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Update Feb 2018, - I had a standing offer of $14,000 cash on Black Echo and struggled with making a decision for two weeks. Black Echo was sold today 2-17-18 for $14,000.
In 2014, I bought a 91 RS triple black convertible which got nicknamed Black Echo since my other RS is a white 91 ttop. Black Echo needed a professional repaint.
Here is what the paint looked like at purchase.
Note the well done burned white clear coat.
I started saving up the funds for a repaint and interviewed four body shops.
Local body shop did an estimate to repaint my black 91 RS Convertible. The car was 100% rust free, never been in an accident and mechanically 100%. Using Matrix paint the estimate was $4200. The quality of the shop's work was outstanding based on the cars & trucks I saw painted there. The quote included fixing every dent the shop and I could find on the car. The owner mentioned if the hood had to be replaced due to dents that would add about $500 to $1000 depending on how we proceeded. Owner said OEM parts are best fit and gave list of aftermarket companies to avoid. The shop is within a five minute drive of where I work. They provided written estimate.
Macco estimated $3500 with their best paint. I would have to mark every dent I wanted fixed. If a dent was missed that was on me. Black is tricky and I knew the car had several dings. I wasn't sure I could find all of them. This shop had fixed and painted 50+ 3rd gens and knew the cars very well. Hood should be replaced my choice. Fenders were fine just required minor work. The manager had owned several 3rd gens and had pictures of his cars. He was very positive. This Macco I trusted. They provided written estimate. Several 60's muscle cars were being painted and quality of paint work was outstanding. The shop was almost two hours away.
Another local shop estimated $4000 to paint the same car but insisted both fenders required replacement and the hood. They insisted OER and similar aftermarket parts always fit better than OEM GM. I questioned the owner in detail and he stood by that line. They had painted a few 3rd gens but basically said the cars are typically a lost cause. I found I didn't trust this shop or the owner with my car.
Last local shop has a big reputation but owners wife was clearly unhappy to see my camaro drive up to the shop. This surprised me because the owner had been very pro 3rd gen and enthusiastic about painting my RS. On my prior visit we had talked in detail when his shop fixed my girlfriend's truck. After seeing the RS his guesstimate was about $5000 to $6000. The wife ran the office and was at least unfriendly border line rude on this visit. The owner disappeared after the wife snapped at him and he sent one of his guys to do the quote. He actually looked sad. The other guy said $15,000 to paint car plus materials and parts with at least a one year wait - without looking at car. I said that was beyond my budget and so he recommended the shop at the top of this list. This shops work was outstanding but it was clear they didn't want my business. Later, I learned the shop owner was a big 3rd gen Camaro fan had owned one and raced one for many years. Rumor said the wife nagged him into getting rid of the Camaro and getting serious about expanding the business. Some times other factors are at work when a shop gives a big $15,000 quote. This shop had done excellent work for me before but wasn't the right place for restoration services.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 02-17-2018 at 05:16 PM.
On the outside chance the original paint could be salvaged I took the car by a detail shop and asked if cutting and buffing could improve the appearance of the paint. The shop refused to touch the car saying it was hopeless. I pointed out the clear turned back to clear when it was wet. The detail shop said regardless nothing would improve the look of the paint short of a repaint.
With nothing to lose I decide to wet sand and buff the car. Girlfriends Cat was happy to help.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 10-02-2016 at 07:49 AM.
Twenty or so hours of wet sanding with 1500, 3000, 5000 grit paper and lots of Meguires heavy cut, medium cut, swirl remover, many applications#7 Polish and #26 yeilded this result. If the car was in the sun for several hours it needed more #7 polish and was to restore appearance.
Best i could get thw hood wet sanding & #7 polish - I was amazed atchow well Meguire's worked.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 10-02-2016 at 07:50 AM.
The girlfriend (Mercedes SLK owner with the cat) was stunned at how well the "junk" American Camaro polished up. She was even happy riding in it once the paint was touched up
Same paint just lots of time and Meguires.
The cat didn't want to pose for the follow up picture. The SLK was more co-operative.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 10-02-2016 at 07:56 AM.
A year passed along with several girlfriends that came and went. The black convertible quickly proved to be the date car of choice. I was surprised how many of the ladies had owned a 3rd Gen back in the day. All seemed to love the old RS when the top was down. My new girlfriend encouraged getting Black Echo repainted. She also helped several times with the logistics of pick up & drop off.
