2004chevyman

where is the best place to get a total rebuild kit for a 327 small block

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Why do you need one for a 327?

Summit, Jegs, local engine shop.

2004chevyman

because i am putting a 327in my 86 camaro thats why

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Just curious, but you're doing this instead of a 350....why?

Guest

327's suck. Always worse than a 350.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

327's and 350;s are both great. different behaviours for both engine. the long debate has been just that long ago and very long. so let the PO do what he pleases and lets keep this on track.

as for his original question go on summit start selecting all your engines info and viola!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

They're EXACTLY THE SAME THING; one is just less of it than the other.

Both perfectly good motors; one is just .... more.

The other costs the same (more actually), but you get less. Kinda like.... you can go to the gas station, and you can whup out your $3.49.9 or whatever, and get a gallon of gas; but instead, if you're THAT kind of guy, then instead of a gallon, you can get only 3½ quarts if you want to. Yeah, they'll let you do that.

You get 327 parts the same places you get any other car parts. Auto parts stores.

Guest

Bingo. I guarantee you he's putting in a 327 because he, like every other fan boy, believes the magical motor fairies come out of hiding whenever a 327 is around and sprinkle their mystical go fast motor fairy dust on it, making sure to fill every nook and cranny especially that vintage carburetor that is no doubt mounted square on top of the thing, after which all you need are happy thoughts to put the power to the ground and unleash all of that fire breathing, soul taking, dragon roaring block's power.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

That's a little harsh.

If he's already got a 327 block prepped and ready to go, then 327 it is. Cheaper to build that then finda 350 and prep it.

Maybe he does have his head filled with dreams of a 327 awsomeness. That's cool too. I just wanted to make sure that he thought it all through before he did it, if the block isn't already done/prepped because in all cases, a 350 is the better option.

2004chevyman

i have everything ready to go except putting it all back together ,now i am not trying to be an ******* ,but this i what i want to put in my car all can put whatever in you cars ,now all i have now is a 2.8 v6 ,i dont want a hot rod to drink gas like crazy ,what i am building is something that looks and runs good and 'am putting alot of mney in it to i want it to be a show car it going to look like it just came off the show room floor ,and the 327 will give me alot more power than that of the 2.8i am building it to please me not no one else.

DeltaElite121

hope you're not expecting 37 MPG because that 327 will drink just as much as a 350 will. I see what you're doing though, and that's fine... just be realistic about it. Ultimately, we could ask the same question of "why did you go with a 350 when there are 400's" and then "why did you go with a smallblock with you couldve gone with a BBC or LS1".

The list goes on, and on.. heh. Just do it properly and you'll be happy with your results.

Guest

Exactly true about the gas efficiency. Buuuuutttt.....350 vs 400 is not a viable comparison. Two different classes. 396 vs 400? Sure.

zraffz

You are aware a less powerful smaller motor in a comparable car as a bigger more powerful motor won't have to downshift half as much and your tiny difference in fuel economy is pretty much nullified. (Not to mention you can run taller gears in a bigger motor/more powerful and still be just as fast with more top end and get way better fuel mileage).

I have this argument with the guys at work all the time. They say a 350 is a truck motor and all love the 327's cause they grew up with them.

DeltaElite121

My point was - why does anyone pick anything they do? I could've had a 496 or a 502 BBC in my car by now, but I opted for a 350 instead. I chose a 350 because that's what I wanted. One of these days, I'll probably try something different. I'm sure his case is no exception.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

:P That fits my top two reasons for doing the 327. It's ready to go and it's what you want to do!

Just build it right, don't scimp on parts. The old Vette 327's put out as much HP as the 350's of the day so its obvious it can be done.

Besides, for any of you paying attention, Just what is the new Vortec 5.3L that they're putting in Trucks? Yeah...a 325! haha So there. They're still putting 327's in trucks!

2004chevyman

finally,someone who understands thank you and it an old 69 double hump 327

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

The main determination of power level comes from the cam, valvetrain, cylinder heads and intake. The same heads/intake/cam on a 327 will make about the same peak horsepower numbers as it will on a 400. There are MANY other factors to this, such as compression ratio which is nearly impossible to keep constant, bore shrouding, and then there's the issue where above certain cubic inch levels the heads just fall off a cliff for airflow. But in an ideal world of numbers on paper, this is basically how it works.

