IROC-Z2814

well for awhile now, I've been having problems with my 1988 Camaro. I gave up for a few months because of other projects but now I miss driving it so much that I want to fix it now. So the other day I fired it up after its been sitting for about 6 months and blue smoke poured out of the exhaust. This is normally comon with it because the valve seals are shot. ANyways, so my buddy is like, "Dude, you're runnin REALLY rich" So I got out the DVOM and checked my injectors and they all checked out. I replaced the fuel filter also but no change. He told me it could be my FPR......could this be my problem? If it is, where is it located? I believe its on the fuel rail but I don't want to tear it down until I know where it is. Thanks for the help
Russ

Trickster

Here is a picture of the fuel rail, it is number 240. Or better yet, it is the dome looking item with the tube coming out the back.

Blue1989RS

You know, I think that there is something wrong with the gas these days. My car "has" been running fine until now. But evein then, it always smells rich. Do you have a Catalytic?

IROC-Z2814

ok so yesterday, I pulled off my plenum and got to my FPR. There's a little vacuum hose that comes off of it and from what I've been told, if you smell fuel in that hose, then your FPR is shot. Well there's a slight smell of fuel in it but I am still thinking it is my problem. I know for a fact that its not my injectors now because ALL of my plugs are fouled. I think my FPR is the only thing that could do this besides a ECM. I found a rebuild kit for it for 29.99 so I think on Tuesday, I'm gonna go get that and see if it fixes it. Oh and yes I do have a cat on my car......everything from the cat back is umm...well missing

kretos

ok 3 questions here


did you have to pump the gas to get it to start?

when you did does it sputter ?

and does it idle higher then normal?


cus i have those 3 problems with my car, and its only been going on for about 2 weeks now, iw as also told it could be a fpr

sixbanger

still haven't fixed your problem kretos? Mine is in worse shape now. Takes about 10 -15 seconds of constant cranking before it sputters to life.

kretos

sadly no, my car runs great once i start it. and it does always sztart i just have to pump the gas once to get it fired up and then it puffs out some unburnt gas


edit

it also idles at 1500 rpm now instead of the 750

CaptPicardsZ28

Since when does blue smoke mean you are running way too rich? Maybe I'm missing something here. Thats not unusual for me though. Doing a search on your fpr here on the boards will show you some symptoms of a bad fpr.

FbodTrek

even after the 3.4 conversion with new injectors and regulator. Car took a while to start. So....I changed the fuel pump (PITA by the way, but I can do it in an 1.5 hr now). Thing runs good now (minus needing a timing adjustment). My fuel pump showed a few signs of going bad (mainly just fast bleed off). Fuel pressure was good until you put a high load on it. I say, replace the pump, 70.00 insurance and better performance.

IROC-Z2814

yeah it takes a couple pumps of the pedle to get it to sputter to life, which BTW it barely does. but when it tries to idle, it has this really realy really bad lope to it like it has a monstrous cam in it but it doesn't. If it was my fuel pump, why would I be running rich?

Oh and the blue smoke is from the vlave seals which are shot its not from my problem I'm having.

So, the majority say its probably my FPR. So should I replace it anyways to see if it fixes the problem?
Thanks for the help
Russ

Blue1989RS

Since when does pumping a fuel injected car do something? You guys are funny, or you have carborators. The only thing you can do is hold it at WOT when you crank it. That puts the ECM in a "flooded" injector mode and can help you start it. Works on my car sometimes. Give it a whirl and tell me what it does.

IROC-Z2814

thats what I have to do to get it to start. I have to pump it a couple times and then hold it to the floor. If I don't pump it for some reason it won't start. I dunno, I'm gonna fix the FPR and see if it does anything. I don't think its my fuel pump cause if it was goin out, the pressure shouldn't be so much that it fouls my plugs. My only guess is the FPR could be bad. So I guess its time to hit the parts stores and see if it does anything. Wish me luck

WaynesRS

One of the symptoms is two or three of your plugs could have alot of gas on them while your other plugs are normal .

fpr doesn't go bad that often in a car .

