TFM4th

i have a stock 2.8L engine w/ 135HP in my car right now and i am hoping to get at least 200 HP under the hood of my car by switching to a 3.4L engine and mod it out. but i was wondering how much horse power could my car handle if i didnt want to switch all the things like the people doing v6 to a v8 swap.

V6camaroman

instead of doing that big 3.4 swap i think you should play with your 2.8 try doing some of the mods i have. desk top dyno said i have 183 hp right now.

Joe_L

Desk top Dyno what is this you speak of?
I need to get me this. Where is it at.
Off to search engines I guess.

183. Go to the track. I want to see times on this 2.8.

TFM4th

how much did all your mods cost you though? i was thinking it would be cheaper to swap engines... plus i have 130,000 miles on the engine right now and i dont know when its gunna go, its running strong right now but for how long... especially w/ adding mods to it

ChillPhatCat

Well... if you're going to swap engines and you're looking for 200 Hp, you should seriously consider going to a V8... I commend efforts to make what you have work, but it seems kinda pointless to switch to a bigger V6 when your goal will be very easily met with an 8.

I'm not telling you to put a 350 in like all the others would... but you should consider your goals and then reassess your plan accordingly.

87GTA57L

I know this guy that lives around me, he has a grand national with a v6. he says It's 940hp. no joke. the turbo is HUGE!
correct me if i'm wrong but is this possible? I've seen this car and heard it go..it sounds like a jet. I've never ever seen a car that would keep up to this, even a v-8!


87GTA57L

CaliCamaroRS

Don't know much about the 3.8L turbo GN, huh?? Do some searches and you'll see what those Grand Nationals are capable of......

ChillPhatCat

Well, just to put things into perspective, any amount of power can be created with a limited number of cubes... I've heard of Supras putting 800 Hp down with close to stock engines and large aftermarket turbos... that's a 3.0L I6

AND if you want to be stupified, Mazda puts a 2.6L rotary engine in their LeMans cars and they put out 700 Hp Naturally Aspirated!

89camaroRSV6

mazdas rotary gives more hp for the cubic inches because it has no valves just ports .... its more like a 2 stroke enigne


but the 700Hp racer is it really a 2.6L N/A i thought it had a turbo ....too

maverick544

yo bro, If I had 3 grand I would toss a nice aftermarket 350 from GM Goodwrench. But like 99% of the people on this board we dont really got that kind of money. With 133K niles I would go with a 3.4L with NOS, and there working on a turbo and supercharger in the future so that could be added later. I got just over 100K on my baby and she's chillen in my garage waitng for a shiny new paint job, and me to get my lazy butt out there when its warm enoght and toss on the cowl hood and ground effects. I plan on doing a 3.4 swap most likly next winter, but for now that 2.8L will run its course for the summer. I plan on keeping my car forever if possible, so eventually when I'm making the big bucks after college I will go for that nice GM goodwrench 350ci. GOODLUCK BRO!

ChillPhatCat

Well, the history of the racecars they entered that I read said nothing about turbos... it looked like they would have if it was.

You have to keep in mind that the 2.6 is a 4 rotor design which would act more like a 12 cyl engine... Another thing I read is that they classified it as a 4.7L piston driven engine to fit it in a comparable bracket.

89camaroRSV6

yeah i have driven Rx7's those things are crazy as hell... they rev like a motorcycle engine...

lol 2.6 litre engine classified as a 4.7 man...

wankel engines :hail:

Project: 85 2.8 bird

the 94 3.4 from the camaro I'm getting is rated : 160hp @4500
200tq@3500. these are bigger numbers @lower rpms than the 85 2.8. Add C_H_D brand headers, improved exhaust, full roller rocker arms, synthetic oil, shift kit/centerforce clutch, ram air/cai, improved ignition. this should get you close to the 200hp mark, if not over. forced induction couldn't hurt either

89camaroRSV6

lol CHD brand headers... the only brand of headers u can buy for a V6 ...

