mantiz85ws6

No start condition and this is the list of things I have replaced/checked.

A. New ignition module, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, coil, battery.
B. Checked fuel pressure at rail good at 43psi
c. removed wire to oil pressure sending unit behind cap to check for start no luck.
D. Checked all fuses under dash for open lines all checked out good
E. Checked 20 amp fuse by battery checked out good
F. ohm'd all injectors all check out good at 14.4
G. fuel pump is priming fine
H. I tried to check for spark with one of those spark testers and it seems to get spark at some and not at others it was hard to find a good ground though. so this might have not been totally accurate.
I. Checked all fuel injector wires for 12vdc at connectors but not one read 12vdc with igniton on and turning over motor.
J. I have the large cap HEI with the coil in cap and when I disconnect the tach and batt connections that hook up to the cap I get a much stronger response when it tries to turn over like it is going to start, when they are connected it turns over slowly and stops???
K. Haven't tried starter fluid yet and do you spray it directly into the throttle body??

Vader

You've done well with all you've checked so far. Everything looks good except for the lack of a 12V supply at the injectors with the ignition on. That's likely a problem.

If you want to test your hypothesis with starter fluid, you can open the throttle and spray some in directly. Use very little, since it vaporizes and burns quickly, and can backfire easily. You might be better off or safer shooting some raw fuel into the plenum with a pump oiler or some other means (syringe, turkey baster, etc.), then cranking the engine.

Since this is an '85 TPI it should also have a cold start valve (injector). If the coolant is cold enough, that should provide a little starting fuel.

Check the INJ1 and INJ2 fuses in the fuse panel. Good luck from there. You could temprarily route power to a bank of injectors just to verify the problem. Just be careful to power up the 12V side of the harness only, or you could toast the ECM.

Red Devil

Why? It's not moving, should be easy to shoot. Even Vader could hit it.

Seriously, did you check that the ground strap is installed in the coil? Did you get the ignition module tested before install? (you didn't use dielectric grease did you?) Try getting one of the spark testers that install between the wire and the plug, much more user friendly. And do like Vader said and try the ether of gas in the plenum. BTW, have you checked for codes yet?

RednGold86Z

iTrader: (1)

It also may be advanced too much, causing the kickback (cranks slowly - almost stops - with distributor connected correctly). Turn the distributor clockwise a bit, see if the cranking sputters at least. Might not be installed on the right tooth either, or timing chain has slipped.

mantiz85ws6

I checked for codes and no codes were found, the timing was set to 6* so it is not advanced too much. Ground stap is installed in the coil. The ignition module that was in there was checked by auto store and found to be good but I replaced it anyways with a new one and I used the grease that was supplied with it. When I was checking the injectors for 12v with the meter just to confirm I did this right I just placed the red and black probes on either side of the injector connector? I'll recheck the inj1 and inj2 fuses but I only remember seeing 1 inj fuse.

5ltrbtr

it might be a problem with the VATS

mantiz85ws6

i don't think this year has vats?

John 89 Formula

Get yourself a noid light about $10 at pepboys.
Unplug an injector and plug in the noid light then crank the motor, if the light don't flash check all the connectors at your coil and ignition module, if every thing looks good, replace the ignition module.

When you set your timing, did you remember to disconnect the est connector?

VATS = '89 and newer

mantiz85ws6

The ignition module is new I replaced it for the old one that was in it just to be sure even though the old one tested good and at that time i relaced the coil. Yes the est wire was disconnected to set the base timing.

Vader

Check the injector harness for power by probing the harness/connectors and reference the meter to a good engine ground. You should get 12V between the harness and ground with the ignition on.

Thanks for the "vote of confidence" R.D. I saw the opening, but I wasn't going there. If I had a few clips, I'm sure I could hit it. (I can throw those clips pretty well...)

mantiz85ws6

If it ever clears up around here i'll re-check the injector connectors for 12v. If I owned a gun I probably would shoot it!!!

Red Devil

You said it, not I.

Must... resist...