In a real world situation you usually make a little more power with more cubic inches but it's not going to be anywhere near the 50-100hp people like to imagine. Consider the 305 TPI and the 350 TPI. They have very similar heads (but the L98 083 heads have bigger valves and are a little better), the same cam and the same intake. In 92 the G92 (these got the L98 cam) LB9 305 makes 230hp and the 350 makes 245. This is with larger valves in the 350, but you can see the power difference really is VERY small.

But as a general rule of thumb, airflow cfm from your heads will dictate your power potential, and the camshaft choice will facilitate it. Displacement just dictates the torque curve.

An F1 2.4 liter v8 makes less torque than an L98, but it makes nearly 4 times the horsepower. Horsepower is, simplified, torque times RPM. Horsepower is how fast you can spin the torque. A smaller displacement engine makes less torque, but if the top end flows the same amount of air as it does on the larger engine, the smaller engine is able to spin faster. It makes up for the torque decrease with an RPM increase. This is the 327 "high revving" myth, but the same applies to 305's. The reason it's hard to make a 305 fast, is because you hit an RPM wall with stock internals, and you hit a cost wall with aftermarket parts to handle those RPMs that makes it a lot easier to just build a 383 or a 350. That's ignoring the practicality of having a high revving, high strung, low reliability, poor low RPM torque engine in a street car. THAT is the reason people build larger engines.

Think about it, when you put the same parts on a 383, the 383 taxes the airflow system much harder, and it will make a certain amount of torque, but it will exhaust the abilities of the head/cam combo to flow enough air at a lower RPM. What you do then is you actually just throw a bigger cam in it. The bigger cam will shift up the RPM range. The great key is how big can you make the cam before it's awful to drive on the street, and how big can you make the cam before the heads wont flow any more?

The reason people discourage 302's and 327's is because to get the same power as a high performance 350 (or 383), you have to put a bigger cam in it, spin it faster to higher RPM's, and in the process you lose low end torque, gas mileage, long term reliability, and you have to then change your stall in your trans, your gear ratios, etc. It quickly makes the car a huge pain in the butt to drive around every day and the car just becomes a garage kept drag car that only goes as fast as daily diver 383 cars.

So, in short, power is determined by airflow, where in the RPM range you make that power is determined by your displacement and your camshaft selection. To make more power you either upgrade the cylinder heads, or upgrade the cam to spin it faster.

Those are Gen III adn Gen IV engines that have a MUCH more efficient cylinder head design. Those 5.3's make 300hp stock, whereas an L98 makes 245 stock. The 5.3's with a camshaft can easily hit 350, wit ha little work nearly 400hp on all stock parts in the bottom end. Because the heads flow so much better than any factory Gen I head, they can hit those power levels at reasonable RPM's, on factory stock parts even. It truly is an apples to oranges comparison. And a 325 isnt a 327. And there isnt a single part on those engines that will fit on a 327. It's just a good example of how you can overcome a displacement defecit with more cylinder head airflow, but that's primarily due to excellent design. They probably make 100hp more, stock, than camelhumps on a cammed 350.

Nope. A 327 block and a 350 block are exactly the same. You can destroke that 327 and make a 302, or stroke it and make a 383. Ironic that from a cost perspective, the most expensive is the 302, the next most is the 327, and then cheapest is a 350. The 383 is probably cheaper than the 327 too. The only exception is if he is re-using the 327's crankshaft (About the only thing on a 327 worth keeping, and then only barely), but I'd just sell that and use the money to buy a 383 crankshaft.

You shouldnt be re-using the pistons and rods. Modern rods and pistons are far superior than that 40 year old stuff. You also shouldn't really bother trying to use the double humps, they were okay for the time, but even stock IROC heads make more power than camelhumps. They're worth more to a collector than they are to a racer.

There's nothing wrong with a 327, especially if its a showcar. It will get a little more attention that way and if you're not trying to race people or make a high horsepower daily driver it will be great.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

You kind of hit on what I was getting at, butyou explained it. My Avalanche has a 5.3L motor in it. I don't know if it's the LS style, but it has Vortec heads on it which makes me think it's not an LS motor. Because of modern efficiency, they are able to put that motor in there instead of a 350/5.7L.

