rhyspat

Hi All,
My 2.8 motor is currently out of the car and I have done some bottom end work on it (reground crank, replaced bearings, new oil pump, new timing gear, gaskets etc....).

Nearly ready to put it back in the car, however I am wondering if I should attach the transmission to the engine now before lowering it in ?

I remember (a long time ago now) that when taking out the engine, the car was not high enough to pull them out together (although I though I had the front raised pretty high). I ended up splitting them to get the engine out.


Looking for advise on how to do this the easiest way (dont really want to have to be on my back re-installing the tranny under the car).

Thanks,
Rhys.

Gumby

Id put the clutch and bell housing n all on, but the tranny after. less to balance n move around.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I agree. Not to hard to attatch the trans afterwards if you have a nice long extention to reach the bolts.

rhyspat

Thanks Guys. Good Idea - I was mainly worried about getting to the bell housing to motor bolts as they are right against the firewall once the engine is in.


Also,
Any advice on centering up the clutch w/out a centering tool ?
Should I prime the oil pump with a drill bit down the distributor or is that a waste of time ?

Thanks for your help.
Rhys

Gumby

nope the engine will want to lean back and give access to those bolts, remember to remove your dizzy cap.

I did mine alone, not heavy at all, now the TH350 I did alone nearly killed me.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I did my 700r a few times. 2 times with no help. That nearly killed me too. Getting it out was easy, it was getting it back in.

Gumby

for the TH I bought long bolts that could screw into the block and cut the heads off, giving a smooth shank for it to slide on and self clock into position.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Not quite sure what you mean by this , but there is no turning the oil pump with a drill bit that I've ever heard of ......

Now , if you do want to pre oil your engine , the right way is to take an old distributor and make one of these out of it . The bottom has the gear completely ground off , and the top has all the timing stuff removed and the shaft milled down to fit into a 3/8 drill .

This is the only safe way to turn the oil pump without the engine turning to pre oil the passages . Any thing else , like a drill bit , is bound to create more trouble than just not pre oiling it at all ...

Good Luck ...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Um, you don't need a special tool to prime the engine... Use a 1/4 square to 1/4 hex adapter (generally for things like nutdrivers), long extension, and, I believe, a 3/8" socket (IIRC, been a while since I did mine and I'm not going to remove the oil pump drive to find out). Put the hex in your drill and spin it up... Of course, you need the drive shaft in the pump to do this...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

agree with mav. Every time I torn mine down I prime the pump the same way. Hes right

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Yep , also seen the Hex adapter done . Wobbles a bit more than my method , but still effective .

..... But , of course , this has nothing to do with the OP's mentioned drill bit , which is what prompted my original comment .

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure he ment what we are saying. He just said it in a different aspect

At least that's what I'm hoping.

backgammon7

Would there be any benefit to using the starter with the ignition coil unhooked? I figure that it would be better than a dry start but not at good as running the pump alone.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Whenever possible I like to stab both the engine AND transmission in together. I find it MUCH easier to assemble them outside of the car, than to crawl around under a vehicle trying to get the transmission in.

There are a few exceptions, like an S-10, due to how high the engine and trans would need to be raised, to fit in together. I usually put the bellhousing on, and install just the trans itself afterwards. The other exception so far has been a particular 240Z that I worked on, it seemed to be easier to install just the engine first and then install the trans from under. Though, my 240Z, I was able to both remove and install the engine and trans together with ease.

cj z28

ah I remember pulling mine from the s10 was a total pain but would of been worse trying to put them in separate I did however break my distributor in the process :/

rhyspat

Yeah, I meant pull the dist and tape a socket onto the end of an extension to drive the hex oil pump drive with an electric drill. Does oil squirt up where the distributor would have been when you do this ?.


Was cleaning the engine tonight and noticed one of the exhaust manifold bolts is sheared off flush with the manifold. My oldest kid noticed it ticking from the exhaust when it was running, so I guess thats what it was. It's was not blowing, just a tick.

In two minds to pull this off now and fix it. I just want to get this blasted thing back in the car already........