I selected Andy's Collision & Repair to repaint the car. I felt Andy's estimate of $4200 was fair and I trusted him to do quality work. Andy has painted most of the fastest cars in the Wabash valley and one slow RS Camaro Convertible.
September 2015
Black Echo spent several days sitting and getting dents marked with tape. I marked a few and came back and found a few more. Andy and crew also marked every dent they noticed over several days of walking by the car. I was shocked at four dozen plus dents & dings marked and filled or otherwise fixed.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 10-02-2016 at 08:08 AM.
Andy's discovered a few problems with the car that needed to be addressed:
1. The doors needed new pin & bushing kit to open and close properly.
2. The wind shield ideally should be replaced because it had started to delaminate in about a dozen places along the edge. This wasn't fully visible until the rubber seal was removed.
3. The hood had too many small dents and would require lots of filling to fix. This might be passable on a light color car but with black there was a high risk a dent would show. Hood replace required.
4. The rear spolier had one attachment point that wasn't broken. New spolier required. We discussed using wind shield urethane to attach spoiler. There would be a risk of squeeze out which could mar finish and if the spolier was ever damaged removing it would damage the truck lid and probably require paint work to fix.
5. Tail light housings & park light housings needed to be replaced due to weathering otherwise car wouldn't look as good as it should.
6. Decal that goes on tonneau cover has been discontinued but we needed a replacement.
7. The front spoiler was more damaged than it appeared when on the car. It was repairable.
The good news the car was totally rust free and had never been in an accident. No frame machine time was required to get the car into spec.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 09-26-2016 at 04:32 PM.
The pin & bushing kit cost $7 per door and Andy's fixed door alignment.
The windshield replacment cost $300 plus gasket but was well worth it. Everything was so much clearer and sharper when looking thru the new glass.
The hood proved to be a problem. None of the currently made replacements were up to OEM specification. I decided if money had to be spent on a hood, the car would get an upgrade to an IROC style hood. I called 20 salvage yards in several states and located one rusty stock hood on a v6 3rd Gen. I finally called Hawk's Motorsports, they said there might have one salvagable OEM IROC hood. It would need work and they would send pictures so I could make an informed decision. Cost to be determined.
One of my friends has a purple 92 RS Convertible named Barney that's become great source for spare parts. Barney's hood had dents but I had high hopes of getting a free replacement spoiler. In short, Barney's spoiler had exactly one good attachment point and was no better than the one I had. Based on looking for an IROC hood I knew it was hopeless to find a good used spoiler so I called Hawk's Motorsports. All of their used ones were just like mine. So I ordered a new one. I was warned delivery would probably take two months since this item was made to order and they didn't have any in stock. I was happy to pay $300 plus shipping since this was my only choice.
I spent some time wet sanding and polishing the tail lights and park lights. No replacement tail lights could be found. Barney had one cracked and the other was dingier than what I had. Since costs were growing I also set sanded the park lights.
Andy figured out a way to make a tonneau cover decal by tracing the old one. This turned out better than expected and was worth the $200 in labor and materials. I couldn't find a source for an OEM style decal.
The front spoiler was repaired successfully. However, I would have to forego having the door jams repainted to stay on budget.
In the paint booth magic in process!
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 10-02-2016 at 08:11 AM.
I was delighted an OEM IROC hood! With some work it would be idea for my car.
The rust needed some attention.
Hawk's Motorsports made sure I understood what I was getting. The hood would need a professional refinish. It was not suitable to bolt on to car as is. We discussed details on phone. I showed the body shop the pictures. Andy was like that's a better hood than I expected you to find, get it. Its going to take some labor to fix the minor issues and prime but that's a good hood. I ordered the hood and was happy to get it. If I recall correctly, the hood was $400 With shipping, the extra labor and paint work was $250.
When the hood arrived Andy said I had done good to find a real IROC hood and get it for the price paid. Then he asked so where are the louvers?
I told him I was still looking for a set of nice used louvers but most of them had attachment studs broken off. New OEM louvers were about $500 and my budget was too tight for that.
One edge need some hammer & dolly love. The rusted corner was fixed. One small dent was fixed.
When I saw the primed hood I felt like my car was definitely at the right body shop. I was also positive Hawk's Motorsports was the place to do business with because they got me what I needed quick. The hood was on my door step 4 days after I ordered it! The body shop couldn't believe how fast we got the hood. A+ for Hawk's Motorsports.