In so far as "if he's got it built', I meant if he's already got all the parts for it. I know a 327 uses the same block as the 350, I was simply meaning if he's already "ready" with all the parts for the 327. No need to waste money and go out and "re-buy" everything just to make it a 350.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Vortec is just GM marketting jargon for truck engine. GM used it from 96+. The 99+ 5.3 engines are all based on the same architecture as LS engines. In fact you can take a 5.3 and bore it out to accept LS1 pistons, and it's a 5.7 liter engine. Then put LS1 heads on it... and LS1 intake, all that. The only difference aside from bore size being smaller than an LS1 is the truck engines got iron blocks instead of aluminum blocks. The 96-98 Gen I 350's had the "Vortec heads" we all clamor about and use. They are truly the pinnacle of factory Gen I smallblock chevy cylinder heads, as they're an evolution of the LT1 heads. But they cant even hold a candle to the stuff that's on the Gen III and Gen IV motors. Not even close.

Depending on where he is in the build process, I agree. If he's got a pile of old parts to recondition and or replace and a freshly machined block... its smart to go 350. But if he's got a pile of 327-specific new stuff, then a 327 is perfect. Depends on his goals too. If he's trying to build a showcar that he drive occasionally, a 327 is fine. If he's trying build a 327 because it gets better gas mileage or makes more power or something, maybe he'd be better off with something else. The point is that if he's not aware of the advantages and drawbacks already, he is now, so he can make his own decision about it.

Guest

On what planet does 327=325?

Guest

Not true about the vette's horsepower. That's the older gross ratings

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Wow the amount of hate here is surprising..

So what if he wants to build a 327? I love out of the ordinary swaps and I've considered it for a long time. The motor holds no "magic" just because it's a 327, however it's an unusual swap into a thirdgen and it's got a special quality just because of that! I've been considering building a 302 for my next thirdgen, wonder what kind of hate i'd get for that

If you want a 327 go for it man. It's obvious it doesn't have the power potential of a larger motor but that doesn't mean you can't build it to have enough to be fun.

Summit sells rebuild kits from a lot of manufacturers. What exactly were you looking to do with the engine? Daily driver, weekend warrior? What power level? I can help you find a kit.

zraffz

It's not hate but why handicap yourself? It's like going to war on a horse instead of in a tank.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

no its hate, the amount of rudeness in this site lately if someone doesnt go with a 350 is phenominal, why handicap yourself is sorta a dick comment because theres even better than a 350. some people have a want, its their car their budget instead of everyone being a dick about it let him do what he wants, and why dont we be supportive so he can do it right, so we dont have yet another hacked up thirdgen. After all isnt that what this site is for? or at least its what i thought it was, the preservation of thirdgens and building a community, and alot of people, Even I, have strayed from that, and overall as one big picture it gets to be ugly.

Anyways back to topic, Seems like the guys purpose for the car is a solid cruiser, nothing more, he wants to be happy with what he has and have a little nostalgia so to say. I think if he wants a 327 then let him, theres absolutely nothing wrong with them.

zraffz

Not at all. You find me one 327 on craigslist that you think is cheap and I will find you a dozen cheaper 350s. Yes, their is better than a 350. But within a remotely close price range their really isn't.
A 400 will cost more money on an initial purchase to possibly suffer from core shift and will cost more (3-4x easily) to retrofit than a roller block 350.

With that aside, hypothetically let's say you find a 327 and a roller 350 for the same price. Which would you choose?

Now go buy your 327 and spend $400+ on a set of retrofit lifters. I'll go buy that roller 350 and spend $130 on a set of GMP LS7 lifters and still have 23CI over you for a cheaper amount of money.



EDIT:
Ultimately it is his car to do as he pleases but if someone told me they put a 327 in their car it holds about as much credential as someone putting a 305 in their car. Why spend the same amount, if not more money to have less?

Guest

It's not like we are saying he needs to buy a 500 bbc and run it on straight alcohol. Two comparable engines at the same price. One is just better in every aspect.

freaky

my buddy's dad had a 327 with double hump heads an a cam an 4 barrel in his 64 impala ss with a muncie 4 speed .that thing made that ****ing sled haul *** . i tried to by the motor after his dad died an they would rather let it set an rot in the weeds then sell it . but back on topic ...