Camaro_hunter_d

you could also do some Ebay shopin and get the turbo stuff too... I just got bids on anintercoller for under 50(ends in 18 hours, and a blow off valve for $1.Ends in less then 24 hours...

TFM4th

okay i think i just might go w/ the v8 swap.. maby. if i were to find a 1991 formula w/ the 5.0L 170 hp V8 engine in it, or a 5.7L(but w/ the 5.7L i dont think i can have 5spd manual)... first of all would it fit in my car... and approximatly how much would everything cost me. the only answer i see people getting to that question is "a lot of money" any one know how much.. i just got a job that will be paying me well and i dont have any bills to pay except for my car so i can just save till i reach my goal. the reason i like those engines is cause of the gas mileage.. its better than what im getting now and it has more power.. you cant beat that

Joe_L

Buy a V-8 car if you want a V-8. Not to sound stupid. But if your car was carbed then you could pic up an 305 or 350 and swap it in with alot less effort. But an FI motor performs better but seems to have a lot of head aches involved.
Think about this.
You will need a new driveshaft.
Transmission.
Radiator.
Should get a stiffer front suspension.
Change computer.
Change wiring harness.
And countless other items.

If you want a V-8 car in the long run it is usually cheaper to go out and buy the all ready assembled product in our 3rd gen case.

An FI swap your probably looking at a minimum of 1800-2000 dollars for all the above pieces. And I mean thats alot of junk yard hunting.

TFM4th

wow that is more than i expected just for the extra parts... okay now back to my original question, if i didnt want to replace all these parts......................
new driveshaft.
Transmission.
Radiator.
Should get a stiffer front suspension.
Change computer.
Change wiring harness.
And countless other items

how much HP would i be able to get without ripping all of these parts into pieces?

KED85

What is this great concern with horsepower?
A 3.4, as is, is one fine engine!
If ya wanna go faster/HP, get a V-8.
It is so simple.

TFM4th

i dont want to go crazy fast i just want to give it a kick in the @$$ and i was thinking in the range of 165-200 HP would make me a happy camper thats all

Project: 85 2.8 bird

the 3.4 from the 4th gens are factory w/160 hp

KED85

Right now all I am doing is refinement of my swap.
I haven't touched the engine.
I will be getting Fiero valve covers.
For that my 3.4 covers must be off.
I may go for 1.52 roller tip rockers.
All I want now is a smoother Y pipe to CC and add a V-8 Pipe set up system.
I pass cars a 75+ to 90 wit great ease.
I leap over hills.
I can spin sideways into a lane change.
I've never had so much fun with an engine/car package. I keep making the car better, the engine as they sit (3.4, running perfect) is a champ.
Do everything you can to the car, not the engine.

ChillPhatCat

new driveshaft - $15
Rebuilt Junkyard Transmission. - $500
New Radiator. - $100
Stiffer front suspension. -$100
Change computer. - N/A
Change wiring harness. N/A
And countless other items. (mostly parts off donor car... distributer and possibly a couple other major ones)

The suspension you should get new... You don't need to switch computers... that is you should really just ditch it cause it's not worth the trouble. starting with an L69, put on a good aftermarket intake and non-cc carb... and finally adding headers and a Cat-back... you should be pushing 220 Hp right there. Done!

I bet it could be done for $3k

The question you want to ask is this: Is your car's body in nice shape? If this is a car with a flawless body then I would say it's worth the trouble.

ChillPhatCat

I don't want to seem like an ***, but all those things you listed are not elements of a good strong motor... they're signs of driving too fast.

How easily can you take off from a dead stop sideways?

I mean even for passing cars at 75+ you're at a point where the 6 cyl is making more power... I can follow a car at 40 until there's an opening and then drop into 3rd, stomp on the gas and overtake them at 75 before I pass their front bumper and that's with only a slightly modded LG4... going from 135 - 160 Hp won't show much of a difference in most areas... for dead stop acceleration and 1/4 mile runs you will definitely see the difference between a 5.0L/5.7 vs a 3.4

I just don't see a point to swapping a V6 for a V6 since it will only be a minor difference... just as I see no point in going from 305 SBC to 350 SBC.

