chvy

Hi everyone, I'm mike. I'm looking into buying a 2.8/700r4 camaro, it was my neighbors who taught me everything I know about cars. He passed away recently and has a bunch of cars and motorcycles, he not long ago painted the camaro a harley theme (orange/red/black) and it looks real nice. Problem is I know nothing about these cars, I know Gbodies fairly well but have never looked at a camaro. He fixed the front and rear brakes, tuned up the engine just to get it driving, and painted it is all he had done so far.

My idea is to finish the car as my neighbor wanted it (new seats/headliner/black tweed interior/tires), then do a few modifications of my own. The car would be ONLY for a gas mileage/cruiser/everyday vehicle. I already have too much muscle in the driveway for me as it is. I don't know what year it is, 83/84?? It has three parallel slits in the front bumper I think this was only on specific year models.


Heres my questions - what kind of real life mileage would I expect from this car knowing its 25+years old? Is the 2.8 a reliable engine? (if I do buy it I would rebuild or buy a new 2bbl) I've found it most likely has 3.08's out back, what do these cars tach going about 60-75mph?

My two additions to the car, after tuning up and getting everything in driving condition and how he would want the car are: A gear vendors overdrive unit to get a few more mpg's out of it, and a lowering kit (or maybe bags) and some nice chrome 18-20" wheels. I think the car is around 1000$

jensen73110

iTrader: (4)

Can't go wrong with a thousand dollar Camaro with nice paint.

Sounds like the '82 to '84 nose, but that could have been swapped. Some of the factory plates/stickers should have the year on it. Of course, VIN will tell you too.

The v6 is generally reliable (175k on mine, no issues), but it depends on how the previous owners treated it.

Autos will get a lil worse mpg than the t5 people, but you should get 25-ish highway. Keep your foot out of it and you should get near 30. Keep in mind 18+ inch wheels will lower the mileage, and make it slower and increase stopping distances. I wouldn't do 20s, as the tire would be a rubber band. The ride would be rough and rim damage would be really easy.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

If it's a pre-85, it's got the crappy crank and mains, which are of smaller diameter than the 85 HO and up, the crappy heads, which the valves are smaller than the 85 HO and up, and the anemic E2SE carb. The good news is that there ARE performance intakes available for the carbs, you just need to look for S10 performance parts, and post-85 heads.

About the only 2 good things that car has going for it is the body is nicely done and the transmission (although the early, non-updated version) has overdrive, which, in theory, with the torque converter locked, will get better mileage than a T5 (.70:1 OD versus .78:1 for an 84 and .76: for an 85, which does make a difference). It just needs for the engine to warm up first. :edit: You won't want a secondary overdrive unit on the 700R4... The 2.8 won't be able to handle it and it'll be a real dog.

10th digit of the VIN will either be D (83), E, F, or G (if they skipped E in 84).

chvy

Thanks for the info guys, I found out some more about the camaro... my neighbor's son will sell it to me for 500$. My neighbor was looking for 1000$ but his son wants to let me have it for 500$ which is nice. I don't want any performance parts at all on the car and won't ever get on the throttle hard with this car. I learned this lesson well with an old v6 regal. It is what it is, a 2.8 camaro. Most of my driving is highway, about 60-70% (commute to school and work). 25-30mpg sounds real good

Heres the story - It was sitting in some lady's garage for 10+years, it was her boyfriends car who broke up with her and he never came back to pick up his car and died some years after that. My neighbor bought it in that condition about a year ago painted it and fixed the brakes. I'm kinda weary about the condition of the car, I think the guy who owned it was young and stupid when he drove it. It has late 80's/early 90's cragars that are in fair condition and an exhaust tip with lights which my neighbor threw out... this was really old, Ive never seen them in my life. I also have to wonder what kinda guy puts cragars and a light up exhaust tip on an old v6 camaro.

My thoughts are it needs tires, new carb or rebuild, fuel pump, fuel filter, water pump, new battery, change all fluids, new distributor, spark plugs/wires, this should run me about 1000$ for everything to get the car running nicely. First thing before anything else would be tires to drive the car around and see if the tranny/tc works properly. Anything I'm forgetting here or could help with getting this car in good running condition?

Im also having second thoughts about the gear vendors unit, no sense in bolting on anything thats worth more than twice what I'll have in the car. The paint is fairly new, but he sprayed it in his garage with acrylic enamel, the body isn't 100% straight either, one of the doors needs a bit of shimming or adjusting, but most of it looks good. I'd say the body is an easy 80%, not too hard on the eyes

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Full tune up before you do anything else. Change all the spark plugs, the ignition wires, coil, cap and rotor, EVERY fluid in the car from front to back (coolant, engine oil, power steering if equipped, transmission fluid, rear end gear oil, fresh gas), EVERY filter (air, PCV filter, oil filter, trans oil filter), the PCV valve, and probably a new set of v-belts as well, depending on how long they've sat in one position. You may or may not want to look into a new water pump as well because you don't know the condition of the bearings, and possibly a timing chain based on the mileage (if the car has about 100K on it and you don't know if it's been replaced, do it).

