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Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downhill
Auto Detailing and AppearanceShare tips and tricks on how to make your Third Gen shine! Get opinions on products or how something tasteful looks on your Chevrolet Camaro or Pontiac Firebird.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
I don't know what the market research says, but I'd suspect that the Camaro appeals mostly to young men. I'd bet the Mustang has a much wider range of appeal, which is why it sells better.
Personally, I view a pony car as a toy and not my primary vehicle. A toy is bought with expendable income. I make a really good living and I won't go buy a new car just to have as a toy. They're too damn expensive! It's no wonder they don't sell well.
The vast majority of people don't care about lap times around a road course, they just want a practical car that goes like hell when they push the throttle. I think the upcoming sport SUV trend is going to be a big hit with a lot of people.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
I don't know what the market research says, but I'd suspect that the Camaro appeals mostly to young men. I'd bet the Mustang has a much wider range of appeal, which is why it sells better.
Personally, I view a pony car as a toy and not my primary vehicle. A toy is bought with expendable income. I make a really good living and I won't go buy a new car just to have as a toy. They're too damn expensive! It's no wonder they don't sell well.
The vast majority of people don't care about lap times around a road course, they just want a practical car that goes like hell when they push the throttle. I think the upcoming sport SUV trend is going to be a big hit with a lot of people.
Honestly the new Mustang is just a flat out better looking car than the new Camaro. DON'T BAN ME!
It's a SUV world but wait until the price of gas hits the 4 buck range again and people will be ditching them.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by Chopski
Honestly the new Mustang is just a flat out better looking car than the new Camaro. DON'T BAN ME!
It's a SUV world but wait until the price of gas hits the 4 buck range again and people will be ditching them.
Everyone has their own opinion. Hope you don't get banned for expressing one. I test drove both, among other cars, back in January. I didn't buy a new Camaro because of the high beltline, but overall I think it's a nice looking car. I didn't buy a Mustang because of that front end, which I think is just terrible. And while people rip the Camaro's interior which, in my opinion, isn't bad at all, I find the Mustang's interior to be ugly and very cheap.
If there's another gas spike, some people might dump the big SUVs, like Tahoes or Expeditions. But people who can afford those can afford more expensive gas, and certainly the people who can afford Escalades and Navigators. But people aren't going back to cars if there is a spike in the price of gas. Unfortunately, people want CUVs and SUVs now. But those have changed too. CUVs are the most popular products out there, and they get good gas mileage. There's very little MPG penalty in buying a CR-V, RAV4, Equinox, etc. It's not longer a choice between a low-mpg Explorer and a high-mpg Corolla.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
I don't know what the market research says, but I'd suspect that the Camaro appeals mostly to young men. I'd bet the Mustang has a much wider range of appeal, which is why it sells better.
Personally, I view a pony car as a toy and not my primary vehicle. A toy is bought with expendable income. I make a really good living and I won't go buy a new car just to have as a toy. They're too damn expensive! It's no wonder they don't sell well.
The vast majority of people don't care about lap times around a road course, they just want a practical car that goes like hell when they push the throttle. I think the upcoming sport SUV trend is going to be a big hit with a lot of people.
You're right about pony cars today. They are toys. That wasn't the case when 3rd gens were new. They weren't the most practical cars. But the back seat, while not the most comfortable place, was usable. The trunk was decent especially if you put the rear seat down. I drove 3rd gens for many years as primary vehicles and they were really pretty practical. I had a 5th gen where the back seat room was almost non-existent, and that's only gotten worse with the 6th gen. At 5'11" I'm not tall, but when I've test driven 6th gens and Mustangs, the driver's seat is within an inch of touching the back seat. The back seat is useless. And at least with the Camaro, the trunk has become a joke.
They're not cheap, but when I bought my first 3rd gen, I paid $17,700 for a Formula in early 1990. That's equal to between $34K and $35K today. So the prices in real dollar are pretty close. And they do have that lower cost V8 option coming up in 2020, which is a great move.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by blackgloves
Wow, i just went back and read some of these replies. Lots of misinformation, and strong opinions. People are posting pics of other generations and using some unflattering photos and then using a flattering picture of 3rd gens. Ok, we get it, you love your 3rd gen. But at least be honest with yourself. Post a picture of a 35th anniversary WS6 or SS. Or the 30th anniversary WS6 that was rocking the blue wheels. Those cars looked awesome. There were lots of terrible looking models made during the 3rd generation time period. I'll stop there because some of you may be driving them.
