motor, and you use the "twist the push rod" method.

Don't give up yet, don't get discouraged, and don't outsmart yourself. Think logically and rationally. Just back em off, and get it to run. Only run it for a couple of seconds if they sound REALLY wrong in some way; in that case, if they all clatter EXTREMELY (not likely) either tighten em back a half turn and try again, or if it sort of halfway runs but still seems too easy to turn, shut it off IMMEDIATELY, loosen em another full turn, and try again. Then once it starts up and runs halfway right, adjust em with it running.

One thing you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT TO DO, is crank and crank and crank and crank and crank forever. That is the most direct recipe you can find to rolled cam lobes. Once you get it somewhat right, it will fire RIGHT UP and you'll be able to straighten it out. Avoid the temptation to play with the "timing", don't mess with the carb, and be gentle with pouring the fuel (including starting fluid) into it.

Cerridius

Woot! You guys were right. The rocker arms were to tight. Fixed that, messed with timing and got it to turn over and start maybe on the 3rd try. Only ran it for a second though just to test, but it started.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Cerridius

Do you guys think it's possible we could have accidently bent a pushrod? We really didnt crank it that much when they were to tight. Only it only took 3 trys to start when we got everything right.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Youd have to really crank them down to get the valves to hit the pistons and bend them. You can check by just pulling the VCs and looking at the pushrods. They should, obviously, all be straight.

The best way to adjust them is to, no pun intended, jiggle the rod up and down. When the pushrod no longer moves, then your at 0 lash. The tiwst/turn method is hard to use if youve put break-in lube on them for assembly.

Also, you should adjust them one cylinder at a time with the engine off. To adjust the intake valve, you turn the motor over in the normal direction of rotation until the exhaust valve for that cylinder just opens. At that point, the lifter for the intake valve is on the base circle of the cam, and you can then set its lash. For the exhaust valve, you again turn the engine over, but this time wait for the intake valve to open, and then stop when its almost closed. At this point, the lifter for the exhaust valve is now on its base circle, and can be adjusted. You repeat this for each set of rockers for each cylinder. You can tell which are the intake and which are the exhaust by looking at the intake runners and header primaries. The rocker/valve that lines up with each respective runner and primary will then be the intake and exhaust valves. Ive always set the lash this way when putting a motor together, and it not only allows it to start as soon as it cranks, but also often requires no additional adjustment once break-in is done.

You can do the engine running, but if the exhaust is noisy, it can be hard to hear when your at the point of zero lash. That, and its also messy as youll have oil going everywhere.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Also, have you completed the cam break-in yet? If not, you may just want to follow the book method of adjusting them at #1 and #6 TDC to minimize the ammount you have to turn the engine over. With the other method, the cam has to make a few revolutions to complete the procedure, which is what you want to avoid at this point. Once break-in is done, you can come back and set the lash properly.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

As for the starter bolt hole, the unthreaded portion is for the shoulder of the bolt that aligns the starter. The shoulder is a larger dia. than the threads, and it acts as an alignment dowel to place the starter in teh right position. If youve used a standard starter bolt in that hole, it will have damaged the first few threads.

Cerridius

We used starter bolts that came with the starter. Seems like only threads go into the hole. The "dowel" part does not even go into the hole...

here is a quick start up video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZkdO6Pwzwg

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The lower part of the dowel also goes partially into the hole to align the starter. You can go back later, if need be, and drill out the first few threads to the same dia. as the other holes to allow proper alignment if you have issues.

Also, have you broke your cam in yet? Thats pretty critical with a flat tappet, especially if your using aftermarket springs. If not, what your doing by starting/stopping it will lead to rolled lobes down the road. Flat tappets are already bad enough as it is with the more aggressive ramps they use now. Not properly breaking it in will compound your problems.

When I start with a flat tappet, ideally I dont want to have to crank the motor more than one full rev. Prior to the first start-up, I bath the rockers and upper cylinders in oil so the engine can immediately go to 2k for the break-in as soon as it catches, and run it for 25-30 minutes.

If your using a retro-roller cam, then its not as much of an issue, but thats still hard on cam bearings which dont get much oil when the engine starts/stops.