GTA50

This has been standard for me with every car I have bought. My first GTA would stall and die when hot. I did the above and have never had problem.

chvy

Thanks for the tips guys, I think I can do this all for 1000$, I'm working on getting the title/insurance for the car in the next week or two. Should be 500$ for the car and maybe 200$ for insurance.

I'm thinking along with the 1000$ to get it running and driving good, and if the transmission works fine, 500$ to redo the interior, 100$ for tint, 500$ to have my rear end guy bolt in 2.73's... think it has 3.23 now. I'll get the vin to see if it has 3.08 or 3.23... anyone know which one it'd have? I have an old 7.5 with brackets to a gbody with something insane like 2.13 rear gears but thats way to high for this car... the 2.13's were on a 3spd v8 cutlass.

How much are lowering springs? Thats the last thing I'd like to do, of course shocks to go with them. I'm thinking another 300$ for this.


So I'll probably have 2200$ in the whole car, including everything. I think it will make a nice daily driver when its done. I'm giving my current DD, 1990 civic, to my brother who just started driving.... thats a scary thought...


How much is it to upgrade or fix all the A/C components on the car? I haven't looked at the car too much yet, lets say I need a compressor, evaporator, dryer, and lines/tubes, how much will that run me? Or how much for a mechanic to rob me blind? That'd be so cool if I can get the AC to work, then it'd be a perfect inexpensive DD

Project 3.4 Camaro

Do a standard tuneup as Maverick suggested, run seafoam through it because these things love to run rich and spew carbon deposits all over everything...It's an 83-87. To find out if its post '85 just look under the hood, if its carbeurated its pre '85 if it's fuel injected it's post '85 or better yet take a picture and we can tell you.

chvy

I haven't looked at it yet, still waiting to get keys for the thing and a title, but I'll be able to tell real quick if it's carbureted or not... I'm going to post some pics in about a week or so to show yall and you could probably tell me things you see about the car that jump out at you knowing these cars, but maybe not be noticed by myself. I've built a few engines and have 4 cars in the drive at this point, one of them needs to go, sorry honda

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

You won't be able to get what you want done for the prices you list. At most shops, the rear hatch glass alone is close to $100 for tint. Just the upholstery alone is $350 through aftermarket sources, which doesn't include installation, and the carpet is almost the same price. And none of this includes door panel work if needed, headliner, visors, and sail panels, console lid, dash pad, shift boot, or any other commonly bad/torn/faded parts.

You DO NOT want 2.73 rear gears. The 2.8 will never get you anywhere quick with them, even though the mileage should be okay. The lowest gear used in the V6 was a 3.23 in the carbed and 90-92 models with the 700R4. It should have the 3.23 in it unless the rear has been swapped. Personally, I would go with the 3.42 I currently have, as it offers both decent mileage and decent get up and go, even without performance parts, and will be less wear on the engine and trans as a result.

If you're looking to restore the interior, I'd suggest downloading a copy of either the YearOne or Classic Industries catalogs.

chvy

Thanks man, my budget on the interior is about 500$ it has all panels except one door panel which I can buy from a junkyard/ebay/craigslist for nothing. I'll do most of the upholstery for the panels myself, and healdiner, and have the tint done at a friends shop, and the seats I'll take to the local upholstery shop I've been going to for a while now

I don't know how to write this or make it any more clear, I want the car SLOW and have terrible acceleration. I want it to be a dog. I will not and dont want to be stepping on it, I want this thing to net 30mpg's on the highway.... thats what the car is for, I have an 1/8 mile cutlass in the drive and a supercharged truck and am about to get rid of a car that gets 30-34mpg regularly. The car is going to be cheap as hell, or at least as cheap as I can make it, and also as slow as I can get it for the best gas mileage. The trade off is I give my little brother a nice car driving car ('90 civic) for his b-day, and I have a car thats just as slow and almost as good of gas mileage but doesn't look like a$$. Thats how its going to be done, and it's all going to be done for less than 2500$ including price of the car. The A/C is another story, if it looks salveagable I'll work on it, but it isn't really concern of mine. I'll drive it around for a while and see how the stock rear gears do, If I'm not seeing 30mpg with them then it's time for highway gears

Project 3.4 Camaro

I tend to agree with Maverick on the gears, I wouldn't go lower than 3.00, quickness aside, asking a 135 hp 160 ft lb tq v6 to pull a ~3000 lb car from a dead start with 2.73 gears is probably going to actually hamper city mileage, though I suppose if you drive a lot more highway than city it might still show an overall mileage improvement, but I honestly wouldn't change the gears if I were you.
And just curious but why are you buying a 3rd gen Camaro if you want mileage, if you love the body style enough I could understand it, but if you're really that adamant about mileage why not buy something like a civic?