It could even be your igniton control module , BUT , thats usually hot start problems there .


if you do decide to change the fpr , make sure you have the correct torx bits to take it off . I took my damn manifold off and then was like ...damn ....

IROC-Z2814

well if ALL of my plugs are fouled, then what else could it be? I know about the tamper proof torx bits.....you can get the right bits at any tool store or at a hardware store.

As for the ignition module, I replaced it with a brand new one from the dealer. I also put new plugs in, wires, cap and rotor along with a coil out of my '88 IROC-Z. I had it hooked up to a scan tool at my college and everything was reading ok. Every sensor was reading normal.

BUT I do have something to add. About 2 hours before whatever happened, I readjusted the timing to 10 degrees BTDC (stock is 8 I think). So I drove the car about 20 miles to go pay a speeding ticket and as I was coming home from the courthouse (about 3 miles from it) I had to get onto a highway meaning I had to get up to speed. So as I was gettin up to 55 on the onramp, it happened. It felt like I had a terrible miss or something so I pulled over right away to see what it was. I couldn't figure out what it was so I limped it home. It started to get worse the more I drove it. Since I am an automotive student, I took it into class and had my instructors look at it. They hooked the scan tool up to it and they couldn't figure out what it was.

What could I have done when I did the timing? I reconnected the wire on the firewayy when I was done like you're supposed to do. I am still at a loss but I don't want to go spend another 200 bucks on parts to not fix it. This car is really trying my patience right now.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The distributor could have moved, rotated on it's own. Check the timing again and double check the hold down bolt, that it is tight.

To check the FPR pull the vacuum line off of it and enable the fuel pump. Check for fuel exiting from the FPR vaccuum port. If so, bad regulator.

RBob.

IROC-Z2814

ok but when I put my new ignition module in, I reset the timing so its not the problem. I made sure the hold down bolt was tight the first time I did the timing and when whatever happened, happened, I rechecked the timing to see if it was the problem. So in that case, I've checked my timing like 3 times now.

When I pulled my plenum off to get to the FPR, I also pulled off my vacuum line to smell if it had fuel in it. It had a slight fuel smell to it but I'm wasn't sure so as my buddy watched it with the vacuum line off, I put it into "ON" mode and no fuel came out.

AAAHHHHHHH WTF is goin on with my car?!?!?!?!

Blue1989RS

Question: Is this a V6 or an 8?

IROC-Z2814

this is my v6 Camaro. 1988 Camaro 2.8 liter, BW 5-speed, 3.42 LSD, yadda yadda yadda............

I'm about ready to turn this boat anchor of a 2.8 into a screamin 500HP 2.8 if I can't fix it soon. I just wanna drive it again, I miss it soooooooo much

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The pickup coil in the distributor could be bad. They are cheap and fail often once they get up there in the years.

RBob.

IROC-Z2814

I already replaced it. I was told by one of my automotive instructors that the ones you buy from NAPA and the other part stores are crap. So I went and bought one from the dealership. Its brand spankin new.........so...any other ideas guys? I think I'm gonna pull the FPR apart on Thursday or maybe tomorrow if I have time

Blue1989RS

man, I'm right there with you on the car thing. Mine is still running like crap. Seems like the timing is retarding with throttle positon until its 10-20* after.

You have checked the 02 correct? See if it says that the car is running rich. If it says lean ( >.3V) then get a new one.

IROC-Z2814

I replaced it with a genuine GM O2 sensor. I paid a lot of money for it because I didn't really want to get a generic one. so here's the parts I've already replaced:
coil (has v8 IROC-Z coil now)
spark plugs
wires
cap
rotor
O2 sensor
ignition module
MAF sensor

I eve hooked a scan tool up to it and all the sensors were reading fine. My auto instructors are still stumped on it and one eve had like 3 gen 3 Camaros when he was younger. I'm still at a loss on this

Blue1989RS

The next thing that I'm gonna try is to replace the injectors. That is the only thing left that is single ended in control. How is your fuel pressure? Does it hold pressure? You might have bad injectors. How many miles on it?

