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Gear lube and posi additive?

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Old 12-26-2013, 03:58 PM
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Gear lube and posi additive?

I noticed a slight drip at the rear end and found it to be just the cover gasket (BW 9 bolt). I've been looking for the right answer and I haven't found it yet. If I drop the cover, clean and replace the gasket and refill, I've read that I will need between 3.5 and 4.5 pints of 80w-90 gear oil. No problem there.

In 1987, the use of synthetic fluids wasn't common if at all. The old recommendation was to add the GL-5 fluid and GM limited slip additive. I have an old bottle (2001 vintage, PN 1052358) of GM Posi additive in a 4oz bottle. Does this stuff go bad? Is 4oz. enough? Do I need it if I use a Lucas Oil, Royal Purple, or similar product?

I've changed the fluid on my truck, but it has an Eaton locker and it doesn't require the additive. My old Olds 442 needed two bottles many years ago, but I don't know what gear lube the shop used prior to adding the additive. Thanks for any advice.
Old 12-26-2013, 05:28 PM
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Engine: Vortec headed 355, xe262
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Axle/Gears: 9-bolt 3.70
Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

You're not going to find a solid answer about the posi additive. GM required it initially, and at some point recommended against using posi additive in the 9-bolts.

From what I understand it's mostly to prevent chatter inside the posi unit and auburn posis needed it. 9-bolts dont seem very prone to that, but they are prone to expensive rebuilds when the cones wear out, so I wouldn't add anything to them to promote wear. I think the posi additive just allows more slipping of the cones. That's my understanding of it. Maybe biggearhead or someone else can show up and shed some more light on it. But I'm not running any in mine. Hasnt exploded yet...

I particularly like this thread... just because it demonstrates the wildly varying opinions on it. But I seem to remember at some point reading a GM TSB recommending to NOT use posi additive in these.

Edit:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...-additive.html

A little hard to decipher, but definitely seems to indicate not to use the additive.

Another relevant thread:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...olts-posi.html

For reasons I will never understand, posi additive in 9-bolts is a controversial issue on this site. I am not trying to start a battle here, I am only trying to describe my research and experiences on this topic. It may help some of you make some decisions about your 9-bolt. Replacing parts can get expensive and the method here is a poor-man’s approach, albeit probably a short-term fix. Since it is very likely that my 3rd gen will be sold within the next week and I will likely not be visiting this site as often as I have been (3 times a day), I figured I’d post this for the benefit of others. Do as you wish with this information.

According to the bottles of posi additives that I have looked at on store shelves, the additive is to be used in rear ends with clutch-type posi units. 9-bolts are cone-type units. From a sales/marketing perspective, I find it hard to believe that the producers of the additive would miss the opportunity to mention cone-types if it were really to be used.

According to my research (if you do a search on this forum, you will find the lengthy words from GM from the Camaro Owner’s manual the TSB’s on the topic), posi additive is not to be added to 9-bolt posi units. This is documented in a series of TSB’s (where GM kept changing their mind) with the final TSB stating that this should not be done.

According to the parts manager at a local Chevy dealer (and a guy who autocrosses 4th gens), the only effect that you should see from the posi additive is for the noise level to be reduced. This is not my experience.

According to my experience, adding posi additive to a 9-bolt will weaken the posi “action” of the rear end. The first time that I changed the rear end gear oil on my 9-bolt, I did not know about the posi additive “controversy”. I simply put the additive in the rear. The posi action became less and less pronounced over time (a couple of thousand miles at most and it was gone). Was my posi unit wearing out? Probably. However, I personally believe that the posi additive caused an already weak posi to get worse. Read on.

As a test, I put Red Line 75W90NS in my rear end. According to Red Line’s literature, this oil is “recommended for manual transmissions and non-limited-slip transaxles that recommend 90 WT oils. Can be used in racing limited-slip units to increase lockup and reduce wheel spin. Street-driven rear-wheel drive cars should use regular Red Line 75W90 or 80W140.” Well, my car is street driven and autocrossed. So, I called Red Line about this before putting it in my rear. What they said was that the lack of friction modifiers (e.g. the contents of posi additive) would cause the posi action to be more pronounced, but would accelerate wear on the cones. I decided since my posi was already weak and I have a spare 9-bolt in the garage, I had nothing to lose and I’d learn something. I put this oil in my rear. …and I did learn something.

Just as I was hoping, my posi “came back”. In fact, the posi action was so strong that when going around turns at slow speeds, the outer wheel had a tendency to skip. It took a while for the posi action to come back (a couple of 100 miles), but it did come back. I figured, “hey, liquid locker”. I was pleased, to be honest, though the rear end got a bit noisier.

Now that I am selling the car, I know that the slow-speed skipping would be undesirable to a potential buyer, I added the posi additive the night before last. On slow speed turns, the outer wheel no longer skips and the rear is quieter than before I put the additive in there.

The only real unknown in all of this is whether or not my posi was already worn or not. As it turns out, it doesn’t really matter. I can say with confidence that the posi action is weak with the additive and strong (probably too strong) without the additive. The change in behavior is somewhat progressive when eliminating the additive, but the behavior does change.

One man’s experience. “Your results may vary.”