Though I may save it for future reference....

rezinn

Sounds like a lot of work so far. One thing you might want to do is check the integrity of each of the wires connecting to the ignition coil and distributor. Sounds like a distributor problem to me.

How old is the distributor? When exactly did this no start problem come up? You did get a code 12, right?

Does it start up and die with starting fluid?

mantiz85ws6

The distributor appears to be the original one and I had it tested not more than 2 months ago due to an unrelated problem with a bad injector connector that has been fixed. I haven't tried starting fluid yet it has been raining here for the past 3 days so she is under cover until it clears up, sucks working out of your driveway! Actually the no start appeared after I replaced my spark plug wires due to a couple of burned ones from my headers I don't know if it was just a coincidence but that is when this all started an easy plug wire change!! When I turn the ignition key to on the trouble light blinks once I believe that is telling me that the ecm is getting a signal and is ok.

5ltrbtr

VATS = '89 and newer[/QUOTE]

thanks did not know that I'll shut up now

305TA85

Lets recap, your leaving out a lot of info. Obvousilly it turns over but does not fire? Now does it try to fire or not? My car I had to throttle to get it going for awhile. Bad valvetrain did that for me. Have you ever had the valve pan covers off? You may be surprised by what you find. Observe thouroughly it may appear to be all together but realy may not. You can put a indicator somewhere on the spring to check your lift even. I doubt this is your problem. You only changed the wires then this happened. You did the basic wire job and no start afterwards? Is your firing order correct? You still didn't really say f you have good spark or not. Simply take a wire off use a metal rod or even a old spark plug and check that way. If the ignition module is old by even a few months it could have failed. You can not really check them. I took mine to murrays and it checked fine however I put a new one ine and the car ran. Did you check the pick-up coil? This can be checked with a vo. Haynes or Chilton has the procedure. Assuming this many problems you have invested in one. If not I would. Did you check the rotor? I had 1 break on me. And the 2 previous owners had 3 break on them between the two of them. Did you forget to put any larger vacuum lines back onto the manifold?

305TA85

If your distributor is stock and doesn't appear to be altered, than why is it on a 350? 305 was the only available engine at the time. Who did the swap? or the lying? if its only a 305 you don't have to be ashamed my beats up lt1s and all sorts of mustangs. Before the motor took a dive into hell. I think I busted a piston not that far yet. Got a 98' T/A for the time being.
Just trying to help,
Greg

mantiz85ws6

305TA85,

First off no one is lying about anything. The original motor was pulled out but all the 305 tpi parts were reused on a rebuilt 350 block minus the knock sensor and heads the distributor is the same for a 305/350. I had all the rocker arms adjusted 2 months ago when I had the valve covers replaced with new ones. The motor only has 9000 miles put on it in 3.5 years and was built by a very competant builder. If you Read my post and you will see all the recent new parts that I installed including the ignition module.

305TA85

But does it start yet? An ignition module can go out at anytime for any reason. Did the motor ever start after the wire change? When it cranks over does it at all try to start? I will look at my 85 today to go through the injector harness to look for possible places of error. But if it started just fine then didn't after a wire change I would be leary that something you did then would cause it to fail. Also I know that burnt wires sparking on the headers ruins electrical components.

mantiz85ws6

It does not start yet it just keeps turning over like it wants to start it won't start for even a second just keeps turning. The motor didn't start after the wire change so I thought I might have miss wired it but that is not the case I checked and rechecked my firing order with a diagram everything is good there. Before I did the wire change I ran it a couple days before with no problems, waited for my new wires from summit to come in got them and did the wire swap and it failed to start. Like I said if I disconnect the 2 connectors to the cap that are for battery and tach it turns over much stronger like it is getting more juice? All the ignition parts I recently replaced are new. The weather here is still raining so I have to wait to it clears up to start working on it again.

305TA85

I would check the pickup coil. I am assuming you have determined you have fuel & no spark. Are the spark plug wires connected properly? Keep us updated.

mantiz85ws6

305TA85
When you say the pick up coil I have the coil in cap and that is new? Where is the p-up coil located?