The reason Camaro sells are down...let me stop there. ALL 3 (Camaro, Mustang, Challenger) are declining. It has to do with the market and not the styling. People dont want to spend money on a vehicle like this. SUV sales and pick ups are where the money is at. Everyone wants one and everyone thinks they need one. I honestly think that at some point they will stop mass producing these high performance cars (the big 3) and will start making more high performance version SUVs and pick ups.
Maybe some of you don't realize what all comes in the 6th gen Camaros. When I put my car in reverse, i can switch my rear view to make the entire mirror my back up camera on top of my radio showing me too. They have an option for coming with a LINE LOCK! Crazy!! 4 different modes for driving. I learned today that my first 2 days of owning mine, I had been driving in sport mode. I swapped to Track mode... just insane how the car changed. It's like the car had a mind of it's own and thought it was on a race track.
The cars got bigger because the cars are on a platform that is larger and part of that is due to all the things the car offers. Air bags and endless technology. My 2SS has a 10 speed auto with paddle shifters. If that had been offered back in the 80s, this would be your religion.
I loved my 4th gen. It was a Z/28 with the "sport appearance " package which was mistakenly referred to by "camaro fans" as the RS package. I loved the spoiler and ground effects that came with that package on my Z/28. The LS1 and 6 speed was an incredible duo and set the standard at that time across the board.
One thing I havent seen mentioned here in regards to GMs "downfall" with the Camaro. When you go to a Ford dealership and say you want to buy a Mustang, they will fight tooth and nail to get you in one. If you go to a Chevy dealership and try to buy a Camaro, the enthusiasm is not there. They dont praise the Camaro and will often times steer you in another direction (type of vehicle) Its been the overall culture of Chevrolet for decades and I dont know why. It happened to my wife and I've seen it when I sold cars years ago.
Competition among automakers have driven these 3 cars to where they are today and I like it. They're super fast, loaded with all sorts of goodies and are well rounded cars. Decades ago it was just about hp and a drag race. Now it's that plus the Nuremberg and gas mileage.
10... freaking... gears.... with paddle shifters!!!
The problem is not with performance or options here, The title of the thread says design so not sure how this got so far off topic.
I don't think anyone here is trying to compare the modern tech, well because as you stated there is no comparison ...and you are right the new ones are leaps and bounds above a 3rd gen on what you can get.. What we are talking about is styling, not muscle, well at least that is what I am looking at and when I look at the new Camaro I see a bulbous, heavy looking "tank" of a car. They are hard to see out of with the high doors and almost no rear window.It makes me feel claustrophobic inside. I drove a buddies "16 vert and the rear window looks like about 6" of view. BTW that mirror you speak of takes some getting used to and I personally did not like it at all. I will say that the front end on his 16 SS does look mean.
I kinda liked the 5th gen a little, but once they did the redesign, I think they went to far and probably will never own one myself!
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
I personally think the Zeta and Alpha Camaros are ugly. -I DO agree that they have certain angles where they look ok, but overall, bleh. I feel the opposite is true of the Mustang, although I don't care for the 2018 front end update they did. Obviously these are opinions, but I remember when the 4th gen came out, excitement was high. The Zeta and Alpha not so much. That has nothing to do with performance and tech of course. They certainly do shine in those departments. A 10 speed auto? Fast as it may be, how can you get excited about that? When I see a base model thirdgen, I KNOW it's painfully slow, but I still feel the lines are lightyears above what we have now. I also know that nowadays the entry level cars are made to look like the high end cars. This wasn't true back then. The market has changed for sure, and that's fine, but under 100k, there's not a lot of cars that I would actually want, from an automotive passion point of view. Maybe a Shelby GT350, or Corvette. Maybe a factory tuned German car. - Heck even the trucks are ugly.
The fourth gen cars weren't ugly I don't think, but neither were they overly good looking. Only 2 I'd own would be an LT1 SS or LS1 WS6. Still, they're just not my cup of tea.
