Hey all,
Some of you know me, some don't. I have been in the autobody business approx. 20 years, I started as many do, my brother was in the business, and I had to help him paint my first car, as well as at his work from time to time. I really didn't choose it as a profession, I kind of stumbled into it...
Years went by, things happen, I moved into a dealership opportunity, spraying, and one thing leads to another...
Now manager for an almost million-dollar a year business, I see many things that are trials as well as a few rewards. My customer base is important to me personally, as well as from a business standpoint, and my customer service skills are unmatched.
Many of the posts on the boards are negative to shops in general, dealerships especially. Here is something we've been working on the past two weeks:
An 84 Aero came in a couple weeks ago... Blasted in the right quarter and rear cover/hatch.
Nice car, Really close to mine was originally, but a stick and no power.
After two weeks of exhausting every search and possible solution: my parts department has run out of options.
No oem quarter, no oem rear ground effects, retainers are out, inner wheelhouses gone. Year One is a no go, even though their website advertises. buy oemparts .com same issue. Gm parts direct... nada. Classic industries has a quarter skin only, no application for ground effects beyond 85.
I'm sure we'll get everything...But keep in mind, for all those that are out there gripin' and bitchin' about "SHOP A, or DEALERSHIP B
took too goddamn long on my car!!!" How can we give customer service when this is what we are faced with?

 

I dont think that people bitch about it taking so long, it's when it takes so long and the shop doesnt tell them why -- as they face the problems, not after they finish the car or never.

 

Yes, i work at a body shop and rare parts are a bitch, sometimes we make them in house, like 1/4 and whatnot, out of metal, its a lot of work, but what are you gonna do...junkyards dont make parts for 1950's gullwing benzes

 

Im glad your run a good shop.. but there are many that dont run good shops. Last time I went in for paint every single piece I had painted either had fish eyes or what looked like thrown paint from the gun. They didn't seem to care.. but I sure as hell did

 

I do know that there are a lot of **** poor shops out there, still doing the things that give us all a bad name. ...I guess it's like everything else, if you do your homework, you're ok.
still looking for those parts, Had some luck with GM Parts direct.
If I get the owner's permission, I'll post pics, before and after.

P.S.
thanks to 88txiroc. for re-opening this post. Don't know why it got locked in the first place...

 

i hate the body shops for ripping us off...come on 5,000 for a paint job

i dont know about where you live but here they charge you an arm and a leg an hour look professional but than turn around pay improperly certified or not so good painter and bodyworkers to do the job and only pay them 13 an hr and charge you 85.

 

Have you ever actually sat down and thought about the amount of hours it takes to do a good quality job? Sure you can scuff and squirt a car real quick and cheap but when you get into changing the color and doing jambs the amount of labor involved in pulling stuff to do it properly adds up quick. Then after the paint is sprayed out you have wetsand and buff time to give it a mirror finish. Then, reassembly, which can take a day or two in and of itself. Not to mention the cost of materials nowadays. To do a car with top quality PPG product all the way you'll spend over a thousand in paint, prime, and sandpaper, at garage costs!! Trust me, I know all this, I run my own shop and lose work to the holes in the wall that everyone complains about everyday. A quality shop can't afford to take the time they do for a perfect job and charge a competitive price with the Macco's of the world. They'd lose their shirt trying, trust me, I know this from experience. Hell, one case in point, I painted my partners 83 Z mercedes silver with bright red and silver intertwining flames. I have about 25 hours into just wetsanding and buffing that car because of the time it took to block sand the clearcoat smooth. Average for any full paint job I usually spend between 10 to 15 hours wetsanding and buffing. Just take the amount of time I said to wetsand and buff, times say, $50 an hour to be nice (bear in mind, the shop has bills that need to be paid to keep the doors open aside from just the guy who's working on the car, rent, electric, insurance, etc...), now, add in what I said quality materials cost, and, figure another two weeks worth of buisness days for one guy to remove the trim, repair whatever is necessary, remove interior parts to properly jamb, prep and paint, wetsand and buff, then reinstall everything and suddenly, that $5,000 paint job sounds about right for a quality job now doesn't it