KED85

Don't want to seem like an ***......
You don't know the pleasure of TORQUE, that's all.
When you can run to the top, not outta breath and then keep going faster, that's HP.
That's what going to a 3.4 under the hood does in LA.
Ask Fast RS how well this car does off the line.
Driving fast?
No, keeping up with traffic in LA on "off rush" hour drives.
Try long drives at 80, getting 25-28 MPG, not breathing hard. For over an hour, steady.

Find some one that has a 60's ride.
Ask them for a demostration.
Any brand.
Get back to me.
Maybe, then, you'll understand how powerful an engine can feel.

In Ithaca, you have plenty of examples of torque, needed.
Lots of hills there.
Believe me, there is ALOT of difference between a 350 and a "305".
And a 350 will be way cheaper to build up more power, any second of the day.
I wouldn't waste a second on a 305, except to remove it and sell it. A 305 is as worthless as a 307 and a 70's vintage 265.

Torque and Cubic Inches ALWAYS RULE AND WIN THE RACE.

ChillPhatCat

If a 305 is worthless, why are you working on a 3.4 conversion? There's no way it's easier to mod a 3.4 than a 305, and you're not gonna get the torque of a 305.... The point I make between 305 and 350 is that I would probably put in a 400 or 454 if I were going to yank the engine... the difference on the top end between 305 and 350 is only about 50 Hp and maybe 80 lb-ft of torque... I would be plenty happy with 300 Hp in my 305.

KED85

My 3.4 is "modded" from the factory.
I mod what's left, exhaust, air inlet, suspension.
IF I could get a 400 and have no wear problems or burnt pistons or bad heating because it's such a bored out 350 and find a GOOD NON-BORED 400 core as easy as a 4 bolt main 350, I'd do that, in a chevy heart beat.
I had a Pontiac 400 Block.
I know what a big block is like.
I like the cost/power success ratio of a small block.
I've decided to stay with the small block. Chevy 350's are a dime a dozen. Why waste your $$ on smaller (305) core, just because you have it?

ChillPhatCat

N/M

I didn't mean my statement to turn into a v6 vs v8 argument... Simply that if 200 Hp is what you're looking for... A nearly stock L69 will do it without trouble.

I plan on modding the hell out of my 305 for the "challenge"... and because everybody and their brother puts a 350 in... I guess it's the same motivation of a 3.4 conversion.

BTW I would be reluctant to put in a 400 SBC... I'd more likely go to the hassle of dropping in a BBC because of those thin cylinder wall issues. Was there a 400 BBC or was it the 403 Olds motor I am thinking of?

oh well \/\/

KED85

All I can say (about a 305 vs. 350) for the same money spent.......
402 BBC
403 OLDS
DIFFERNT ENGINES.
A 396/402 is the "same"
400 biggest from the factory small block.
396, samllest big block.
A 402 is a 396.
In the early 70's GM got by several smog required issues by boring that 396 .030 over. to become a 402.
BUT "396" sounded better.
I'd rather have a 350 in aluminum, myself.
Lots of power NO WEIGHT!
YET, I'D BE STUPID to SAY I WOULDN'T WANT A ZL-1 427 Chevy.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

just put in the 400 poncho. not a big block, not a small block, easily converted to a 455 w/just a new crank (available from Jim Butler for only $399), block grinding for clearence (maybe not w/the new crank), a .030 overbore, & 455 standard pistons. reuse intake & heads.

GM also offers the 2.8 aluminum block for a meere $3,000
now who wouldn't want to fork out the $$$$$$ for that

maverick544

hey guys, what if we were to have a 86 TA witha 5.0L TPI. How hard would it be to take everything from that car and put it in my 89 V6.

KED85

Besides rewiring the entire dash, firewall, car,
it's an easy swap.
Rreally wiring kills how easy this swap is.