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

I personally prefer putting the transmission on first. It's so much easier to install the transmission with the engine out. I just balance the drivetrain so the transmission is at an angle, then when the combo is in far enough, put a jack under the trans to level it back out. I've done this with a V6 and a V8 in a thirdgen. If you can't get the cherry picker high enough for the trans tail to clear the upper rad support, just get a friend to swing it out of the engine bay.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

No oil wont be shooting out of the dizzy hole when you prime it.

And yes its a common affar for the bolts to be sheared off the heads on our cars. How many of the bolts are sheared off?? Back when I first took my manifolds off I had 3 that were busted off. I used some orange RTV with new gaskets and had no leaking issues. Then later I finally got the bolts out and retapped the heads.

rhyspat

Only one of the manifold bolts is broken (just the head off the bolt is missing).
I didn't want to start removing the rest of the bolts in case others starting shearing off too.

How about using an EZ out on it (have not used EZ out's before) ?

Gumby

take a stick welder and weld the manifolds to the block, never leak again. [I swear thats what I would do, sick of header leaks]

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

If you want to take the manifolds off.... then get that engine warmed up(if possible) or get a blow torch on those bolts. Just dont catch the car on fire.. Thats the only real chance you have at getting out all of the manifold bolts as easy as possible.

If they break...you can always fix them. Either a ez out(which is iffy at times) or just drill them out on a drill press then retapping them. Theres some other ways also if it comes down to it.

You only have one broken and it leaks to where you can hear it at idle? I had 3 busted before and ran a turbo(boosted exhaust pressures) Granted it was probly leaking under bost but you could never hear it at idle.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Everytime I've used a drill to prime 660, there has been a LOT of oil at the dizzy hole. That's why I made a custom priming tool, made from an old dizzy. Before making that tool, I used rags wrapped around an extension (shaft) to contain the oil.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I never had a issue with the oil. But I guess 50W will do that.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

I had the same experience as Six Shooter , in fact , when using the oil primer I showed in the picture I posted the O ring was bad in it and a good amount of oil leaked . If a bad O ring will make a big leak , I would think no O ring would leak like hell ... I put a good O ring on the primer and it didn't leak again .

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Funny, when using a drill, I've built up to about 50-60 PSI (as shown on the gauge, which I have found to be pretty accurate in my case) and never had oil shoot out of the dizzy hole like has been described... With 10W-30 and -40 oil. Must be something with those primer things...

rhyspat

Should I fill with oil and prime it with the engine out of the car ?.
Engine is already out, so I can get to everything nice and easy at the moment.......

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

If you have the pan full of oil , the oil filter on , the oil pressure sender installed , sure , it would probably be easier . The pushrods and rockers for the valves gotta be installed too . So long as you've got all the oiling system parts in place you should have no problem doing the pre oil before putting the engine back .

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

If you have a totaly assembled engine. It doesnt really matter IMO. I Primed my engine just before I sat it in the car last time. 2 hrs later I started it up. But I also used mass assembly lube. Its up to you if you want to do it before you set it in or after. I think its easier before as that dizzy bolt is just a PITA regardless.

I put the engine back in just like this. Every part on it except some turbo stuff and the coil. Tossed the tranny on afterwards (takes like 1 hr to get that (trans) done)



Dumb question but you did use assembly lube on all the internals when you put it back together??

rhyspat

Yes, I used assembly lube that the machine shop gave me.

Will try to prime it up tonight then once I put the a new oil filter on it and put some oil in.
Could I get away with looking in the oil filler cap with a torch instead of having to take the valve covers off (I only get about 2 hours a night to work on this thing, so trying to minimize taking anything else off).

Thanks for all your help.
Rhys

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

With a tourch??? You mean a light?? Dont worrie about taking the valve covers off again.

Just prime (with the drill) for a good 60 seconds and that will be sufficient. Believe me you dont need to make it too difficult. You used assembly lube on everything so you will be safe.