Cell phones? Awww geez, no more laws. The law says we can't use 'em. I agree whole heatedly. Let's just enforce that law. a little better.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by Abubaca
I personally think the Zeta and Alpha Camaros are ugly. -I DO agree that they have certain angles where they look ok, but overall, bleh. I feel the opposite is true of the Mustang, although I don't care for the 2018 front end update they did. Obviously these are opinions, but I remember when the 4th gen came out, excitement was high. The Zeta and Alpha not so much. That has nothing to do with performance and tech of course. They certainly do shine in those departments. A 10 speed auto? Fast as it may be, how can you get excited about that? When I see a base model thirdgen, I KNOW it's painfully slow, but I still feel the lines are lightyears above what we have now. I also know that nowadays the entry level cars are made to look like the high end cars. This wasn't true back then. The market has changed for sure, and that's fine, but under 100k, there's not a lot of cars that I would actually want, from an automotive passion point of view. Maybe a Shelby GT350, or Corvette. Maybe a factory tuned German car. - Heck even the trucks are ugly.
The fourth gen cars weren't ugly I don't think, but neither were they overly good looking. Only 2 I'd own would be an LT1 SS or LS1 WS6. Still, they're just not my cup of tea.
Cell phones? Awww geez, no more laws. The law says we can't use 'em. I agree whole heatedly. Let's just enforce that law. a little better.
When the 5th gen Zeta came out, there was a lot of excitement. They were showing it at car shows for a long time, and it sold really well. Some of that was the pent-up demand since 2002.
The 6th gen Alpha didn't generate much excitement, although it's an amazing car. I think the problem at launch was that at a glance, it looked way too similar to the 5th gen. I think it's accurate to say that I'm a big Camaro fan and follow cars in general. But when I'd go to the lot, I had to look closely at first to identify 6th vs. 5th. They needed a clean sheet design. And of course, the high beltline, visibility, and trunk issues with the 5th gen not only were not addressed, they actually got worse.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
[QUOTE=Abubaca;6324229 I also know that nowadays the entry level cars are made to look like the high end cars. This wasn't true back then. The market has changed for sure, and that's fine,.[/QUOTE]
This is a great point Chris! Have you all seen the new Honda Civic?
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
I grew up during the muscle car era of the '60s. Since then, I've witnessed multiple massive shifts in the automotive market, probably the most significant of which was the era of the mid-'80s in which the Big Three began to fight their way out from under the performance-suffocating EPA pollution and gas mileage laws that killed high-performance cars and then begin to build cars with some semblance of performance once again. This era spawned the very vehicles which are the focus of this website, along with the 5.0 Mustang. Since that time, technology and greatly improved manufacturing practices have continued to improve all parameters of performance to a point where even a $20K econo-box today can provide some impressive handling/braking/acceleration.
Cars now touting 500/600/700, even 800 horsepower along with the suspension and brakes to go with it---right off the showroom floor---are readily available to anyone with good credit.
But therein lies the rub; there is far less interest in those-type cars these days than in even just a few years ago. As someone already stated ITT, sales of not only Camaro, but also Mustang and Challenger are declining; buyers are opting for SUVs and trucks, and that's what manufacturers are going to emphasize. They have no choice; basic economics states that you sell what people want to buy or else you are forced to fold your tent. Those of us who favor performance over all else are now among a very small minority, unfortunately.
There's a reason why GM currently has no plans to continue the Camaro carline after 2023. And while Ford and FCA haven't yet made any such 'official' declaration, those companies aren't run by knuckleheads; they know the market as well as GM does. EVs are the future darlings of the market, and all the manufacturers have stated that that is where their development emphasis will be.
Where all this is heading to should be obvious. Debates about which car has better styling/whatever notwithstanding, I fear that a few years from now, we'll all be looking back sadly---just as I did back in 1971.
Last edited by ironwill; Aug 16, 2019 at 08:42 AM.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by vinny R
The problem is not with performance or options here, The title of the thread says design so not sure how this got so far off topic.
