So, yeah, combo selection is about to drive me nuts. One thing I did do was buy a set of AFR 180cc heads. I'm going 383 with a fairly mild cam, likely the Comp cams 08-503-8, 224/230 @.050 112 LSA. I have a 2400 stall and 3.73 gears, and I'm debating between a siamesed TPI setup and a mini-ram. I like torque but I also want to run in the 12s. With the smaller intake heads and cam, would a mini-ram be worth while?

 

I ran the next larger cam on my 383 along with a set of AFR 190 heads and a MiniRam. The car went 11.61 and was very consistent. With your gear and that cam, the MiniRam will work great!

Don't let all the talk about loss of torque worry you, With the 383 or now my 406, the car is a monster at launch as well as a 25 roll.

 

After reading about Minirams vs LTRs all day, I'm pretty much sold on the MR except for my head choice. Are the 180cc AFRs going to give me the punch I want with the MR to about 6000 RPM in a 383? If anything I thought maybe the smaller port/higher velocity intake would put some of that torque back on the table at low/midrange and let the MR feed it to about 5500-6000. I am NOT trying to build a high RPM 383 designed mainly for track use; I want good low end that will pull strong and even to 6 grand.... a fun street car that will hit 12s at the track when I take it a few times a year. I'm not interested in a superram and I'm not going to cut my hood bracing (or buy a Ram Air hood) for a Stealth Ram. I also don't want a tow truck 383 that's going to roast my tires and then choke out 1000 RPM later, which is what I think I'd end up with staying with LTRs.

 

I'm very impressed with the flow numbers from the AFR 180's. They will work very well with the MiniRam. With the AFR heads and the cam you listed, the motor should pull to 62-6300. When I tuned my motor on the chassis dyno, my peak HP was at 6500. Are you looking at the AFR Eliminator's?

 

Yes, the new castings. I also compared the flow numbers, what I could find on the 180s goes up to .500 but they are better or equal to the Eliminator 195s until .500 where the 195s outflow on the intake by 10cfm. I'm just being cautious

 

That combo is going to perform better than you think. I am very impressed and pleased with the MiniRam. What are you using for engine management? What size injectors?

 

Sticking with the TPI, but I have a friend who has software/hardware for full tuning of the system. Burns his own PROMS, etc. and we have access to a chassis dyno, so it will be dyno tuned. 30lb/hr injectors.

 

Where's Troy? I'm near Akron.

 

I'm about 15 miles north of Dayton on 75.

 

I am running that same cam on a pair of AFR 195's on a Holley Stealth Ram and it pulls to about 6000. I love it I shift at 5800. You will be very pleased with that cam and the AFR heads.

 

Did you have trouble fitting your SR under your hood?

 

my hood will close with some extra help though. I have to keep lightly banging on my hood around the front middle of the hood and then it will close. I looked on the underside of the hood the other day and I saw the screws for the TB are indented on the underside of the hood! I don't think I have muc to worry ab but I am going to a Ram Air Hood around X-Mas time (Wife's X mas gift). Either that or grind away that portion of the hood with a dremel tool and use the hood money for other goodies.....Nitrous maybe?hehehehe

By the way, I am interested in making my L98 into a 383. What kit would you recommend?

 

When you say "that portion of the hood" are you talking specifically about the bracing (I hope) or the actual hood?

As far as a stroker kit goes I am still researching. Seems like that's all I do now is reasearch, heh. There are a ton of nice Scat and Eagle 383 rotating assemblies that include pistons good for high 9s compression (Iron heads) mid 10s (aluminum) forged, hypereutectic, etc. and I'm not completely sold on just which way to go yet as far as brand or piston material.

 

yes the bracing. Sorry if I mislead you.

I was under the impression you already had your 383. I am debating between Nitrous or 383.....Not a big fan of nitrous but its serious horsepower. S/C ehhhh its cool and fun to play in but my comp is 9.3 or so. Don't think that is too good for forced induciton. dont feel like messing with those heads anymore than i have to

 

I'm buying parts for it right now, actually. I have the heads and I'll be ordering the cam soon when I make a final decision on the intake. I'm actually coming off of a supercharged application, the blower grenaded and dumped metal debris into the oil return, trashing my bearings. If you do decide to go S/C stick with a Procharger, as the P600b was the only model to tap into the car's oil system and they no longer make it. Vortech taps in and I'm pretty sure Powerdyne does too. They don't tell you that if you have a catastrophic bearing failure all that metal goes into your intake and oil pan.

How long did you spend tuning with the Stealth Ram?

And you're running 9.3:1 with those AFR heads? I was recommended 10.5:1 or so with that cam because the heads are aluminum....

 

On my 383, I had the block zero decked and ran flat top pistons. I also had the AFR's milled to 62cc. The compression was 11:0-1. I was still able to run pump gas and pass emmissions. Also with the higher compression, it had a real snappy throttle. The important thing is to get the quench around .040, this keeps the motor from being octane sensitive.

index

 

maybe that could account for why i only gained roughly 80 RWHP with that head/cam combo......

 

Gunner, as HiTech5 said, don't let people scare you about the Miniram - the people the tend to bad mouth it have never had one. I own one and one of my buddies has one on his. Mine is a ported Aluminum L98 head setup with a fairly mild Crane Cam while his is a heavily ported AFR 195 solid roller setup. Both make lots of torque and rev like crazy.