 

im not talking a color change, or anything crazy i am talking keeping the facory color but getting a full clear job. im talking about a standard repaint...on something like that you usually dont have to paint the door jambs, ok so you have to remove the tail lights all the weather stripping on a t top car and a few emblems i hardly doubt though 6,000 is fair for a descent paint job that looks like factory...

ok as far as color changing yea i believe it if its gonna be done right....for 10K come on your stipping a car motor, brake system, interior but i say stay with factory its not worth it...for a stupid color unles of course its hot pink

 

Paying alot for a paintjob is fine but I haven't seen many people that can justify the $50 an hour charge. Especially when it comes to wetsanding and buffing, etc. Its not rocket science.

 

You're kidding right? $50 per hour is CHEAP for a bodyshop to charge. Sure the guy sanding isn't paid all that or even the owner. There is so much overhead that goes along with operating a business it would make your head spin and poof, that $50 an hour isn't quite enough.

Now, some shadetree body man operating from his garage is a totally different story.........

 

I too have been in the body shop business for a number of years, and have born witness to much of what is being stated in this thread. At my shop, an all over paint job starts at $3500 and goes up from there with jambs, underhood, interior, and body work. The thing that a lot of people don't understand is that the vast majority of shops out there are what you might consider "production" body shops. In a production body shop, sometimes there are little blemishes in the paint. Sometimes a door gap might be slightly off from one side of the vehicle to the other. These are things that 90% of our customer base doesn't care about because in a production body shop, you are mostly dealing with a clientelle that considers their vehicles as appliances.
The bottom line: If you are expecting show quality shine and fitment, make it clear to the shop up front. If you want show quality paint and body work, be prepared to pay for it. The guys that are capable of doing that level of work don't do it for nothing. If you are expecting show quality paint and body work, be prepared to wait. Patience is key when asking a shop to bring your car back to all of it's glory. Ask the shop to give you updates, and ask if you can stop in from time to time to check the progress. If you do, once or twice a week for about 10-15 minutes each is plenty . Do your homework!!! You'll be glad you did, and a little more money up front for a quality job will save you in the long run compared to mediocre work that will need to be redone in a few years.

 

See... this kind of statement AMAZES ME!!!
9 times outta 10 the guy that makes this statement will go into a speed shop and blow six grand on an engine... then another two on driveline components," but that's OK cause it's worth it..."
It's been that way for years.
Why is it that what WE do for a living is not worth it??
I have had to take as many classes as most of the mechs. Our area of expertise is Just as technical... just as specialied. We're not just here to make things "look pretty"
The days of throwin' panels on are over, we have to know how the vehicle took a hit, the incidental damages it can cause, where the crush zones can take it and where they can't, how to re-install new frame rails to factory specs. Don't even get me started on repairing frames...
Do you want to trust your car to someone who knows a guy that will do it out of his garage for half the cost?
Now granted, we're mostly talkin' about paintjobs on this forum, but that's technical now as well, I've said it before, Ask the people like JeffW if they'll "Throw some paint on" for you. for less than what a shop would charge.

 

lol no flame intended i just feel its i young guy like me cant afford a quality paint job... that is why i am taking body shop classes next

i got tired of paying people to fix my car and upgrade it so ive been doing it my self... now its time to learn to paint and repair dammage.

 

$5,000 is a daily driver paint job at some places in my area.

it isn't uncommon to pay upwards of 7-8,000 just in paint for award winning. then you have another 3-4,000 in body for that perfectly straight, smooth car.

or you can go to macco(just an easy example of a less expensive shop) where they might just tape up your windows, lightly sand and spray away.

you get what you pay for but you can also get ripped off. i've seen guys pay $5,000 for paint when they could have done better themselves in a garage. it's all in the body/prep work as to how good your paint turns out but the painter has to be good as well.

it can be discouraging to younger people when nicer things cost so much but there are reasons behind it. not to mention a young kid in or just out of highschool doesn't need a car with that nice of paint.


to stay on subject, many people get upset with shops/dealerships because they don't tell the truth.... the bottom line. if any of you work at a shop that does then you shouldn't feel bad when a instance like above happens. there are good shops out there, just way to hard to find.