I don't think anyone here is trying to compare the modern tech, well because as you stated there is no comparison ...and you are right the new ones are leaps and bounds above a 3rd gen on what you can get.. What we are talking about is styling, not muscle, well at least that is what I am looking at and when I look at the new Camaro I see a bulbous, heavy looking "tank" of a car. They are hard to see out of with the high doors and almost no rear window.It makes me feel claustrophobic inside. I drove a buddies "16 vert and the rear window looks like about 6" of view. BTW that mirror you speak of takes some getting used to and I personally did not like it at all. I will say that the front end on his 16 SS does look mean.
I kinda liked the 5th gen a little, but once they did the redesign, I think they went to far and probably will never own one myself!
The rear mirror turning into a camera screen I thought was a new option in 2019? Didnt take any time to get used too. Today is day 3 of owning my 2019
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by vinny R
Really! you post pics of real cars and then you post this! COME ON DUDE lets post some apples to apples jess!
I posted a picture of what a STOCK 3rd gen looked like. You posted a highly modified 3rd gen. Like most 3rd gen Camaros, they are highly modified. I wonder why?
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by Abubaca
I personally think the Zeta and Alpha Camaros are ugly. -I DO agree that they have certain angles where they look ok, but overall, bleh. I feel the opposite is true of the Mustang, although I don't care for the 2018 front end update they did. Obviously these are opinions, but I remember when the 4th gen came out, excitement was high. The Zeta and Alpha not so much. That has nothing to do with performance and tech of course. They certainly do shine in those departments. A 10 speed auto? Fast as it may be, how can you get excited about that? When I see a base model thirdgen, I KNOW it's painfully slow, but I still feel the lines are lightyears above what we have now. I also know that nowadays the entry level cars are made to look like the high end cars. This wasn't true back then. The market has changed for sure, and that's fine, but under 100k, there's not a lot of cars that I would actually want, from an automotive passion point of view. Maybe a Shelby GT350, or Corvette. Maybe a factory tuned German car. - Heck even the trucks are ugly.
The fourth gen cars weren't ugly I don't think, but neither were they overly good looking. Only 2 I'd own would be an LT1 SS or LS1 WS6. Still, they're just not my cup of tea.
Cell phones? Awww geez, no more laws. The law says we can't use 'em. I agree whole heatedly. Let's just enforce that law. a little better.
A 10 speed auto yes, you're asking how can someone get excited over that? How can you NOT? It has paddle shifters. I just used it to downshift when I came up to every light and stop sign on my way home this morning. Its essentially an automatic and manual transmission with the engineering to max performance and fuel economy
Last edited by blackgloves; Aug 16, 2019 at 08:57 AM.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by blackgloves
I posted a picture of what a STOCK 3rd gen looked like. You posted a highly modified 3rd gen. Like most 3rd gen Camaros, they are highly modified. I wonder why?
Didn't you post a picture of a plastic model from Revell? (That says "custom" '83 by the way.)
There's a whole lot of unmodified 3rd gen Camaros on this forum (and Firebirds like mine, 100% stock).
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by blackgloves
I posted a picture of what a STOCK 3rd gen looked like. You posted a highly modified 3rd gen. Like most 3rd gen Camaros, they are highly modified. I wonder why?
Just so this thread does not get clogged with photos of other cars and models, here are some pics of STOCK third gens, actual cars....Damn are these some awesome styled cars!
Last edited by vinny R; Aug 16, 2019 at 09:38 AM.
Reason: added info
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Someone in one of the past comments said that third-gens look like Ferrari’s next to the new cars and I do agree with that.. A mint condition Thirdgen has something exotic looking about it, especially compared to today’s cars.
I think car design today is just a little numb. Thirdgens stuck out back then and if you didn’t want to be driving some 80s boxy car with chrome trim, wire hubcaps and a protruding hood ornament.. You lusted after Thirdgens and Corvettes..
All cars now are sort of the same shape with different creases and lines and giant wheels to try and make them look sporty.. Trucks and SUVs probably stand out more especially the full-sized luxury models. I saw a silver 2017-2018 Camaro SS on a street with a Silver Honda Accord Sport behind it and analyzing the cars, neither stood out from one another..
You get more compliments from your friends on a brand new loaded Yukon Denali than a brand new Camaro SS these days. Back in the 80s you’d get way more compliments on your brand new IROC than on your full size Blazer.
Chevy has made the Corvette so it still stands out and the C8 has so much excitement around it when one shows up at a dealer there’s thousands of people trying to get pictures of it... The Corvette stands out among modern cars but the Camaro doesn’t even though they can compare performance-wise...