And that is really the key - the Miniram allows you to rev. If your engine is going to remain EXACTLY as you plan without ANY future modifications, you could look at other intakes (HSR, SR or Siamesed TPI)...your choice is really what are the max revs you ever plan to pull.

With the MR, you have the option to go bigger cam and have an intake that can handle it. You MAY even consider a solid roller one day (don't let people scare you from that either). Then an intake like an MR almost becomes a necessity.

The only thing you may wish to look at is the new AFR 195 Eliminator heads and get a larger port MR (1205). The problem I currently have, my MR is only a (1204). I can make it work with the AFR 195s with a lot of porting, but the metal will get thin. A 1205 port size is better to start with.

My buddy and I always talk about our MRs, and the only thing we say today (if we had to do it all over again)...we would have looked at going with an intake like a Victor and convert it to EFI. Then, we could also run a cold air scoop or an aftermarket hood for cowl-induction.

 

I've heard guys talk about this before. How does one calculate or determine "quench"? I'm getting ready to install some AFR195's (not the Eliminators), and am wondering if I need to mill them a bit or play with the head gasket thichness - I want to do this "right"....

FWIW, I'm currently using a SuperRam but will probably try a converted LT1 intake when I install the heads.

 

Quench is the thickness of the head gasket plus how far your pistons are down the hole. In some cases above the hole as on the LS1. On my current build I'm going with a .035" quench. Piston .007" down the hole plus the .028" head gasket.

 

Thank you sooooo much for that brief and clear explanation!!!

Why I never understood it to be that simple, I'll never know. So, since my flat-top valve relieved pistons are .010" in the hole, if I want a .040 quench I'd have to use a .029 head gasket, right?

So, what determines what a "good" quench is? If your compression is in the 10.0 - 10.5 range on a 385 (.040 over with 5.7 rods if that makes a difference)? Cam specs make a difference? Aluminum heads like my new AFR's make a diffrence vs. cast iron like my Sportsman IIs?

Just trying to learn here as well as set the new heads up right......

 

A good quench is .040". As stated, it's the clearance between the piston and the flat surface of the cylinder head. The more clearance, the more octane sensitive the motor becomes.

 

Hi Vern

Yours would be .039" quench which is good. .029" head gasket plus .010" down the hole. I have read that .035" is about a low as you want to go on the street. I know there are motors out there running on the street with quench numbers in the high .020's.

Another area to study up on if you haven't already is dynamic compression ratio or dcr. I'm going with a DCR of 8.5:1 along with my .035" quench and flat-top pistons.

 

What dynamic compression ratio should one shoot for, assuming around a .040 quench, with aluminum heads? I've seen 8.5:1 as the high limit but is that only for iron heads, or does head material not matter when dealing with DCR?

 

Head material does matter. With late AFR heads you should have no problem with a 8.5DCR. They have good quench pads along with a good combustion chamber design.

Most likely you will be running flat-top pistons or ones with a dish. They will help with knock and flame travel. .039" is a good quench number. You will also want a top notch cooling system and a good cold air intake system. These will also help in keeping detonation under control.

You should have no problem in getting to the mid twelves with proper tuning. I should be past that point with my next motor and I will be running 30 less cubic inches. I also will be running my modified TPI.

Heads is the key to horsepower. Sound like you have a good combination in the making and I bet you will exceed your goals.

 

I'm curious why you're sticking with a 355 over a 383. That was also my original plan, but a mechanic buddy of mine told me I'd be foolish not to go 383, for the money. Maybe I'm missing something in the cost ( I know it takes some machine work and a small base cam, what else?). My original plan was identical to yours, a nearly 400whp 355 with TPI. In fact the only reason I considered the miniram was because I was going 383 and I'm still not totally sold on it over a siamesed TPI setup. But I'm also worried about just wasting those extra cubes with 180cc heads (though the new elminator 180s outflow the original street 195s) and TPI, and ending up with a tow truck motor that burns my tires up and then dies at 5000RPM, and I'm thinking my 3.73s out back won't help things.

Ultimately my main concern is not putting together something mismatched. I have already purchased the heads and would prefer to stay with TPI, really. I think it would also be cool to get into the low-mid 12s with a TPI 355, and from what I am reading (especially with the flow and velocity of the new AFR 180s) it could be possible.

Sorry if I ramble and change gears alot, I have done nothing but read and research for the last few months and I have a lot of crap floating around upstairs!

 

I think you pretty well covered it. I would have had to buy pistons anyways wether a 355 or 383. If it was not for the California Smog tests I would probably go with the Holley Stealth Ram. So the only leagal choice for me is TPI or the Accel Super Ram for California.

I had access to a 400 block so if I was going to go bigger I would have just went the 400 route with 5.7 rods.

My ultimate goal is to get a 11.99 pass with a 355 and TPI. This will be with my fully loaded GTA. I feel pretty confident I can get to the low 12's with good tuning and launching of the line.

For next year's mods I'm looking into the 411 OBD11 computer and 4l60E transmission. Good thread on it in the TPI section.

I think you will be fine with those heads. You can get them ported to flow some more.