 

and i defend macoo haha good paint job if you prep your self...thats what i plan to do only go to earl scheib and get their pearl escent job...and sure a 19yo needs a nice car...not like i have a home to show off :lala: oh well ill soon to find out ima take some body work and painting classes at my college.

 

WOW, in not even gonna get into this any further, then saying some people cant see past their own nose.

 

Not a good way to go.

I know a man, yep I sure do. He does damn good paint work, yep I've seen it.
So a year ago I rolled my F-150. Local body shop said 5 grand just to get it back to the condition it was in.
I decided to track down this man I know, He told me 2 grand and he'll do it in his garage.
A year later he still has my truck. No bed on it, no rust repaired, The cab has been swapped, & so has the front clip.
The cab swap & front clip were done by me.

I'm getting ready to go get the truck & make her into a flatbed since my Camaro is now taking the preference.

Sure a young guy can afford it. Just save more money and forget about the keg parties for awhile.

Don't defend earl shieb or maaco.
They do $200.00 worth of work for your $500.00. You will get a simple sanding with a single stage enamel that will be fading soon. Sometimes withing just a few months.

A daily driver/work commuter I would say go ahead. But if it is your pride & joy spend the damn money.

Take those classes, you'll soon learn the differences between quantity & quality when it comes to body work. & why not to use Maaco.

 

read this thread

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=264088

earl scheib job

 

I work at a body shop and we have a 91 vert comming in and the owners want a complete color change on it from white to a Pearl Blue. Anyways I already told the owner of the shop that I would do it for 2 reasons 1. I already know that nobody eles I the shop will do it. 2. Because I have a love for Camaro's.

The reason no in the shop will do it is because when the owner of the shop wrote the estimate we were slow so we needed to get work in the door so he bid it cheap. Like about $3500, and i already saw the estimate and it came out to about a 35 to 45 hour job. And on a complete color change when you have to strip the car down and paint a buch of parts seperate from the car, to me its not enough money to do it. And the car is fairly strait no rust or anything like that.

And just because I want to prove a that not all body shops are bad or are out to screw you let me show you how much money I will make on this job. I am on commission and I get paid $18 per commission hour. So take this job for instance all i get paid for is 45 hours even if I have 75 of actual man hours into it all I will get paid is $820 and that is before tax. And yes I know what you are going to say "Then why charge the extra $3600?" Ok you have your material cost witch is very expensive, we offer a lifetime warranty on everything we paint, as im sure most shops do, so if the product fails then we fix it no charge to the customer.

And it also has been stated in this thread that shops have overhead, I know another shop owner in the town that i live in and it costs him $1000 a day to just open the doors at his shop. And his shop as the same with ours, are not nearly as big as most of the shops in alot of the big city's.

Now im just starting to ramble on so ill stop here but to anyone who reads this all im tryinng to get accross is that not all shops are bad, there are alot of good honest shops out there that do good work. And to anyone who has gotten screwed by some of these bad representations of body shops I am sorry that it happened to you.

Here is the link to the web site of the body shop that I work at, but it is a kinda new site so sum parts of it may be under construction still: http://www.rennerautobody.com/


HotRod55

Oh yeah if any of the other Body Shop Owners, managers or Techs that are on this board have a web site post a link cause I think it would be interesting to see some other shops out there!

 

my (former) friend wrecked the front part of my dad's new car, by taking it into a retaining wall, the body shop at the dealership wanted 6725 to replace the front bumper, right and left front quarter panels, front wheel wells and new left tire, front grille, and front bumper + allignment. It's being fixed right now.
Is this a fair price to pay for that work?