I can appreciate the new Camaros. I can’t see myself driving one though. I could see myself driving a C7 or C8.
I do agree with whoever above mentioned Ford making an effort to sell Mustangs. I think there is still excitement about Mustangs and I hear people talk about buying them but I’ve not really heard anyone at all talk about buying a new Camaro.
I do think the styling is a little off, the marketing effort in is non-existent, and there’s not much of a fan following for them...
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
A 10 speed auto yes, you're asking how can someone get excited over that? How can you NOT? It has paddle shifters. I just used it to downshift when I came up to every light and stop sign on my way home this morning. Its essentially an automatic and manual transmission
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by 88IROCvertZ
Someone in one of the past comments said that third-gens look like Ferrari’s next to the new cars and I do agree with that.. A mint condition Thirdgen has something exotic looking about it, especially compared to today’s cars.
I think car design today is just a little numb. Thirdgens stuck out back then and if you didn’t want to be driving some 80s boxy car with chrome trim, wire hubcaps and a protruding hood ornament.. You lusted after Thirdgens and Corvettes..
All cars now are sort of the same shape with different creases and lines and giant wheels to try and make them look sporty.. Trucks and SUVs probably stand out more especially the full-sized luxury models. I saw a silver 2017-2018 Camaro SS on a street with a Silver Honda Accord Sport behind it and analyzing the cars, neither stood out from one another..
You get more compliments from your friends on a brand new loaded Yukon Denali than a brand new Camaro SS these days. Back in the 80s you’d get way more compliments on your brand new IROC than on your full size Blazer.
Chevy has made the Corvette so it still stands out and the C8 has so much excitement around it when one shows up at a dealer there’s thousands of people trying to get pictures of it... The Corvette stands out among modern cars but the Camaro doesn’t even though they can compare performance-wise...
I can appreciate the new Camaros. I can’t see myself driving one though. I could see myself driving a C7 or C8.
I do agree with whoever above mentioned Ford making an effort to sell Mustangs. I think there is still excitement about Mustangs and I hear people talk about buying them but I’ve not really heard anyone at all talk about buying a new Camaro.
I do think the styling is a little off, the marketing effort in is non-existent, and there’s not much of a fan following for them...
They are impressive cars to drive, however...
I gotta disagree here. 5 weeks ago we bought a brand new 4 Runner and we have been noticing them on the road now. While looking we see tons of other SUVs. So many SUVs look similar to the point I have no idea what they are exactly. Every auto maker has 3-5 different SUVs inside their brand.
Talk about looking the same... the 3rd gen f- bodies back them were extremely similar. To the point that people outside of the f- body community call a 3rd gen Firebird, a Camaro and vice versa.
I know I'm fighting a losing battle here. This is a 3rd gen forum. I own one and have had two total. I unlike most here, dont think that the 3rd gen is one of the greatest cars of all time as so many of you have alluded to. My favorite Camaro design of all time is the 1970-1973.
A lot of you sound borderline, bitter towards new Camaros. Its weird how worked up yall get over a car you dont own or has no effect on your life.
Outside the 3rd gen community, our cars get made fun of more than any other generation of Camaro. If your first love was the 3rd gen, you're never going to like any other Camaro that comes along as much as your first love.
I'm not a fan of 3rd gens, I'm a fan of ALL generation Camaro's. My least favorite fbody of all time... the 3rd gen firebird. There are some that look good. Overall it though, it takes more for it to impress me than any other generation. As in it has to be a certain color(s), year model(s), certain options(s)
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by blackgloves
I gotta disagree here. 5 weeks ago we bought a brand new 4 Runner and we have been noticing them on the road now. While looking we see tons of other SUVs. So many SUVs look similar to the point I have no idea what they are exactly. Every auto maker has 3-5 different SUVs inside their brand.
Talk about looking the same... the 3rd gen f- bodies back them were extremely similar. To the point that people outside of the f- body community call a 3rd gen Firebird, a Camaro and vice versa.
I know I'm fighting a losing battle here. This is a 3rd gen forum. I own one and have had two total. I unlike most here, dont think that the 3rd gen is one of the greatest cars of all time as so many of you have alluded to. My favorite Camaro design of all time is the 1970-1973.