Joe_L

The degree if dificulty in changing it is not as much of a problem as the funds needed. See this whole argument has gone nuts. Just listen to me again want a V-8 Buy a V-8 car. Save you the hassel.

If you have a donor car right there it would be easier to do. Look at the car and see how it came out. Then put it back in yours.
but still why waste all the effort.

You might say I saw a Camaro for 500, well if its that cheap something tells me the engine has been tortured. Besides if you can get the V-8 for that cheap buy that car and run it.
What if you want to sell this unit. Most people if there like me steer clear of cars that have been converted like this. Theres a 88 firebird with a 327 in it for 1400 near my place hasn't sold. Why cause the idiot screwed it up. Even if he didn't no one wants a hack job car.

The original Question was I want about 200hp.
Get the 3.4.
Read Keds Simple swap.
You have 160 right off.
Throw on a better flowingexhaust probably have closer to 170.
In the long run it will be cheaper to do the V-6 swap.
Think with all the money you saved on this swap you can get ready to save up and buy yourself a TA or Iroc.

KED85

It is his time and effort.
All one can say is this.
"Perhaps" I paved the way to make a simple swap such a pleasant upgrade, using your current fondation.
Atleast 22+ people have followed the 2.8 to 3.4 Long Block Swap Boogie.
Not one complaint as I wasted my time.
Why?
It's such a simple, good idea, that works out well.
Not a SINGLE one of us, with a car platform of a 1985 model year to the 1992 cars, have converted to a V-8.
Think about why that may be.
It is your time and effort.
PS, my swap is so simple, effective, sanitary, it passed the TOUGHEST approval test of them all.
The California Bi-annual Smog test.
$800.00, including engine, not counting gas I spent to go to the project.
And I've given you directions to make you cost lower on parts needed for the swap.

IF you have a 1982-84 V-6, go V-8!!

Brian K

You can easily run 1HP per Cubic Inch with our cars. If you’re looking at a MAX HP you can push, in my 4X4 Magazine Ford had a 2.8 with 275HP for off road racing, so why can’t you make the same power. One thing the mag did state, the reason they went with the 2.8 is because it revs easily and smoothly and can wind out.

TFM4th

i was thinking on buying a trans am doner car for a v8 swap, but im not really sure what im gunna do.. swaping to a 3.4 and getting a better exaust for about 170HP for cheaper than a v8 swap, sounds pretty good to me considering the stock v8 birds have 170HP dont they?... man i wish i was rich then i wouldnt care what is cheaper i would just send it to some guy and say make it really really fast and i could spend as much money as i wanted on it

rx7speed

it would still be a 4 stroke

intake/exhaust/power/compression


all are seperate "strokes" so to speak and not all mixed together as a 4 stroke

look at my avatar and you can see what I am talking about


and chillcatphilli

it would be more like a 8 cyl rather then a 12 cyl

like my 2 rotor is more like a 4 cyl

TFM4th

hey 3.4L engines come w/ air conditioning dont they?, that is a must in my next engine. the one i have now dosent have it and i cant stand it! last summer i was driving home from work and i had a pop can in the passenger seat and it ended up exploding, and i had pop everywhere. i thought someone threw a water baloon at me cause i had my t tops off. i cant stand heat, im a person that gets lost a lot and the heat just pisses me off even more. another time i brought my friend w/ me to get my windows tinted and it was hot out... when they finished tinting my windows they told me i shouldnt open the windows for i think it was a day, well it was like 80 degrees out that day.. i remeber driving w/ the passenger door open on the highway cause it was so unbarably hot.

KED85

Your comment on AC brings this point.
You need a new ride.
Find yourself a V-8 3rd gen & work on that.
90% of the work will be done for your (the V-8 swap & ac set up).
You just have to bring, all the V-8 3rd gen car stuff not working when ya buy the car, back to life.
Start fresh.

ChillPhatCat

I was thinking two cylinders = one rotor and somehow (probably sleep deprivation) I came up with 12 cylinders... oh well LOL