big hammer

http://ls1tech.com/forums/street-rac...her-5-0-s.html

lol

time to start planning build I guess. I ordered an HSR. the TPI has got to go!

so far i'm thinking

TFS 175's

ported HSR

22lb injectors

this lunati cam with 1.6 roller rockers

possibly considering going .030 over on the pistons with flat tops to get my static compression over 10:1 for the aluminum heads.


any other thoughts? has to remain very streeable, no F\I or N2O. no race gas. has to stay stock-ish cubes.

big hammer

with the TFS heads i'm thinking that the cam will need at least a 10* split.

DeltaElite121

Ouch. You're going to get the hurt-on put down on you with that little 305. Ford 302 > Chevrolet 305 any day of the week.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, its not hard or costly to do a fox car. Sadly, I predict a hurting coming from the fox camp.
Unless they don't know what they are doing.

big hammer

doing it with a 350 would simply too easy. that's why i'm going with a 305.

8Mike9

So you'll dump all that money into a 305 to "try" and beat a 302 ....and if ya don't?


Slap to the head, shoulda had a V8!

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

dont build a 305, waste of money! get a 350 you won't regret it

DeltaElite121

You must have some slowpokes over by you, haha. Most of us (smart) Ford guys have long ditched the 5.0 in favor of the 351. I imagine you'll probably get some of that. 347's are also common because they are cheap to build.

big hammer

no more 305\350 nonsense. I have my LS1. why build a 350 if I have an ls1?

point is to build the best 305 that I can.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Dump the 305 and build up a 350 or your feelings will be hurt. No doubt. Unless the Fox car is a stocker.

rusty vango

I hate to say it, but the fox body is about perfect for a drag car. "built ford tough with Chevrolet stuff!!!!"

RyanJB

Gears would help a bit.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Let me hide a 100 shot on it.......

Seriously. I have been through these cars more than I like to admit.......

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

You can do NOS if your careful. Under the intake and out the back of the blocks china wall if you use a wet kit.
Dry kit, stick it in front of the air box unseen. Hide the bottle in the dash.

big hammer

nitrous is not an option for me.

my goal is to build the best N\A 305 that I can. if all out SBC power is what I wanted I wouldn't even bother with a 4" bore. I would go right to a 4.125.

8Mike9

Pretty sure you're 305 doesn't have a 4 inch bore.

Starting to think your whole post is well beyond guys sitting around talking about who has a "bigger cam".


Cough...cough...

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Well.........

If you are getting a HSR, go bigger cam and bigger trick flows...


LTs, 180-190cc heads and 525ish lift cam, will be a big wake up.

big hammer

that's for the guys who just keep saying "build a 350 instead", which has a 4" bore.

like I said if all out performance were the goal I wouldn't even bother with a 350.

Recaro trans am

iTrader: (1)

LOL hahahahahah

big hammer

has anyone ever measured max valve lift with 2.02 valves on a 305 with a .060 over bore? they're pretty much useless on a stock bore and max out around .450 lift

that's why I was going to use the TFS 175's, they run a 1.94 valve and still flow pretty good. likely plenty enough for a 305.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I would run the Edelbrock Etec 170s over the Trickflows. I have seen far better numbers from the Edelbrock Etecs. The chambers are a little larger, but nothing that could not be machined smaller. Flat mill them down to 60cc, use a flat top piston with 6cc worth of valve relief, a .038" compressed head gasket, and a zero decked block. With a stock bore you would be 9.45:1, .030" over 9.57:1 and .040" over 9.62:1, perfect for pump gas.

I would recomeend running a fairly tight LSA cam in the thing with a modest duration and roughly equal intake/exhaust duration and lift. The Edelbrock heads flow well enough on the exhaust side they really don't need the split.

If you are doing your own tuning and serious about making power from the valve limited, small cube engine you need a fairly aggressive hydraulic roller with roughly 276/276 @ .006, 224/224 @ .050, .565/.565" lift w 1.6:1 rocker, 108* ICL, and advanced 4* on a 104* ICL. (That is a Comp XFI 268 exhaust lobe on both intake and exhaust ground on a 108* LSA core ground 4* advanced) With 60* of overlap and the tight LSA she will have a nice thumpy idle, but have good off-idle and midrange torque that keeps pulling through the RPM band. You could shift this cam at 6,200-6,500 rpm in a 305 with those heads.