A lot of you sound borderline, bitter towards new Camaros. Its weird how worked up yall get over a car you dont own or has no effect on your life.
Outside the 3rd gen community, our cars get made fun of more than any other generation of Camaro. If your first love was the 3rd gen, you're never going to like any other Camaro that comes along as much as your first love.
I'm not a fan of 3rd gens, I'm a fan of ALL generation Camaro's. My least favorite fbody of all time... the 3rd gen firebird. There are some that look good. Overall it though, it takes more for it to impress me than any other generation. As in it has to be a certain color(s), year model(s), certain options(s)
Flame away...
I've been a fan of these cars since they came out in 1981. I don't think in all that time that I've ever heard anyone confuse a Camaro with a Firebird. Anyone who did would likely confuse any two cars.
You're confusing "best" or "greatest" car with "favorite" car. I don't think that many people here think that it's the best car ever, certainly not when there's been nearly 40 years of technological improvements since they launched. My ATS Coupe is a better car in every way. But for many of us, they're our favorite car.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Happened to me last week at the gas station.
My own wife asked if it was a Corvette.
And she looked at my Corvette and asked, so what's that?
People who confuse Camaros with Firebirds, and certainly Camaros with Corvettes, aren't car people. They'll confuse anything.
People who care about cars at all won't make that mistake. I don't give a damn about Hyundais, Toyotas, and Hondas, but I can identify any of them at a glance.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Uh huh...... You know I've got a Firebird. It's not a Camaro.
I think I would know that if I actually saw it.
I heard people say "what the difference?" when discussing the two. Not that they look the same, but because they were the same under the skin. But to me there was a huge difference. For third gens, until 1991, I was strictly a Firebird guy and would never have considered a Camaro. Not that I didn't like the Camaro, but I just thought the Firebird was nicer inside and out. 1991-92 was another story. That "Banshee" nose just looked grafted on to the Firebird and never looked quite right to me.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
A auto with a paddle shift is like a hybrid auto/manual
Keep face palming though
Seriously, you are the first person I've ever met that prefers an auto to a manual for the "fun" factor. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around it.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Oh, the new auto transmissions are great! I would never buy a stick shift in a new car, even if it was offered. But I'd just leave it in drive because a good transmission is damn near psychic.
Even an old car with a really good torque converter is a blast to race.... I mean drive.
I have a friend with a new Hellcat Jeep thingy, and everybody that takes a ride can't stop talking about how cool it sounds when the transmission shifts at full throttle.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Oh, the new auto transmissions are great! I would never buy a stick shift in a new car, even if it was offered. But I'd just leave it in drive because a good transmission is damn near psychic.
Even an old car with a really good torque converter is a blast to race.... I mean drive.
I have a friend with a new Hellcat Jeep thingy, and everybody that takes a ride can't stop talking about how cool it sounds when the transmission shifts at full throttle.
Meh.. I’ll take the ZF 6-speed in my vette over paddles... But I’d buy a paddle shift auto if I had the garage space..
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Also the argument where he said people confuse 3rd gen Camaros and Firebirds... I guess you didn’t read my post... I meant “3RD GENS” stood out in the EIGHTIES.... Firebirds and Camaros shared the same platform so they should get confused...
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by 88IROCvertZ
Also the argument where he said people confuse 3rd gen Camaros and Firebirds... I guess you didn’t read my post... I meant “3RD GENS” stood out in the EIGHTIES.... Firebirds and Camaros shared the same platform so they should get confused...
Carry on...
Yes, I knew exactly what you meant. This doesnt change the fact that two of the then, big three (camaro, firebird, mustang) looked almost identical to the population.
Makes it silly to complain about the big three looking similar. Which I dont necessarily agree with because the challenger looks nothing like the mustang. The camaro has some similarity to the challenger and some to the mustang. But so did 1st gen Camaro/mustang. People probably didnt complain back then.
Now a days, since the beginning of car forums, I've seen a never ending story of complaints about the Camaro. I don't venture to the mustang forums but I'm gonna guess there's far less complaining. To be fair, the cars are similar in price, performance, and everything in between. But, it's like its embedded into the Camaro culture. Love the one you own and hate everything created after.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by Abubaca
Seriously, you are the first person I've ever met that prefers an auto to a manual for the "fun" factor. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around it.