Gumby

if ya always pack the oil pump with vasolien, youll always prime quick.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Ive always found that a funny translation also . To the English , a torch is what we call a Flashlight .

I owned an MG Midget years ago , and had the "official" Morris Garage repair manual that was written in "the King's English" rather than our American English . Stuff like "tyres" for tires was pretty easy to decipher , but codespeak like calling the trunk "the Boot" wasn't quite so easy .

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I guarantee you that you had the drill running in the wrong direction.

Think about this, a cracked dizzy O-ring will cause a fast leak on a running engine, meaning there is plenty of pressure and flow at the dizzy hole. So with nothing in that hole, oil is absolutely 100% guaranteed to come out of that hole, when running the pump in the correct direction.

I like to prime the oil systems with the engine in and ready to fire, that way there is little time for the oil to drain back and leave any metal to metal areas dry. Sometimes, I will also turn the engine over, either by hand, or with the starter, but only in certain situations. I've never done that with a fresh rebuild, since I also use assembly lube, but an engine that has sat for many years, that I am only trying to get fired again, I will turn over while priming it, to make sure that there is oil coating every surface, and on every rocker. Some engines will not allow oil to flow to every rocker with the cam in certain positions or due to the oil passage around the lifter.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Do explain how, if the dizzy turns CLOCKWISE and I spin the oil pump CLOCKWISE and BUILD OIL PRESSURE, that I'm turning the oil pump BACKWARDS. Your logic makes no sense. One would tend to think that if the oil pump were being turned backwards that no oil pressure would be built. Unless I am wrong... But you can go on believing that, even though there was nice clean oil coming out of the rocker arms ... With no massive oil spill coming out of the dizzy hole.

Think about this for a second. The dizzy, when installed, leaves little room for the oil to travel back downwards in the bore, so pressure builds up enough to force oil past a worn o-ring and/or dizzy gasket (I use both BTW, have for years, and I already know your feelings about that from older posts, and I'm not going to argue about misalignment of the cam and dizzy gears), you know, like the lifter bodies? You leave space in the dizzy bore by not installing the dizzy, there isn't going to be a massive oil pressure buildup, so therefore, no oil spraying out of the bore. Which is why I can spin the oil pump with a drill and socket extensions for a full 2 minutes if I want to and not make a giant mess.

I'm done with this thread... Some of the posts in here have logic crazy enough to kill Mr. Spock...

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

If there is 50 PSIG of oil pressure built at the pump, then there will be nearly 50 PSIG of oil pressure at the dizzy hole, regardless of whether the dizzy is actually installed or not.

EVERY 660 I have primed, and there have been a few (), has caused a large amount of oil to come out of the dizzy hole while priming, since there's a large hole that is the end of one of the lifter oil galleys that passes right into the dizzy hole.

The only way that it wouldn't cause a large amount of oil to come out of that hole, is by either turning the oil pump backwards or extremely slowly that will not build more than about 4 PSIG, which will do very little to priming the oiling system.

project89

iTrader: (1)

if u prime the engine without a modified distributor in place u will not get any oil to the crank/rods .

the top of the distributor completes one of the oil feed galleys that feeds the lower end of the engine and yes o il will spray everywere , using a speed handle and a socket which is about 10x slower then a drill on low speed wouldpump the oil pan dry in about 1-2 minutes


if a high quality engine assembly lube is used and it isnt months before the engine is to be fired , simply unplugging the iginition coil and fuel injector harness or pulling there respective fuses and then cranking the engine with the starter is just fine to prime the oil system

rhyspat

Yes, I am an English guy living in Canada (eh!). Sometimes I forget to translate into American English before writing. Sorry about that - hehe.

Well I did not get time to prime the oil pump tonight. Ended up working on that busted exhaust stud (PB blaster and EZout worked their magic). All is good there now ready for a new bolt.

Also spent time cleaning up the battery tray. Battery had been leaking on it and corroded the tray a bit (not too bad - phew). Spread baking soda paste on it and under it to neutralise the acid. Gonna have to paint that now.......

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Works for me ....