zombienerd

My "new" 82 (4200 miles as of today) is having some intermittent performance issues, and I just wanted to get some opinions before I start replacing everything.

The car idles horribly right after it starts (40-45 degrees in the mornings), but if you give it a little pedal and hold it at 2k RPM for about 10 seconds, it'll run fine on it's own after I let off, but if I don't give it that pedal for a few seconds, it will stall out immediately every time.

After the car warms up (10-15 minutes of driving), if I floor it at any time, it will accelerate just fine, but the next time I go to accelerate, it will bog down horribly, and sometimes stall. If I feather the pedal, I can usually get it to keep going, but I can't give it more than a touch of the pedal or it will bog and stall. After the engine returns to ambient temperatures, it will perform just fine for another 10-15 minutes, then back to bogging under acceleration.

I haven't had the carb apart yet, but I'm pretty sure it needs a rebuild, and that's the top thing on my list. I'm also planning on replacing the fuel filters, as well as the plugs/wires/cap/rotor. Do the Varajet's have an accelerator pump? I don't see one listed in the rebuild kits online.

I'm just wondering if there's anything else I should add to the list to replace when I get to it.

zombienerd

The car is bone-stock, the plugs, wires, cap, and rotor are factory, but I have no arcing, and the plugs still look good (no fouling), I figured I'd replace them just for good measure as they are 30 years old.

I replaced the fan belts already as they were looking a bit aged, as well as the tires (they were 20 years old).

The battery is a new one, as well as the air filter.

I'm not sure if the fuel filters have ever been replaced, but I'd imagine they probably haven't, as the rest of the running gear hadn't been touched.

I also ran a can each of Seafoam through the last two tanks of gas, hoping that would clear up whatever is gunking up my carb, but it didn't seem to do the trick.

Eric Skayman

Personally, I'd say look into getting your carb redone or replacing it.
I had similar issues as yourself. Mine would only idle by itself after holding the throttle for a while, VERY poor acceleration (hesitated 90% of the time), and any time I let off the gas to slow down my whole car would bog and shut it self down.
Like yours, my carb was the original and never redone so I replaced it around 92,000 kms for around $350 for a brand new one. Fixed all these problems for me.
Just my two cents.

Cadaver Puncher

iTrader: (1)

Definitely get the carb rebuilt.
Sounds like a combination of things, the choke, possibly the jets, maybe the float. I don't know what carb you have.
My 92 is fuel injected. See if Holley or edelbrock or even Carter Has a replacement or performance replacement. Sometimes the extra couple bucks over a rebuild is well worth it.

zombienerd

Thanks for the input guys

I've got a rebuild kit here now, but I'm waiting for a few extra bucks to spend so I can pick up a new choke thermostat coil, and a pair of choke/secondary vacuum actuators.

I'm kinda afraid to try to rebuild it myself, as I've never torn apart a carburetor before, and there's lots of small parts and they're pretty picky about everything being lined up perfectly...

I've got the service manual for the carb, so I'm willing to give it a shot, I figure if I botch it, I'll just buy a new one, but I have to at least try. Rock Auto has new ones for under 400 bucks.

As for aftermarket, the only aftermarket solution for the 2.8 carbureted is a brand new intake and Holley 390 4 barrel carb... But then I have to modify some other stuff to keep the check engine and choke lights from staying on, as the carburetor is computer controlled, and the car does have a rudimentary ECM. Probably 600-700 bucks for parts, but some extra power comes from that... If I go that route, I'd probably pick up a new Cam as well, bringing me over a grand, which I can't really afford right now :P

zombienerd

I have already done the plugs/wires/cap/rotor now, as well as noticed that the Electric Choke Thermostat has been replaced in the past, and wasn't connected at all. When I plugged it in, the choke light would come on, and not go off no matter what I did (except once when it went off by itself after I had stopped for gas, but I haven't been able to reproduce the light going off).

I imagine whoever replaced the coil did it incorrectly, as the service manual has a nice long writeup on just aligning that part alone.

zombienerd

Ok. Here's an Update.

First thing I tried was changing the fuel filter. The old filter was full of rust and grime, and the little check valve inside was rusted out pretty well. This seemed to work great for a day and a half, the car was peppy, and had no jerky defueling going on.

Then the jerking came back under heavy throttle or going up hills at light throttle. So, I cut the hard fuel line, put rubber fuel line in the middle, with an extra fuel filter about 2 feet from the carb, and replaced the in-carb filter. This didn't seem to help much at all.

I finally broke down today and tore the carb apart. The fuel bowl had a good 1/2 a teaspoon full of rust particles and grime in the bottom. I replaced the needle and seat, all gaskets, the pump seals, mixture solenoid seal, cleaned the fuel body, throttle body and air horn VERY well, made sure ALL passages were clean, clear, and unobstructed, and adjusted everything to factory spec per the Varajet service manual. Everything looked good except the fast idle cam doesn't seem to be sitting in the right spots, I may have to bend a linkage or two to get it right.