It was brought over from the racing circuit. If the people you know arent enjoying it, they arent doing it right. feels like I'm driving a huge toy
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by blackgloves
Yes, I knew exactly what you meant. This doesnt change the fact that two of the then, big three (camaro, firebird, mustang) looked almost identical to the population.
Makes it silly to complain about the big three looking similar. Which I dont necessarily agree with because the challenger looks nothing like the mustang. The camaro has some similarity to the challenger and some to the mustang. But so did 1st gen Camaro/mustang. People probably didnt complain back then.
Now a days, since the beginning of car forums, I've seen a never ending story of complaints about the Camaro. I don't venture to the mustang forums but I'm gonna guess there's far less complaining. To be fair, the cars are similar in price, performance, and everything in between. But, it's like its embedded into the Camaro culture. Love the one you own and hate everything created after.
Bravo
Something still seems amiss in translation...
The Camaro, Firebird and Corvette really stood out amongst 80s cars like Honda’s, Buick Skylarks, Toyota Corollas, etc...
Nowadays every car has sporty angles and 19”-20” wheels... The new Camaro doesn’t stand out...
The C7 and C8 DO stand out.. Mustang still has a loyal following (which we do agree on)
also the Fox Mustangs didn’t stand out as much... they looked like 80s economy cars in and out... not sporty, not muscular, cheaply built, etc... They got a following for the LX 5.0 being light and easy and cheap to modify turning low 1/4 mile times..
Thirdgens stood out stylistically in the 80s.
6th gens don’t stand out now.
I’d even argue Grand Nationals didn’t really stand out stylistically except for their mystique and performance... The thirdgens were some of the best styling in the decade and that’s coming from an artistic look at the car... If you look at JUST THE 80s they are pretty damn cool...
That’s not to say they are BETTER than 6th gens, but relative to
other cars at the time they stood out more and definitely sold better..
I like all Camaros... 1st gen Camaros were my first Love... 2nd gen Firebirds were my second love. The IROC Z blew my 10 year old mind... That car brand new looked like a damn Ferrari compared to the 80s cars people were driving..
When people were driving around cars that looked like this:
This car came out:
If anything I don’t want to see the Camaro go away... The 80s IROC Z’s were in high demand... The new Camaro SS is not...
I understand the segment is small, but it would just take someone that gives a crap to revitalize the name
They should care about the name as much as the Corvette.. There’s a lot of history at stake including Third Gens so hows that for caring about all Camaros!
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
Originally Posted by 88IROCvertZ
Something still seems amiss in translation...
The Camaro, Firebird and Corvette really stood out amongst 80s cars like Honda’s, Buick Skylarks, Toyota Corollas, etc...
Nowadays every car has sporty angles and 19”-20” wheels... The new Camaro doesn’t stand out...
The C7 and C8 DO stand out.. Mustang still has a loyal following (which we do agree on)
also the Fox Mustangs didn’t stand out as much... they looked like 80s economy cars in and out... not sporty, not muscular, cheaply built, etc... They got a following for the LX 5.0 being light and easy and cheap to modify turning low 1/4 mile times..
Thirdgens stood out stylistically in the 80s.
6th gens don’t stand out now.
I’d even argue Grand Nationals didn’t really stand out stylistically except for their mystique and performance... The thirdgens were some of the best styling in the decade and that’s coming from an artistic look at the car... If you look at JUST THE 80s they are pretty damn cool...
That’s not to say they are BETTER than 6th gens, but relative to
other cars at the time they stood out more and definitely sold better..
I like all Camaros... 1st gen Camaros were my first Love... 2nd gen Firebirds were my second love. The IROC Z blew my 10 year old mind... That car brand new looked like a damn Ferrari compared to the 80s cars people were driving..
When people were driving around cars that looked like this:
This car came out:
If anything I don’t want to see the Camaro go away... The 80s IROC Z’s were in high demand... The new Camaro SS is not...
I understand the segment is small, but it would just take someone that gives a crap to revitalize the name
They should care about the name as much as the Corvette.. There’s a lot of history at stake including Third Gens so hows that for caring about all Camaros!