IROC-Z2814

well I haven't been able to test my fuel pressure, no one around here has a fuel pressure gauge that I can borrow. But I was thinking the injectors myself but if one injector is bad, how come ALL the sparkplugs are fouled?? This is the reason leading me to believe that the FPR is bad and not the injectors. If the injectors are bad, they wouldn't all go at once and thats what happened.

Oh and my car has 147k with some change on it.

Blue1989RS

About the same as me. 160k. Here's my philosophy. I just swapped everything from my 89 to my 86, for a duration of 4 months. I think that the fuel lines or gas tank has corroded. If the fuel lines have junk in them, they will go straight to the injectors because it is past the filter. Plus the injectors are supposed to be lubed by the gasoline. So if the injectors have been sitting, and the gas backed down to the tank, then when you fire it up for the first time, the injectors can stick open and then fill up with junk. Last night I stuffed 3.4L injectors in my 2.8. It TOTALLY changed the problem. You may want to have them checked if you're not sure.

IROC-Z2814

if I brought the car to my college and put it on the injector cleaner machine, do you think that would work? I don't really wanna tear it down and put different injectors in it right now because my other car (86 Subaru GL-10 4WD turbosedan) just took a dump on me with a cracked head so I really need to get it running now. I am gonna pull apart the FPR to see if anything is broken. If it is, then its a rebuild kit of it for 29.99 from AutoZone. If thats not the problem, I'll pull off the outlet hose on the fuel filter and disconnect the line from the fuel rail and see about blowing it out of something. If nothing fixes it, THEN I'll put new injectors in it and hopefully it'll work. Lets hope it does:hail:

Blue1989RS

Rock on man. Sounds like a plan to me! Can you do spray pattern and hold down checks? Also see if you can do a check on your fuel pressure, just for fun. However, if you are running rich, I doubt that its the problem.

IROC-Z2814

well I got a fuel pressure gauge so when I get home, I'll check it and hopefully its my FPR so I can drive it by tonight. Lets hope, lets hope that its the problem because I'm going through MAJOR withdrawls. Since I can't drive my '88 IROC and now that I can't drive my lil' red beast, its hard on a guy like me, especially when the Camaro is your very first car

IROC-Z2814

well dang nabbit. I put the fuel pressure gauge on the schrader valve and it reads.........normal So the next thing I did was pull out my ECM to see if it had any sort of crater looking places where someting might have blown up. Still.....nothing. I guess tomorrow I'm gonna pull the injectors out and see if any of them are bad, check the resistance in them AGAIN and pull them apart and clean them.

So if I have to pull them apart and clean them, how do you disassemble them? Does anyone have a diagram? What more could it be??????

Oh and BTW, it won't even fire because ALL of the plugs are fouled again.....oh boy this is pissing me off BIG time

IROC-Z2814

so I talked to a friend and he said he had the same problem in his Mistubishi Eclipse turbo. He said it wanted to run but it didn't. he put a new ECM in it and it fired right up and he hasn't had a problem with it since. So I'm gonna see about replacing my ECM with another one and hopefully thats the problem with it

Blue1989RS

Man that would suck. How rich is it running? Blue smoke constantly? Mine just smells like its running rich. I've checked all the injectors for spray pattern, resistance, and leak down. No problems and it still runs way rich. And right now, it still runs bad. Right there with ya man.

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't blue smoke mean burning oil not that you're running rich? Check your piston rings if it's blue smoke coming out your exhaust.

IROC-Z2814

ok for the record, it only has blue smoke when I first start it up after its been sittin for a couple days. bad valve seals but nothing too bad. It is running VERY rich. When I talked to my insturctor today, he said when we had the scan tool hooked up to it, it would start runnin bad the ECM would go into a closed loop, like it sensed something and it would go into a closed loop........

So does this mean I need a new ECM? I can probably get one for cheap/free if need be and I can check it. Oh boy I hope thats it, I need to drive this car because all my other cars are too much to fix and I need to get to work almost everyday *sigh*

Jay Hollywood

what did you do