Last edited by InfernalVortex; 12-26-2013 at 05:41 PM.
Old 12-26-2013, 05:57 PM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

The Borg Warner rear end has the same differential that was used in the '04 to '06 GTO. Those guys have a lot of problems with oil. Many oils will not work in those cars. The one that they found to work the best is Torco RGO. I also had problems with one of those rear ends and the Torco RGO oil took care of the problem.

Last edited by big gear head; 12-26-2013 at 06:04 PM.
Old 12-26-2013, 07:14 PM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

9-bolts use 75w-90 or thereabouts, right? That's interesting on that oil... I may look into it.
Old 12-26-2013, 08:50 PM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

This is the first I've heard about 9 bolts not liking the GM limited slip additive. I had my fluid swapped out back in 2008 and had the GM additive put in at the same time. Daily driver since then with no issues.

I would say put it in.
Old 12-31-2013, 09:03 AM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

I have a problem with my 9bolt.I got this diff from a salvage car and installed it.I used the non slip fluid.I put about 5000miles on the car and started having fluid leaking out the vent cap.Has this happened to anyone else?The leak is realy bad.I switched to fluid for limited slip diffs.The leak stopped for about 2 weeks,but now is worse than ever.I was told to add LUCAS fluid to it ,it was about 1 inch below bottom of quick-fill hole.Leak has continued.Do I need to rebuild this diff.It has the 3.27 gearsI.I have read all the post.My diff came from a GTA and it has disk brakes,so I am thouroughly confussed.ANY ADDVICE???

Last edited by 230 firebird; 12-31-2013 at 09:19 AM.
Old 12-31-2013, 09:35 AM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

Originally Posted by 230 firebird
I have a problem with my 9bolt.I got this diff from a salvage car and installed it.I used the non slip fluid.I put about 5000miles on the car and started having fluid leaking out the vent cap.Has this happened to anyone else?The leak is realy bad.I switched to fluid for limited slip diffs.The leak stopped for about 2 weeks,but now is worse than ever.I was told to add LUCAS fluid to it ,it was about 1 inch below bottom of quick-fill hole.Leak has continued.Do I need to rebuild this diff.It has the 3.27 gearsI.I have read all the post.My diff came from a GTA and it has disk brakes,so I am thouroughly confussed.ANY ADDVICE???
The type of oil is not going to make any difference in your case. I can't imagine what could cause a problem like that other than it having too much oil in it. How much oil did you put in it? Was the rear end sitting level when you filled it? The oil should be just below the bottom of the hole in the cover. This rear end will have a metal screw in vent. This is the very same vent that is used in the FOX Mustang rear ends.
Old 12-31-2013, 10:46 AM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

Originally Posted by big gear head
The type of oil is not going to make any difference in your case. I can't imagine what could cause a problem like that other than it having too much oil in it. How much oil did you put in it? Was the rear end sitting level when you filled it? The oil should be just below the bottom of the hole in the cover. This rear end will have a metal screw in vent. This is the very same vent that is used in the FOX Mustang rear ends.
The car was level.i filled it untill the fluid started t come out of the hole.As you know,the fill hole is in the axle cover.There is a metal,screw in type vent.i have been told that a bearing must be going out and creating to much heat/pressure.Thanks for your reply.Right now,the fluid level is about 1/2 inch below the fill hole.Should I cotinue to drive it and keep a check on fluid level.I had someone else tell me that these diffs like to run 1-11/2" under low on fluid?
Old 12-31-2013, 04:03 PM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

I haven't had that problem before. I don't understand why it's coming out the vent, but if it stops coming out when the oil gets a little low then it should be fine.
Old 12-31-2013, 04:33 PM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

Originally Posted by big gear head
I haven't had that problem before. I don't understand why it's coming out the vent, but if it stops coming out when the oil gets a little low then it should be fine.
I always have the weirdest things go wrong with my cars.A friend of mine suggested i rig it up like a pickup with a long hose and a regular vent,that I got off an s-10.I am going to just keep driving it for now,and keep a check on the fluid.I guess I will rebuild it if it keeps pushing the fluid out because I don't want to go back to a regular diff.Thanks for all the replies.
Old 12-31-2013, 05:32 PM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

Back to the original topic....

I just finished replacing the gasket and fluids. I did use the 4oz of the GM additive and also used 1.5 quarts of 80w-90 GL-5 gear lube. I was thinking it should take more, but it started to flow out the hole at 1.5 qts. The car was sitting at a slight angle to promote fluid drainage, so now that the car is level, the fluid should be just below the fill line. I drove around a bunch of 90* turns and after about six miles, I lit 'em up! The cooler air really allows the car to feel strong! I'll take it out again tomorrow during the day and do a burn out and see if the posi is working properly.
Old 12-31-2013, 06:29 PM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

i have a zexel-torsen posi i may attempt to install tomorrow.do i need just synthetic oil or an additive too?
Old 12-31-2013, 08:13 PM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

No additive with the Torsen.
Old 01-12-2014, 06:25 PM
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Re: Gear lube and posi additive?

I replaced my fluid and gasket last week. Whatever was in there was pretty thick. I have never replaced the fluid, but it has been replaced before I took ownership because the only gasket was a black RTV or silicone based gasket. I only put in a fel-pro gasket. I also got about 3/4 of the posi fluid in.

Is it possible that gear oil will make a car feel sluggish? After the fluid change, the car feels so alive! The temps did drop some, so the air is cooler and drier and I'm sure that helps most. But is it possible?
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