58mark

iTrader: (3)

sounds like you are talking my language... see the last part of my sig

the best thing you can do for a crappy interior is throw in a set of 4th gen seats... you can find those for $100 for a full set in good condition

as for the rest of the interior, craigslist, and the guys here can be a great way to find what you need. Have you posted pics of what you have so people can help you find better stuff?

check out some of the things I've done to my car... maybe you'll get some ideas. none of it was expensive, I can't afford expensive

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/memb...ghlight=family

chvy

Thats a good question, I promised my brother (10 years younger than me) that when he gets his permit I would give him my 1990 civic, I've been looking for a car for a few weeks/months and haven't found anything that gets decent mileage unless it's a corolla or something stupid. I really don't care a whole lot about extreme mileage, as long as it's averaging 25 I'll be fine. But then my neighbor who was a close friend of mine passed away and his son was getting rid of cars, he had a 50's chevy truck, and a 90's jag xj with a 350 swap, another 90's xj show car with the 12 cyl I think?? a newer SUV, at least 6 motorcycles, etc. I like the old camaros, I would rather get 30 hwy mpg and drive a decent old camaro than 34hwy mpg and drive a newer corolla or civic in very good condition.

Like I said most of my miles are on the highway, my guess is 60-70% but could be more than that. I usually drive my truck around town, so that leaves my DD for the hwy miles. Rear gears are the only thing I haven't messed with on cars, but I might try and swap it out myself to save some cash, that would save another 100$. I used an rpm calculator and it would drop rpms about 300 on the freeway, should net a few more...2-4... mpg's and if the gears and rebuilt kit cost me 400$ I could make up for that cost after a couple years of driving. Also, the 2.73 thing really doesn't make a difference. Guys I drove an olds 307 cutlass, 3600lbs, turbo200 3spd, with 2.13 gears for years. And I've driven a 1990 honda civic 1.5L now for 5 years of so. The camaro would likely be just as 'fast' as those cars with 2.7x. I've always secretly wanted an old 3rd gen camaro/firebird, or a c4 corvette... these are really the first new cars I can remember from when I was a kid

chvy

haha thanks man, someone else gets it! If I'd put my purchase in any category it'd be: the most classic best looking absolute cheapest best gas mileage car available that you would want to be seen in category. It's a very small segment

I don't have pics yet, my neighbors son has been over at the house going through e-v-e-r-ything. There's so much stuff, catalogs and magazines from the 50's, about 3 garages full of tools that he somehow fit in his house, and his living room was a motorcycle showroom. It's going to take a while to go through everything, plus he has to deal with arrangements and getting the estate in order, he's pretty busy. I'm not even going to trouble him with it for a week or so, I'm positive he is going to sell it to me, but I don't want to throw the title transfer thing on him and make him go down to the courthouse after everything he's going through right now

58mark

iTrader: (3)

let's put our cars in the category of "stylish cruiser" and ignore the fact that almost every car out on the road could beat it to a 1/4 mile. It's a fact, but I dont care. It gets me up to highway speeds by the end of the on-ramp, and I like how I feel driving it. I like walking through a parking lot filled with kias, minivans, and pickups, seeing my car, and thinking... yeah... THAT'S the one I want to drive home

by the way, I get about 24-25 average MPG... I havn't done a tank of just highway miles yet, so I would expect it to go up a little, but 30MPG is quite a feat to reach.

I also have a 5 speed, that helps too

chvy

I know what you mean, this car is an upgrade from my honda, but still an inexpensive cool daily driver/cruiser. 25avg mpg would be fine with me, keep in mind it's mostly highway miles. I did a mileage test in my civic that's 'suppossed' to get 28-32mpg which is what I usually avg with it. I drove it reeeal slow in town and went 55-60 mph on the freeway, following trucks and things and checked the mileage/amount of gas added after a full tank, it got 36mpg that tank. I'll do the same with the camaro, if I don't see 29/30mpg after doing that, then it's time for 2.7x gears. I won't be too happy if I get 22-24 avg mpg but can live with it. 25-27mpg is more my 'goal' if you could call it that, I'll likely need highway gears, it'll just be whatever it ends up at though

58mark

iTrader: (3)

wow, i've had a 91 civic (5 speed)

if you could get 55 MPG out of one of those, then you are a master and should have no problem milking the camaro up to 30 or beyond

you even been involved on one of those groups that hold MPG contests? you sound like you would be very good at it?

chvy

I got 36 out of the little honda. It's a four door 1.5 4spd auto, I just painted it about a year ago and it's in real good condition except for not having A/C.

