evoluzione1

Got an idea for this dual plenum set up. I hope I can explain this.
If you take the intake runners and cut them inhalf and take the top half and spin it around and weld it back together so that it faces outward. Then take the plemun, sensors and throttle body and mount it to the redone runner. It should now be over the valve cover. DO the same thing on the other side. When done you should have 2 plenums both hanging out over the valve covers, only one of them will have the sensors and the other one will have just linkage to control the butterflies, and yes you will need to cap off the the other side off of the runners on both plemuns.

What do you guys think? I know it would work but would I gain any thing other them just being different?

Any thoughts would be great.

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

I say go for it.it would take a whole lot fabrication but it could be done.

evoluzione1

This is a rough paste together of what I'm thinking. Would I get any performance gains? Am I just wasing my time?

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

performance gains?well that remains to be seen.there alot of factors when it comes to intake design.do a for intake design and see what comes up.
if you want some thing that no one else will ever have than i still say go for it.ya never know it could be the next big thing.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

Well, you'd have a fun time getting the throttle linkages right. Then you'd have issues with too much air at part throttle and idle, though it could be fixed. Then you'd have vacuum issues. Then you'd have MAF/MAP issues (though could also be somewhat fixed by ECM tuning).

Then you might have issues with hood clearance, or possibly brakebooster clearance or other issues.

If you have the extra parts and time though, I say go for it. I'm always for something that's different.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Sounds like you want a T-Ram

Morley

GM made one of those but it wa for a BB.

DeWynter

Efectivly you would only be doubling the Plenum space and making an extra curve in the tuned ports to slow down air. Though it would look kinda cool. Plenum area isnt really the problem with TPI its the runners in the intake base, not even the stock tuned port runners. It would also be more efective if you shortened the runners. eg cut half the runner off and run the plenum on its side. But then you would ahve Hight issues.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Also going back to the throttle linkage point, you might have a heck of time probably getting the TV cable for the 700-r4 in the right position.

Also I see how doubling the plenum can allow you to use 2 throttle bodies for double the flow at the start of the bottleneck, but like stated earlier the restrictive part of a TPI system is in the runner length and the base design (the runners exit then cross over in the base to the opposite head). If a GM built 502 can run off a 48 mm throttle body there's no reason why our motors can not.

Maybe if you remapped your design and ran the plenum then put the runners straight into the head ports on each side. It should be similar to a mini-ram or a LT1 style.

dcs89formula

I'm from mustang 5.0 land originally, and your idea sounds like the BXR manifold made for a while for these cars. Here's a pic:

http://ollavcom.nexpoint.net/naturalaspiration/bxr.html

It was an awesome design that never really caught on due to price and the fact that the throttle body was in the front (like ours) and required moving the distributor externally. Their website no longer exists and I can't find any really good pictures. If someone were to build something similar it would have good hood clearance, as the company claimed that the overall height of the BXR was shorter than the stock 5.0 setup. I've pondered doing something like this as well. Good luck.

dcs89formula

http://www.jgstools.com/custom.html

Here's a better pic.

Nitsuj86Iroc

in the manifold in the picture, the air would have to make a 180* turn on each side, so wouldnt that be far worse than going around a curve.

Is it possible to have straight runners that crossed as an "X" shape if you looked from the front. Then have 2 plenums, 1 on each top side of the X. so the plenums would still be feeding air to the opposite side head, and the air travling straight should be at higher velocities easier.

And the ECU would have to know that there is twice as much air going in as the single MAF tells it. if the MAF is only on one side.

QuickStyle

this just sounds crazy..... are you supposed to run dual throttle bodies?? im pretty sure the plenum isnt the main restriction in the intake system, the main restriction is the runners.

evoluzione1

I asked the question because I thought it would look neet and completely different then anything anyone has. The question about performance was because I don't want to loss any. I don't like doing things everyone else does and I like being completely different then most people. plus it would look good under this hood.

QuickStyle

yea, you could make it look good if you put lots and lots of work and thinking into it, but i dont think it would benifit any on the power side. but i would think that it would nearly be impossible because of all the sensors and the throttle body or bodies if you were thinking of using two of them.....

evoluzione1

Thanks for the help guys.

RSFreak

Did the T-Ram come on any F-body from the factory? I have a picture of one on an IROC from a car show a few years ago (I wish I had gotten a closer shot).

Morley

Not really "from the factory" but the Firehawks had them.

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

and only on the Firehawks :rockon:

Alexcoqui

Look at this... I made it in Photoshop, I think this is what you mean. But Im still not shure if the air has to go trough the mat sensor, wont that be a big restriction. can you have 2 maf sensors?
By the way I took the picture from 406TPI hope he dosnt mind, & thanks to him.

Dan8289gta

Wow ive never seen a body kit like that before thats interesting

rgarcia63

Running single blade 48, or 52mm Throttle bodies on each plenum on a common shaft might work. The signal from the dual MAFs can be combined into one so the ECM wouldn't have a problem determining air flow.

I would try it if I could shorten the runners by half.