With the setup and cam above and 5.7" rods it would end up around 7.8:1 dynamic compression ratio and should be good to go on pump fuel.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I recognize that cam, lol...It is the Lunati Bare Bones that was on the clearance sheet. I have one in my closet that I have considered throwing in my 350 Express van. Its a good cam for a daily driver in a TPI 350 or LT1 but leaves alot of power on the table with a 305. The LSA is too wide for the small bore 305 to breathe really well. The 305 needs more overlap to get the airflow through it yet needs an early intake closing to trap cylinder pressure. Tight LSA is a good way to do both without sacrificing and choosing a smaller (less powerful) cam.

big hammer

I like the idea of a tighter LSA on the 305 but tuners do not. will 7.8 dynamic compression be enough? I was thinking about pushing it up closer to 8.5:1 on pump fuel.

does anyone have the flow specs of the edelbrocks vs the trick flows? I could get the compression up a little further by doing a .060 bore. it will also help it breathe better.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Y so low on the compression? If you have aluminum heads, get it up to 11-1 or so if you can.

big hammer

oh yeah. i'm going to crank it up.

considering the CC503 cam as well.

big hammer

narrowed it down to either hooker or dougs headers. they're supposed to work with the T5.

big hammer

Drac0nic

Within your parameters, this is what I'd do:

First off ditch the notion that you're not running the jug. He will probably be running the jug, so hide yours and let him have it when he's not expecting it. Cheating in grudge racing=getting caught. A buck fifty worth of spray will do a lot for you.

You should run 4.10s for gearing, or 3.73s minimally. You're going to want them for the cam you should run. That's not a terrible cam, but I would end up with something like this. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet The narrower LSA will make it have more average power, which is what you're going to be looking for. Stall speed I'd be looking for something like a 3500 (CALL A PRO) in order to make this combo work effectively.

Head gaskets, I'd be looking at some .027 Cometics with a small bore diameter, if you can do that. You may have to run 350 gaskets, at that point get something with say a 4.030 bore. You'll be ~10:1 flat if you have a 6CCs worth of valve reliefs in the pistons, and may want to shave a CC or two off the heads just to take care of incidental losses in compression.

Bottom end, a 335 would be fun but if you're wanting to stay stock stroke I'd probably go with a decent set of forged pistons and some capscrew rods like Eagle's I-beams. That will shed considerable rotating weight. I would also employ a good pan, and good oil control in the pan (windage tray) if it's not built in. You're actually going to try and rev this beast may as well optimize it for that.

The HSR should be pretty decent. Based on the CSA, you're going to be revving to 6800 or so to optimize for the runner length you have. I would want a 2" spacer for it to move the power band down some where the intake is more relevant. Without it, the engine will probably be done before the intake is. Not to say it won't make good power earlier.

Lastly, the heads themselves may need work to run the lift you should run. They have good flow potential out of the box, so I don't think that's going to be an issue. I would be conscious of the lift limitations and try to run the cam above with 1.6es, beehive springs/retainers and whatever tricks you need to get higher lift.

Headers/full exhaust are going to be a requirement. 2.25 would probably do, but I wouldn't be afraid of 2.5" true duals along with 1.625 Primary long tubes. They'll make great power although you could be near their limitations at higher RPMs.

Car wise, I would want slicks or DRs if you intend on hooking this. With the right stall and gears she should roast tires. I would also want SFCs and whatever it takes to actually get the car to hook. There's a huge amount of gain in the 60 foot, and you need to find it to make up for the lighter weight of a fox.

83Z28/L69

Its funny that you brought up the 335 stroker. I built one for my 83, except I running carb. I have basically the same custom grind cam and 4.10 gears. It made a super fun combo.

I'm more worried about the T5 holding up, without a little work.

big hammer

i'm going to get 4.10 gears. wont be to cheap becuz 9 bolt.

also comsidering stepping up to a cc503 cam. I need this thing to rev.

Drac0nic

Sorry, didn't see the T5 part. If you're afraid of breaking it, I doubt doing this is a good idea. The willingness to beat on it some is likely going to be a big differentiation. The 305 is a good cam, and should be stout in a 305 with the HSR to back it up.

big hammer

i'm not afraid of breaking the t5. if it breaks, it breaks.

big hammer

I've narrowed the 2 cam choices down to the cc503 and the 280 XFI.

big hammer

where's the best place to get a custom mail order chip from?

Ghettobird52

Wow I just realized the one thing tbi has better over tpi is flash tuning........

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

You can get the EBL with PFI mod or the EBL P4. Not to mention years ago I had a 7730 with NVSRam and SAJUPv4 with built in Wideband code.

big hammer

weighed the formula today. 1510 kilograms with a 1\3 tank of gas. totally stock besides the muffler.



that's 3322 pounds.

tyeo098

Have you done all the weight reduction mods?
The less mass you have to move means you can faster quicker.

big hammer

no weight reduction at all yet. that's the stock weight of the car.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

That video with the camaro beating the mustang, the camaro is a G92 optioned 5 speed... I forget the code for Firebird... but the later 90 and up MAP stock ones beat the stock mustangs...
Mustangs of that era had 225 hp the G92 and so had 230 but 70 more ft.lbs. of torque...

big hammer

if any other 80's cars want to play, follow the link in the OP and read the rules.