Anyway, I get this freshly rebuilt and perfectly clean carb reinstalled on the engine, and on the first drive, I push WOT to see if it will pull all the way to 80 or so. I barely make it into 2nd gear before it starts jerking and sputtering again, wanting to stall.


So, now I'm thinking it's one of 3 things. Either the float isn't adjusted properly (doubtful, but possible, I did it to the manual's spec), the fuel pump is going out (doubtful as it only really has 5000 miles on it, but I won't rule it out due to age), or the fuel line is plugged up somewhere further back in the line and I'm not getting enough PSI to keep it happy.

I don't have the cash to spring on a fuel pressure gauge at the moment. My old man thinks I should attack the float first, and my cousin's husband thinks I should blow air back through the fuel line first to clear any obstructions... So, which one do you guys think I should do first, or maybe you have more ideas of things I haven't checked yet...


Oh, and my thermostat coil is definitely dead, I adjusted it perfectly by the service manual and am still getting a Choke light on the dash that won't go off Add another part to the list to replace.

zombienerd

If anyone else has a carbureted 2.8, and would be nice enough to pull off the air cleaner and take some close up shots of your linkages, I would be MOST appreciative.

I'm not 100% sure I got the fast idle cam installed correctly, nor the linkages from the primary and secondary vacuum actuators and choke. Something just isn't right, and I can't figure it out, so I need to see how it's supposed to look.

Extra points for triple-set pictures (car cold - not running, car just started, car warmed up) So I can troubleshoot which linkages need to be bent or moved, and in which direction

I know this is a long shot, and there's not much incentive, but I'd be really appreciative.

I really wish the so called "service manual" went into more detail about proper linkage position and adjustment :/

bison999

i got a ccc also on a 2.8 but i have the S/E idk if its much difference but i can get some pics, though when i did the rebuild of my carb i took some linkage off since i had no reason to keep the choke.

zombienerd

Buddy, that would rock. The 2.8 CCC is the 2.8 CCC, I don't think there was any difference between base and S/E under the hood. The only differences would be between A/C and non-A/C cars, and Automatic or Manual transmissions. But I wouldn't think the vacuum actuator linkages would be different even then.

If I can figure out the rest of the linkages, I'm sure the choke will be no problem to line up with the rest.

I'm positive they're all in the right holes, I just think some of them may be bent out of spec, and I'm just trying to verify the position on the cams (or whatever they're called) while in the three normal positions (car off, car started and cold, car started and warm). Mostly the linkages that the two vacuum actuators connect into, as well as the fast-idle cam, as it's the part that isn't moving when it's supposed to.

zombienerd

Ok, playing with the linkages this morning, I am pretty darned sure that something is wrong with the fast idle cam.

There's only one linkage that actually connects to it. The slider on the cam seems WAY too big for the movement that is possible by that linkage.

It seems to me like there's supposed to be a spring or something on the cam, as I can manually turn it clockwise without difficulty. And by moving it, I can disengage the claw that keeps the secondary closed, which I think is definitely part of my problem. I think it's supposed to either fall open by gravity or there's a spring missing somewhere, because without manual assistance, the cam never goes clockwise. It doesn't really seem sticky when I move it, so I'm leaning towards a missing spring or bottom linkage somewhere.

Anyhow, I've attached pictures of the three angles I'd like to see in your pictures, if you're willing

Spot 1: Full side linkage shot, focusing on the spinny piece I circled in thin white, Both Vacuum actuators are connected to it, as well as the choke and a linkage to the fast idle cam arm.

Spot 2: Choke Arm and secondary top flap arm. I know you removed your choke linkage, but the arm is probably still there (hopefully)

Spot 3: The best angle I could find on the Fast Idle Cam arm. This is the one that is suspect for me. One linkage sits near the top of the arm, and only pulls it to the topmost position when the choke is pulled shut, there seems to be something missing that would keep it pulled in the other direction. Either my linkage is too short (because it doesn't reach the other end of the slider in the arm), there's a missing linkage that usually sits at the bottom of the arm, or there's a missing spring. I'm hoping to find out which one of those it is.

Note, when the picture pops up, if you right click on it and click "Open image in new tab" you can zoom in and see a lot closer.

zombienerd

Just oiled the fast idle cam with some 15W40 I had in the garage... It moves a lot more freely now, and does seem to be gravity operated by the weight of the arm. I can now see I definitely have to adjust my choke linkage a bit for that part to work properly, but I'm still not 100% sure everything is sitting where it's supposed to :/

bison999

I got a pic of the linkage in the hot off position. and ill get the cold and cold running just been busy all over.