I've heard of crx's and hatchback hondas getting upper 40's-50mpg. It'd be possible to get 55mpg, just real hard as you said. I was actually looking for a crx FE manual that gets about 35-45mpg in normal driving, but the cheapest one I found was a late 80's for 4K$!! No thanks! I'll take the

I've heard of the MPG contests, in fact my neighbor told me a story of when he and some friends entered one back in the 60's. They took a volkswagen bug, gutted it, put tiny spares all around, loosened up the wheel bearings, and a number of other things I can't remember what it was, they got somewhere around 50mpg. He said everyone else got in the 30's... that would've been fun to see

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

If your goal is that low, you could probably just leave the rear alone. Most any V6 will get 25-27 highway (there's a thread about this about once a month or so where some of us get together and compare mileage), whether it has 3.42, 3.23, or some other rear gear. Even running cruddy (VERY rich), my 3.1 with the 700R4 and 3.42 rear got me 27 MPG highway. Running better and with a lower overdrive gear (.76 versus .70 for the 700R4), and the same rear, I managed 30+.

Oh, and 58mark, the car has the carb on it... It's got 25 less horses than our MFI cars and around 15 ft lbs less torque.

:edit: And the A/C is probably not something you want to fix if you're going cheap. If it doesn't work and hasn't in a while, there's no telling what all needs to be replaced (lines, seals, the condenser or evaporator, the orifice tube, the accumulator which will need to be replaced regardless, and possibly the compressor depending on how long the system has been empty if it is, relays, etc).

chvy

Hopefully it'll get high 20's avg mpg. Like I said, if I don't see 30mpg after super granny-styling on a tank of gas, then I'll swap the rear gear out.

Ya I've been thinking about the A/C thing too. It's probably not going to happen. I mean I do have the money, but I'm just cheap... if I don't have to do it to get it where it needs to be, then it doesn't really need to be done. But then the problem is this - if I get to liking this car a lot after it's a daily driver and fixing it up and all, then I might want to take the girlfriend out in it. I usually only take her in my truck (perfectly cold a/c) and thats the ONLY time I use a/c. This really sucks for trips to galveston or san anton, etc where I'm spending my lifes savings on high test gas that gets 17mpg at best. I actually forget to turn on the a/c sometimes when I'm driving a friend or family members car... and they're like... aren't you gunna turn on the a/c it's like 105 deg outside... (I live in houston)

chvy

What insurance companies do yall have? How much are yall paying for third gen v6 camaros insurance at minimum coverage?

I called safeco (current provider) state farm, nationwide, geico, progressive and a few other ones and checked esurance and a few other online places.

Progressive quoted me 250$ for just the camaro on one minimum policy (6 months). Everywhere else quoted me 450-550$, I think it was nationwide quoted me 750$ I told them they were insane and hung up the phone that time.

250$ sounds good enough to me, but are there any companies that have an option as to what engine/trim level it is? Everywhere asks me if its a camaro sport or a berlinetta. I tell them it's a sport, with a 2.8 v6 and then they're like - oh it doesn't matter what engine it has... shouldnt the fast car have more expensive insurance than the slow one?

Project 3.4 Camaro

My Camaro is like $10 a month cheaper to insure than my buick century.......

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

When I called my insurance company last year to put my insurance on another car we had, I got a BIG surprise. The car was a 93 Plymouth granny-mobile with a 4-banger and an air bag. The car was 6 years newer than mine, with 160K less miles, and 2 less cylinders, a slow POS that should have been decent on gas. I called esurance for a quote, and was told that the Plymouth was going to be about $17 a month MORE than my 6-cylinder SPORTS COUPE. If you can figure that one out, you're a genius, because I can't .

The Bird currently costs me $70 a month, and should go down once I decide to call them and let them know I've had my 25h birthday (if they don't already know)... But, then, I'm probably going to try to get at least glass coverage.

chvy

ya those sound about right. I pay just around 200$ for 6 months for each of my other cars. 250$/6months for the camaro isn't too bad, I just thought it would be cheaper being so old.

I'm not using my current provider, going to get a separate policy, for some reason safeco wants waaay too much for the camaro to be insured, even though they're the lowest insurance for my other cars. Progressive seems to be the best price

Project 3.4 Camaro

I seem to remember them being the best price for a 3rd gen as well, especially for coverage on your own car.

chvy

Ya it was weird, not sure why all the other companies were quoting me almost twice as much. I checked with about 10 places. It has to be because the sport coupe could be had in the v8? Which a lot of people drive fast= more accidents, but who knows why progressive is the lowest, especially by 200$+