Alexcoqui

but the runners would be longer not shorter, since the plenums would be further away from the manifold.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

why not try and do something like this ZL1 setup.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

Hey, that engine looks familar...kinda

It would make getting the valve covers off a chore

RSFreak

Couldn't you have one MAF from the incoming side and then "Y" it off to each plenum?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

what about something like this?



some how cutting the runners and crossing over thru the middle like this manifold.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Or something like this race style individual runner manifold with TPI plenum on top, or duals like the other link

http://www.comeracing.com/feature6.htm
http://www.comeracing.com/feature13.htm

Or Hogan sheet metal conversion EFI

this is sweet stuff!!

http://www.hogansracingmanifolds.com/

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

heres a pic of something like what you are talking about.

make two of these and flip them sideways and it will be wild looking. just attach them to the runner openings

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

I say get very creative and make an LSx style manifold and start selling them. I'll be first in line!

What kind of body kit is that by the way, that thing is SWEET and I'm usually not a fan of body kits....whether import or domestic.

About the MAF, your best bet would probably be to use one MAF and Y it off. Two MAFs with a translator isn't all that great of an idea, though I suppose it would work if you were to add the voltages and send them to the ECM since I'm pretty sure MAF voltages are linear...I'll have to check a BIN. Either way though, unless you are going to have some serious airflow, this isn't all that great of an idea, and even if you were going to have twice as much airflow, the stock PROM couldn't handle it.

The problem with using one MAF on only one side and doubling the MAF values in the PROM is that you get your correct airflow readings and twice as much air can enter the engine, but the MAF resolution (let's call this 'precision') gets halved.

One idea would be to go to an SD system and mount the MAP sensor in one plenum and then halve the MAP values in the PROM. Though again, kind of the same issue as mentioned above. You could put a piece of vacuum hose between the plenums with a T in the middle for the MAP sensor and leave the MAP values in the PROM alone...that would work great.

The other problem with dual plenum, being vacuum-related, is vacuum-assisted power brakes. You're going to have half the vacuum in each plenum (this is why I mentioned the above for the MAP sensor). For the brakes, I'd recommend a vacuum pump of some sorts.

I'd say to eliminate the cruise control if you have that as well. That'd just be another thing to rig up (though I suppose it would work if you were to rig the throttle linkages together).


Another option would be to use a singular dual-blade throttle body (vs. the idea of mono-blade TBs above) and dedicate one plenum to each blade. This would probably make the most sense and actually would be kinda cool if done properly. Actually I think I just may have to try something like this when I get my TPI setup off and put my LT1 setup on. Then I'll have my spare TPI to mess with

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Dude i dunno know what that austrailian stuff was but it looked pretty sweet.

evoluzione1

The kit is the evoluzione 1 and at the moment they have stopped making them but they maybe back. It's a very expensive body kit but I would do it again if I had the money because this thing is AWSOME looking and the attention is just unreal. I went to JEGS during the summer and literally cleared everyone but the guard out of the building. Now that's sweet.

Now for the topic. It sounded cool and the vision in my head was cool looking but I am no cumputer guy and it sounds to be getting complicated with formulas. I just thought I could build this over a weekend and be driving on monday but you are very right about vacuum and to me this may be the main problem. I am not one of those guys that does well talking about building things but I am just better at trial and era, but chopping up a TPI I have on the shelf I find hard to do but this may be the only way to truly test these type of problem. The vision in my head looks very good.

Morley

I guess I'll put in my 2 coppers on this.
You don't need/want 2 completely seperate plenums. What you do is make short tubes to connect the 2 plenums where the unused ports face each other. Either weld them in or try to arrange a bolt together setup. Run 2 throttle bodies with a spereate cable for each one, both connecting to the same place on the gas pedal. Only one throttle body will need the TV cable (or better yet, manual trans). You can put the MAP sensor on the rear most connecting tube, MAF would be too difficult and if the thing breaths well, the MAF will run out of resolution fast. All of the vaccum accessories would work just fine with both plenums hooked together. Also only one throttle body will need the IAC and TPS.
Now the hard part. You'd have to fab up your own runners because the stock ones will have the wrong angle. You may be able to make them shorter than stock too but they will have a pretty sharp bend radius.

Guido

Your guys drug dealer needs to cut you off. :shaking head:

Morley

Wha????? Translate to Engrish plz?

QuickStyle

he basically said for the drug dealers to stop selling you the crack.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

I thought there have been some very very good and thoughtful comments in this thread..

Red Devil

IIRC K-1 aka Euro-Works has come out with an evoluzione II kit. I think they lost their US distributor because of problems in the first kit. If anyone really is interested: http://www.kitcarmag.com/featuredvehicles/5649/
That was a good review article on the new kit which touched on a few of the previous versions problems.
I did look at this kit about 4 or 5 years ago (the evo I) and wasn't really impressed. I actually tried to buy molds for a ferrari 308 or some such. Lost contact with the owner of the molds (was in NH). I have yet to see the new evo kit.

As far as the dual plenum, what exactly is the point? Certainly not performance. If you want to be different, go with a T-Ram or a Hogan intake. There are not huge amounts of Mini-rams, LT1 conversions or stealth rams running around either. You'll spend as much on one of those as you'd likely spend with the fab, fit and finish. If you really want to be different, buy a big block and throw a ramjet on it. Certainly not a lot of those running around.

Guest

I guess I better not run 8 separate plenums or I wont have any vacuum left at all.

rgarcia63

Evo,
It's your car, time, and money. If you need help just ask, if all you want is support you got it.

And to all a Happy Thanksgiving.

Dan8289gta

Check out this wicked dual blower i saw it on ebay and thought of this post its made to fit under the hood of a camaro!!!Id buy it if i had the extra cash