i jut wanted to confirm that its imposible or at least virtually impossible to perfectly align the hatch glass onto these cars

right ?

before i urethane my hatch deck to my glass tomorrow

currently it is all cleaned of the old urethane and awaiting install but first i wanted to recieve any tips ideas suggestions confirmations and etc regarding alignment

it seems like the curve of the glass doesnt matcht he curve of the body on the passenger side

i dont understand it and cant find a way to correct it, its almost like the passenger side of the glass needs to be raised up, but you cant do that because then the weatherstripping wont seal to the glass,

so..

hum

crazy.,

does anyone on here have a perfectly aligned hatch glass(not talking about the spoiler deck plate alignment)


and i tell you what but whatever engineer decided to use this style of bolts to hold the deck to the glass needs shot because the damn things sometimes break loose and then you cant remove the damn nuts and it pisses you off because you either have to cut them off with a blade or torch the nuts off or beat the hell out of them and use a flat prybar and cuss alot

thats BS

two of them did this to me
but im a perfectionist usualyl, and ill normally do what it takes to accomplish what i want to accomplish

too bad thats only the case for vehicle related stuff, normally

hum

such is life i suppose.



thanks

 

According to the GTA source page the Thirdgen is actually built about 1/2" off. So I think that means it can't be perfectly aligned.

"While going over some of the plans for the decklid, one of the people from Auto-Fab said offhandedly to some of the GM people in attendance that they didn't understand the fit problems that were in evidence as A-F had built the decklid "to print" (GM spec). At that time, one of the GM brass piped up and said that was most likely the problem.... since the 3rdGen F-cars were "1/2 inch out in the RH rear corner".

http://www.gtasourcepage.com/newdevelopment.html

 

wow..
thats pretty wild


learn something new every day


usually

thanks!

 

Is it possible to bolt up the glass, get the rear portion lined up, THEN silicone (whatever they use) them together? Seems there outta be a way to line them up correctly, before applying the adhesive that bonds them.

 

well the urethane will be slick enough to slide th deck around to where it needs to be
it sets up fast, but not THAt fast :P


i gotta do this tomorrow i already bought the fast set urethane in a tube today from the glass shop

im ready to go for it, but not today

Stephen it looks like i have some PM's from ya to read and reply to , lol

:P

 

Good luck with it Interesting things you learn about the small imperfections which make 3rd gens perfect

 

1/2" is a pretty significant imperfection to me, especialyl when it comes to a body part alignment

heh

crazy stuff,

i should probably pull the two studs that broke loose in the deck plate before i install it, hmmm
that should be the first thing i do tomorrow

and if im lucky i can figure out a way to get two bolts of some kind in the holes and mig tack weld them in
maybe.,

if im so lucky


actually i could probably weld washers over the holes or in the holes and then weld cut off bolts/studs onto those

or actually maybe i could just pull the studs up and hold them in place and get some tacks around them in there possibly, hum.


hmmmmm....

 

I hope i word this so u can understand what i'm saying... U can rise the side up some. U can get so shims put them under the hinge. Inbetween the hinge and the metal.. Like you were thinking. You said u could rise the glass up but would not seal.. What you can do is take a hammer and tap up were the weather strip goes. This will make the seal tighter.

One more thing go back to that glass shop and get a bottle of primer for urethane. (not reg primmer)If u do not use it it will leak. Trust me been there done that.

O yeah they are pretty much imposible to get perfect. Thats what makesit a 3rd gen.

 

ok thanks good info

im not gonna try shimming the hinge ot raise the glass on this side if its never going ot be perfect

not really a point to it IMHO

the tube of urethane says it is primerless, the primer is incorporated into the urethane


it is DOW primerless quick cure urethane adhesive U-418 HV

60-80 degrees

http://automotive.dow.com/automotive...ts/U-418HV.htm

thanks

 

done, that was pretty easy actually

the only thing that went wrong was one of the two studs i had to tack weld in place on the deck broke loose on me,

but oh well
now i have a grid hatch glass the way it came from factory, and my t/a deck and spoiler back on the car again

i learned that you have no choice on where the deck is located on the glass due to the glass frame ends not being able to be moved, the two screw holes in them have to lines up with the holes in the deck plate, theres no choice in how the plate can be positioned
but its lined up virtually perfectly on the car with it shut, so thats good

 

Sounds like the only way it could be changed, would be to drill new mountings, or enlarge the existing ones.

 

yeah, but that would be kinda crazy imho

ive never run across any that were re drilled,

so i assume it never needs to be done

unless something bad is wrong, lol

:P

 

I need to go take pics of how my hatcg is misaligned. I wonder if there is any adjustment available, because it doesn't seem to match with the descriptions of the normal misalignment. Be right back...if my batteries are good.

 

ppl wont re-drill holes because they cant drill through glass. only thing you can do is get some of those dremmel tools and grind the holes bigger. if you use a dremmel, make sure the tool is made of "silicon carbide", cuz nothing else will work. and when you do it, wear a dust mask because those glass shavings can cut up your insides.

 

no no im not talking about the glass holes lol

i mean the little sheetmetal screw holes that hold the glass frame ends to the deck underneath


hahahaaa :d

i am amused
ive got this one aligned better than ive ever seen any in the past lined up


in pic i posted of the entire rear of the car it looks like its real close to the QP skinon the RH side but its actually not, it actually exact same gap over there as on the LH side, the camera angle makes it look like its messed up lol

the deck doesnt hang past the end of the QP's either, it stops right at them, the way it should be

never seen oen of these cars where it wasnt crooked bad and where at least one end of the deck wasnt hanging past the end of one of the QP's

so im very happy with the results on this, it turned out bvetter than expected, for sure

i have alot of work to do on this car yet still, sanding, smoothing, a QP replacement, paint, and so on, but first i have to get this engine in, and deal with exhaust and find a deeper ratio axle, and go from there,

 

Well, I didn't wanna drink that class of Coke anyways. I grabbed my camera, which turned out the USB cable was still attached, and running behind the glass, which ended up on the floor!