Cerridius

Ya we still have to do the break in process. But the fuel pump is not connected. So we dont have a constant fuel source to keep the car running. Im trying to figure out what wires I need to use to turn the electric fuel pump on when the key is on.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Theres a two pin connector down by the oil filter that you can use to turn on the fuel pump. If you jumper it with a large paper clip, it will directly power the pump, if I recall. If you re-installed the oil pressure switch (which is what you SHOULD do), then the pump will come on after oil pressure rises above 10 PSI, or something thereabouts. Theres enough fuel in the bowls to start the engine, after which point the electric pump will take over and keep the carb full. If the bowls are empty, you can turn the pump on using the paperclip in the connector to prime the carb with fuel. Do some searches. Im pretty sure this has been discussed before.

As for the cam, how many times have you tried to start it? If youve done a bunch of start/stops, then you really run the risk of rolling lobes. If you where skimpy on the moly lube, and youve been cranking and cranking the engine, you might consider actually putting in a new cam and lifters. Its a lot cheaper than rebuilding or replacing the engine after the cam rolls its lobes and sends fistfulls of metal through the whole motor.

What are the specs of the cam, and what springs do you have? With stock springs, theyre a lot more tolerant of misuse. But if you have something that actually does more than just hold the valves up when the engine is off, you need to break in the cam ASAP after the build. IOW, no cranking or testing to see if it will start. Just start it and go right to the break-in RPMs.

Cerridius

Ya i know, no more starting for fun. There was a crap load of the moly lube on it, cam was all white from it. I think I may have finally got my fuel pump situated. Connected a bunch of stuff like people told me. Turned the key on and I heard like a bubble sound behind me and also the fuel PSI gauge on my carb was moving up and down at around 5-7PSI soooooooo Im guessing that means its getting gas to the carb =D

Cerridius

Ok so during the break in process, I guess we did not wire the fans right because they didnt not come in at all... So we just hooked them up directly to the battery to keep them on.

But that did not keep the engine from overheating, the temperature just kept going up.

Now my dad, went to go slowly take the radiator cap off... but there was so much pressure that it basically turned into a frekin hot geyser of antifreeze, so he got burned.... But why was there so much pressure? We are thinking that the thermostat is possibly stuck?

Are you suppose to keep the radiator cap off when you do this process?

Screamin86

iTrader: (1)

i always left it off when i first started a new motor and keep toping it off with antifrezze till its full after you start it. your not gona be able to fill it completely before its ever ran.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Which water pump are you using? There are ones for both CW and CCW rotation. Wrong pump for the application will result in no coolant flow. I think they may have different bolt patterns (old vs. new rev. rotation pump for serp. system), so its unlikely, but still worth asking.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

I watched a few of your vids, and to be honest, Id be surprised if it didnt roll a lobe or have some other issue. Not saying it to be a dick, just my experience with engines and flat tappet cams. The cam needs to be broken in first thing you get the engine running. Youve had lots of starts and stops. Thats a recipe for rolled cam lobes. Also, what kind of oil did you put in it for the break-in? Did you remember to add some ZDDP additive?

Could just be the starter, but it also sounds like something is too tight when its cranking, or not properly lubed during assembly. That could cause overheating right there if there is a clearance issue.

You should keep a real close eye on the oil for the first few oil changes and see how much metal is in it. Drain it into an open pan, and pour the contents of the oil filter in there as well, and inspect it. The first one will have a decent ammount of fine particulate in it, but it should be OK by the second or third oil change. A small ammount of very fine particulate is normal for engines with oil that has 3-4k miles on it. But if it looks like silver spray paint, then there are problems.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Also, if you leave the rad. cap off, it will boil over and make a mess if it has a cooling issue.

Cerridius

Were using a reverse flow waterpump for the serpentine setup. And we did used break-in oil for the camshaft.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Just out of curiosity, what are the specs on the valvetrain (cams, springs, etc.)?

Cerridius

Only thing I really know is the camshaft, but I have to find the paper for that with the specs. Dunno where its at. I don't know about the springs, they were just upgrade for the camshaft. The paper has some more info on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdiXhia0DY0 Idle afte the break-in was complete.