It's going to take a lot more than someone giving a crap about the Camaro name. As I mentioned earlier, all three of the big three have declining sales. It has nothing to do with styling and everything to do with fuel prices, and the economy. Someone else mentioned this, but so many cars now make power. You dont have to spend 35k on a high performance car to feel power and to get some decent handling. My dad drives a 2018 Malibu LTZ. It would smoke a bone stock 3rd gen. My point... everything feels powerful now. Even half of the SUVs feel fast.
Almost all of the talking points I've seen about the 6th Gen in this thread are full of holes. "Huge car" "big ghetto wheels" "no styling"
So the 6th gen is huge? Imagine it with 14-16 inch wheels like the 3rd gen's had. These "huge" 20in wheels fit nicely and look good on the car. Go look at the wheel thread for 3rd gens and see how many of these guys are wearing Corvette and 5th or 6th gen camaro wheels on a 3rd gen. Upgrading a 15in wheel to a 17.. 18, 20 inch wheel on a car that's much smaller than a 6th gen?
I've been looking on the internet, trying to come up with ideas to make my 6th gen look personalized, "upgrade" I'm struggling. My tail lights are clear with a black background. Perfect. My headlights, no need to touch them either. I'm probably going to spray my wheels with some type of plastic dip. They're plenty wide, tall, very easy to clean and I like the design. That's one thing I've never been able to say about any Camaro I've owned. They have raised the bar with styling in my opinion. The hood has FUNCTIONAL ducts/vents. I have cooling vents for my front tires. My freaking front bowtie is hollowed out for more cooling to the engine. It has carbon fiber pieces in the grille. The front of the car has more lines and design than my 3rd, for sure my 4th.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
we understand the third gen is NOT the greatest car of all time BUT at the time IT WAS REVOLUTIONARY
and it still looks unique,iconic and can be made to perform and handle similarly to more modern cars when
they are approached in the right way.this is the argument,the 5th-6th gen zeta/suv platform has given us a
mundane,slab sided monstrosity that weighs too much and doesn't compete with the mustang and challenger
aesthetically.it absolutely kicks *** from a performance standpoint and on this most of us agree.
the difference is very apparent,just look. sleek and sexy vs cross over box.
Re: Anyone else feel that after the third gen design the Camaro & Firebird went downh
One other thing, we all know that these are ALL opinions. I think we should all be thankful we are living in this time where at the drop of the dime, or 10K dimes you can buy performance from the factory.This thread started with opinions on how design has changed through the years not the performance which IS the plus nowadays.Designs will change with the years, it is a fact, but some will remain timeless and some well just will remain. You yourself in your post said it is like driving a "huge Toy" your words. So they have the perception in design to look this way. If you look at the grill of EVERY GM product it is the same with a slight variation.To me this is bad, does nothing to separate one model from the next. It is cost savings not design. This makes them all look the same down to the new Blazer. IMHO this is what makes new car design "cookie cutter" The 85 Camaro shared nothing with the 85 Malibu. Well now they do and I am sure it is more than just the grille. I won't bash the design of the new Camaro as it is styled for the times, I just won't own one and I feel just the same where if you can't respect the design of the third gen then you should do the same, period.
On the flip side the performance aspect is killing hotr odding as we know it. Sure there are a ton of boltons for new cars but those are just that. No skill or knowledge needed. You can now get up to 1k HP from your wallet. From what I have seen and read of Qwik's car he is right that you would not know what the hell just blew your doors off that new pricey Camaro, and afterwards if he pops his hood most wouldn't even know what went into that beast. Qwik's car would not be for everyone, it was not intended to be.
Factory performance and cookie cutter design is MHO on why car sales are down, as the others have said performance, design and interior are all the same from model to model down to the SUV's and compacts so really it does not maker on the model. This was not the case in the 80's.
When I see a base model thirdgen, I KNOW it's painfully slow, but I still feel the lines are lightyears above what we have now. I also know that nowadays the entry level cars are made to look like the high end cars. This wasn't true back then. The market has changed for sure, and that's fine, but under 100k, there's not a lot of cars that I would actually want, from an automotive passion point of view. Maybe a Shelby GT350, or Corvette. Maybe a factory tuned German car. - Heck even the trucks are ugly.