Anyways...My passenger side fits better than me driver's ride, which is out by almso 1/2"!

BTW, in the 3rd pic, it just looks like the pic is just cut of. That's the white of my hood, blending with the screen! LOL

 

My passenger side fits better...Same white thing in the 2nd pic.

 

Stephen my trunk looks exactly like yours did in these pics, huge gap on top, did you ever fix this?

 

stephen loosen the upper bolts and you can push the hatch upward to get it to line up..over time the struts force the hatch back like it has done on your car....you think your hatch is bad you should see mine...my car was in a wreck lol its real bad ill go take some pics and post to show yall...this is after i aligned it to the best i can without doing body work and getting parts

 

ok i just took these pics...i need to attempt to adjust the hatch again...but only way i will get it looking as good as Randy's is if i do some body work which i need to do it possibly needs a new RH quarter panel...







heres one i took to paint an drew a line to show you where it was when i bought the car....wish i had a picture to show you...it was crazy how off it was...Randy you are very lucky to have such a nice straight hatch and car

 

I haven't messed with my hatch at all.

You'd think mine was a Notchback....

"Another GTA project Lou was very familiar with was the ill-fated GTA Notchback project, finally produced for 1988. Taken on by Auto-Fab, Inc. (AFI) of Auburn Hills, MI,.... the project got off to a slow, languishing start. Apparently, AFI built the first two "prototype" decklids and then flew the parts out to the F-Car plant in Van Nuys, CA. Upon arriving and trying to fit the parts to the GTAs on the assembly line, the fit was noticeably off. GM very quickly ordered AFI to produce a second round of parts; the second time was not a charm, either as the second attempt at fitment was no better than the first.

While going over some of the plans for the decklid, one of the people from Auto-Fab said offhandedly to some of the GM people in attendance that they didn't understand the fit problems that were in evidence as A-F had built the decklid "to print" (GM spec). At that time, one of the GM brass piped up and said that was most likely the problem.... since the 3rdGen F-cars were "1/2 inch out in the RH rear corner".

So any time you look at a 3rdGen F-car and notice that the rear panel overlaps the taillamps just a bit.... now you know why.

The fit and alignment problems on the decklid itself were never really satisfactorily solved during the short time the option was available. If you have a Notchback, you know what I'm talking about. There is virtually no way to adjust it and get all the panel gaps in correct alignment. You pretty much have to get it as good as you can and just leave it; luckily for those of us who have these cars, most people are so taken with the design and appearance of the decklid itself that they never seem to notice the shortfalls on panel alignment."

 

So I'm guessing you didn't fix it, and from the description I'd think mine was a notch too, but I have a camaro. So no dice there either.

 

they aren't hard to fix but whatever you do dont use urethane sealent like the first post says he was going to use. they were put on from ythe factory with the buteryl i think its called, it is always gummy. it never hardens like urethane does. so if you use urethane and you have to for what ever reason take them apart again you will brake the hatch glass taking it apart.

 

Hey Randy, I'm new to this site and found this thread after I had entered mine. I have a couple questions I'd like to ask you if you don't mind. My grand daughter is now driving my 87 and some work has to be done to the rear deck. My first question concerns the metal that surrounds the glass. What holds it to the glass? It has some rust on it and I'd like to take it off clean it up and repaint. Any suggestions? Did you separate the lid from the glass with the glass still attached to the car? Why originally did you take it apart? Water leaks? Thanks for your assistance in advance. I may not be able to get back to you for a while.

John

 

the deck lid is held to the glass by butyl caulk/ tape however you prefer. it is a glass sealent that they used for windshields in the 60's and 70's. unlike urethane it never cures so it stays sticky all of the time. on the bottom of the decklid, there are 8 nuts to take off and a braket that the hatch shocks are affixed to. be careful. before removing make sure that you have a good prop rod holding the glass up. one the nuts and shocks are removed carefully set it back down. heat gently with a heat gun while gently wigiling it free. up and down and such. it takes a while but they do come free after about ten minutes. clean off with a razor blade. when reinstalling put butyl sealent (tape / rope caulk best way to describe it) on the glass and lower deck lid ontop lining it all up and getting straight body lines. here is the part that sucks. while you are holding it all lined up someone has to climb in and squeeze back there and put the bracket on and tighten the nuts. i haven't found or seen a better way to do this so this part of it kind of blows. you can get butyl from and body shop supply store, it is like 15 dollars for a 15 foot roll. i hope this helps need any more questions just ask.

 

I think that I'll attack the rust on the metal that surrounds the glass first and then look into separating the lid from the glass to reseal. I'm the originall owner of the Camaro, and the dealer "gooped" up an area on both sides of the uderside of the lid. I don't recall why now, but my best recollection is for water leaks. I do have some remaining "rubber" that I bought for reinstallation of the back window on my '67 Camaro that may be long enough to seal the glass to the lid on the ,87. I undoubtly will be back with more questions later. THANKS!

 

Just dump the glass for a Notchback. Still not perfect, but a better fit and its cooler in the car. With the glass hatch in Texas during the summer months, it was like an oven in the rear seats.

JB.