2004chevyman

people come on now i posted one simple question and now all this ,i dont matter what he or she wants what matters is what i wanted ,if i wanted a 350 ,383 ,400 thats what i would have gotten but i got a 327 to go in my 1986 camaro ,yall can go a put whatever you want in your car ,and i will putmy 327 in my car

Lewspike69

I would try to find a local speedshop or engine builder to get the parts. You might pay a little more, but no shipping costs and you can get immediate feedback to questions you might have. It all depends on how much you are planning on buying. If one part, go online. If a series (maybe heads, cam, rockers, lifters, etc), I would go local.

morris living

you tell them chevyman, I'm sure they all have valid points, but I took a perfectly good 350 out of my 63, and spent a year and a half finding all the rite date coded parts to put an origenal 300 hp 327 in it It was pretty expensive, but thats what I wanted. now I'm a happy camper.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

All of that "63" stuff is all fine and dandy, but doesn't apply here.

OP, if you're having to buy a "total rebuild kit" for a 327 and it needs to include a crank, it will likely cost MORE THAN the EXACT SAME THING except with a 3.48" crank instead of a 3.25" one. (assuming it's a large-journal 327) If it's a small-journal 327, the "total rebuild kit" for it will cost MORE THAN a junk buildable 350 core plus a "kit" for that.

In other words, in NO POSSIBLE UNIVERSE will you spend less on this 327, than on a 350. Has NOTHING to do with a 350 being "better" (or not) than a 327, and EVERYTHING to do with THE PRICE.

You will find the gas mileage to be close enough to identical that you wouldn't be able to measure the difference. A one-jet-size mistake in your carb tuning will make more difference than neutering your motor by 23 CID.

Big picture, building a 327 is just not "A Good Idea" in this day and time, for ANY reason, when you have to buy all the parts. Now if you already had pistons and a crank laying there, then yeah of course, do it; but since you don't, and you have to buy SOMETHING, concentrate on how to spend the LEAST and get the MOST (I can't understand how anyone WOULDN'T want that!), and you'll find out REAL QUICK that a "free" junk 327 ISN'T the path to that goal.

1gary

I don't hate anything.It is a fact/law of physics smaller c.i. engines have to have a power curve in the upper rpm range no matter what you do to them.

I do have fond memories of building engines back then of engines from the 265's through the 327's.

morris living

chevyman simply asked for the best place to buy a rebuild kit. would someone please tell him. I dont know , I had a machine shop do the entire build.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

We told him.

Parts stores, Summit / Jeg's, speed shop, etc. etc. etc.

There's no one "best" place, as in, all the others might as well shut their doors and go out of business. "Best" is some combination of price, availability (stocking), service, shipping cost, the specific parts included in the "kit", helpful sales staff, etc. He's just going to have to pick up the phone or mouse and do a tiny bit of strenuous exertion, sorry, we can't spoon-feed him EVERYTHING.

Same places as any other size of motor.

Which doesn't erase the fact that he'll end up spending MORE and getting LESS than he would if he put "327" out of his mind and attacked the problem in the LOGICAL fashion, as we keep trying to tell him before we got a bunch of irrelevant "numbers matching 63" crap, that isn't the least bit connected to what he's doing except by the tiny co-inkydinky that the CID happens to be the same, thrown in.

zraffz

Nobody is hating on him or his idea of a 327. But why in the world would you want to spend more money to have less motor/power?

Honestly, Sofa makes very valid points. He is also very knowledgeable. With the exception of a few others on here the rest of the community is the blind leading the blind with minimal experience.

DeltaElite121

Just remember that once the money is spent - it's gone. If I was in the pursuit for more power for cheap (focusing on budget), I wouldn't be using a 327 setup. 383 strokers can be had for dirt cheap these days.

It's your ride though, like you said. Just do things the right way so you don't run into problems.

morris living

thats enough for me , I'm out of here

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

delete

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

The guy knows the advantages and disadvantages by now. If he wants to build the 327, let him build it.

Guest

Hahaha this is ridiculous. He's an idiot