 

it's 02 Durango 4.7 Liter

 

That paragraph should be a sticky. Everytime there's a post about Maaco, you get 50 people replying that Maaco is crap and you should spend the $4K on a real paintjob. What people don't realize is that many of the cars on this board are driven everyday in all kinds of weather and parked outside in parking lots where they'll eventually get dinged anyway. Plus, we're talking about Thirdgens, not new BMW's. Spending $4K for paint for a $2K daily driver is a complete waste of money.

That being said, for my purposes Maaco won't do. I'm going to have nice paint (hopefully by spring). But mine's not a daily driver either.

 

I think it all boils down to purpose you have when painting your car. Maaco and Schieb do good in painting ex-squad cars with glitter paint, and do even better when it comes to taping off windows/jambs/trim. You can get a decent "driver" paint job for a fair price at a regular shop, but look at doing prep work yourself (but you will probably not get warranty due to your body work). Have a real painter spray your car, its worth the little extra you spend (the extra is also getting you better quality paint product too).

It boils down to the all-mighty $, you want to play then you got to pay. A body craftsman is not cheap, neither is the work he does. When you are paying that premo dollar, you are paying for his skill and knowledge, not necessarly the work he does on your car. If you had his abilities, you would be painting your own car and charging other people his rates.

As for finding a good shop/bodyman, you can get a good feel of what shops can do a good quality paint job. Go to a local car show (not a cruise in). By car show I mean one that awards trophies and has more that 50 cars, that is what brings out the great show cars. Talk with the guys that have the great flawless looking cars, and find out where they had the work done. Most of those car guys out there are more than happy to talk about their car to someone who shows interest. This will give you good examples of work that various shops can do (also ask who did the work at that shop,the shop may have one guy that is show car wizard).

 

L98Driver I would say that the price is about right for that vehicle because on most Dodge SUV's or pickups the book time to replace a front fender (front Quarter Panel) is about 5 to 7 hours to just replace it that doesn't include paint time.

 

n/m this is tech forum not my opinion thx

\/ for making that apparent.

 

This thread is rediculous. You get what you pay for, that is true. But Bodyshop guys dont have to whine b/c people are pissed about having to pay a lot. This is a tech forum. No place to "blow off some steam." A post like this is just asking for people to battle back and forth about something that really helps no one in the end. Lock this thread please

 

you do get what you pay for when you find a good shop, all you really need to do is search around and talk to people. i found a small shop near my work that i stoped at more than 10 times just looking at the cars being worked on, every time the owner was willing to let me look around and answerd any questions i had.
i soon came to find the kinda magic this guy worked, a true old school craftsmen that takes pride in his work!

paint is a big part of the car, normaly the first thing noticed. if your going to bother doing it why not do it well?

 

I think you had better go back and re-read my original post... It's about the problems found on our side of the fence...
No one said anything about people not paying enough, sure it's evolved into a debate about what some people percieve as value...but that's what these forums do, help evolve one thought and possibly branch out, and help others see another point of view, or perhaps another way of doing things. I skimmed all of the posts again and found no one "blowing off steam" many valid pionts are made, and somepeople possibly look at shops, and the normal day to day strife we go through, in a different manner.
I'm still waiting on this poor customer's parts. That is the ridiculous part, if any, in this whole discussion!!! My observation was about the difficulty and people's perception of how long it "should" take to do a job on a thirdgen... perfectly relevant to this forum and these boards, sorry if you disapprove.

 

Pardon me being slightly off topic, but I live in Denver and can't seem to find a 'good' paint shop. I've been shopping around for a shop to repaint my IROC (complete color change) for over a year.

I've gone to some of these custom shops and when I ask to see some of their finished vehicles I'm astounded at the poor quality. These guys aren't cheap either, one quoted $165/hr and the other $185/hr;

If anyone can recommend someone who will do a good quality paint job in Denver, let me know.