305TA85

You don't want to know. Its in the distributor itself. I will check my hanes manual tonight but with a vom you can check if its good or not through the cap itself. When you said its easier to turn over with those plugs disconnected that sparked a interest. If it is bad it is 16 dollars from murrays, but you would have to pull the distributor. Do some checking before you just pull it however.
Greg

Vader

You may be here:



The pickup coil is mounted in the base of the distributor. The reluctor that excites the pickup coil is mounted to the distributor shaft. It's really not that hard to repair/replace, but before you do, check it first. Using an ohmmeter, test teh pickup coil resistance. It should be between 500-1,500 ohms. A new coil is 850 ohms. There should also be infinite resistance between either pickup coil lead and ground. You should also inspect the reluctor for cracks or damage.

Did you get any action at all when manually administering some fuel?

mantiz85ws6

VADER,

I haven't had a chance to add fuel to the intake yet due to all the rain we have been getting, as soon as it lets up i'll check it. Also where in the picture is the pick up coil??
----------
30585TA,
How do I check the p-up coil through the cap?

mantiz85ws6

How do you check the pick up coil without taking the distributor apart??

305TA85

You don't. You have to take the cap off and check with a vom between connectors. Buy a chilton manual all of these questions will be answered. Well worth the 20 dollars. I have a haynes manual I have read it from front to back 3 times. You will be able to trouble shoot almost any problem 5 times as fast.

mantiz85ws6

Well with the nice weather back I was able to do some more testing. I checked the pick up coil for continuity for shorts between the p-up coil terminals and distributor body and none present just read open lines is that ok that they are reading open??. Also measured the resistance and got 800 which is within the limits of 500-1500. Rechecked for spark and I did get spark on all 8 some stronger than others. Checked for battery power at the BAT terminal of the distributor connector with key on and read 12v checked ok. Double checked the 12v to injector connectors all ok. Even though the coil is new I checked it with the meter and all checked out good!!! I dumped some raw fuel into the intake and still no change. At this point I don't know where to go next?? Are there any relays I can check specific to 85's

Vader

If you're getting spark, and have added fuel manually, and still have no activity, the spark may not be occurring at the proper time, or wet spark plugs may be shunting the spark energy without creating spark at the gap.

mantiz85ws6

I haven't tried to advance the timing it was set @6* by a shop before I was going to take it for inspection maybe the distributor slipped and retarded it?? Is there a special tool to reach the distributor hold down bracket it looks to be in a real tight space?

John 89 Formula

You said the problem started after you replaced your wires, have you double checked the wires to make sure nothing is crossed? I've replaced the wires on my car countless times and still manage to screw it up once in a while.

AussieGTA

Got spark, Got fuel, Changed leads, no start.

I'm going to ask a really stupid question. Standing at the front of the car, looking at the engine, which side is number 1? It wouldn't be the first time I have seen or heard of the wrong one being used. This isn't meant to insult your intelligence.

mantiz85ws6

AussieGTA,
Standing in front of the car looking at the motor the #1 cylinder would be the first one closest to the front of the car on the drivers side according to the firing order diagram I have. No insult taken there are no stupid questions.

305TA85

Okay, do you have any better clue yet on what it could be. Manualy turn the motor over and get the piston to top dead center. Take the distributor cap off and look to see where the rotor is pointed. It should be pointed towards the wire for cylinder #1. This will tell you that your distributor is in the right place.

AussieGTA

That was my very next question.....The second would be, did you adjust the lifters at ALL.

Excluding weak spark, you have everything that should make an engine fire, spark and fuel. Nothing else makes it go BANG. (That is of course not including a broken timing chain or snapped cam shaft. (but not likely))

I have always found that checking the basics on a job like this generally finds the answer.

mantiz85ws6

Update!!
Well I learned an important lesson never assume your distributor is in the right position!! Mine wasn't and when I yanked my wires off to replace them I didn't do them one for one because I thought the distributor was so instead of the rotor pointing at number one @ tdc it was off by one and was at #8. I guess that is what happens when your an ametuer!

305TA85

Good job. See these problems can be worked through.