The search for louvers turned out to be a challenge. New old stuff OEM louvers were about $500 a set. After a coupe of sets on eBay escaped capture, I started so consider power blisters like the 91-92 Z28's had. One of my friends, actually the one who had found Black Echo said he would call the car "Herpes Camaro" every time he saw it If I put a set of power blisters on the hood instead of louvers on the car.
There's a good chance I will eventually sell him the car. He passed at the time because he picked up a C5 vert. Since then he's made a few offers to buy. Echo, so I redoubled my efforts to find a good set of louvers.
Lucky for me Crossrush was parting his red 86 IROC the to rust. We worked out a deal and soon a set of louvers were in hand. I would have loved to get hood too. However, it couldn't be shipped and was too far to drive and pick up.
I was very happy with the louvers for $170 shipped to my door.
Several studs were broken but it was nothing a little windshield urethane couldn't fix.
I felt bad about seeing this car parted but rust is bad news.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 09-27-2016 at 03:38 PM.
The car was coming along. It was just a matter of the hood catching up and waiting on the spoiler to arrive.
You can see the traced, hand made and hand cut tonneau cover decal that Andy created. All the bulbs were replaced while the car was apart. New weather stripping For the doors and new window felt.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 09-27-2016 at 03:58 PM.
Where is the body shop located? I frequent Indiana often to see my folks and when I'm ready to get a fresh painting it may be worth stopping by there.
Andy's Collision & Repair is located in Terre Haute, Indiana a few miles off of I70 exit 7.
I recommend Andy's. Have a sense of humor, he joking will offer you like $500 for your car. Or that's what he offered me before the car was painted. Upped the offer to $1500 afterwards.He used to have a TPI 3rd Gen Camaro...with worked Brodix heads
Sometimes it's like visiting Graveyard Cars...once had a Mopar Cuda getting works is frame off restoration.
Or something else really cool may show up for paint work...biggest Toyota V8 ever...wink
The Mopar geting the Graveyard Cars type restoration. Note the color is the new version not the classic color.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 11-25-2022 at 12:02 PM.
Do youse have to paint w/ water-base like here in crazy cali?
Thank you Mike. Indiana is pretty reasonable. As long as the proper procedures are followed pretty much any paint can be used from what I understand. In many ways. Indiana is very car friendly.
Originally Posted by rarebmx
Great looking car but a better story.
These shops sure do vary on price for paint. I have been getting some quotes & they are all over the place.
Thank you! I've had fun sharing the story Quotes do vary for sure, mine ranges from $3500 to $15,000. When I we fixed my girlfriend's truck after hitting a deer quotes ranged from $3500 to $7500. The $3500 quote covered replacing the cracked windshield which the $7500 quote missed. I say always get several and make sure your comfortable with who is doing the work and quote.
Doing this with a cell phone instead of my laptop is a challenge. I apologize for the typo's...some of it is autocorrect issues.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 09-28-2016 at 08:18 PM.
I wanted new rims for Black Echo so bad, I broke my cardinal rule of hot rodding, never ever buy anything on a credit card if you will have to carry a balance.
Just this once I charged the IROC rims. What's another $800 when babe needs shoes?
Girlfriend wasn't happy for the next three months as going out was confined to Subway or local Greasey spoon dinner while I paid down the balance.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 11-25-2022 at 12:05 PM.
Wow this car really came out nice, I would have been just as happy to own it after the polished paint but this is sweet now? Good job on all the work you've done it really paid off.
After you installed that tonneau decal was it very visible? Just wondering in need to have one installed on mine as well.
I noticed I had missed adding a few photos for the thread and edited a few spots etc.
The RS's spoiler arrived about two months later. Andy painted it and attached it. I had had time to carefully check the car out and was very happy with the results. Two minor details were touched up. I ended up spending just under $7000
$4200 paint & body work
$1000 IROC rims, center caps, luv nuts & covers
$1200 IROC hood, louvers, repair, repaint and new spoiler
$ 500 weather stripping, bulbs, window felt, door pins, new emblems & other minor stuff
$6900 or right at
Surprisingly Black Echo has become almost a 'family car'. The girlfriend, her son and the grand children adore the car on sunny days and love to have the top down. The old 91 RS seems to be the grad kids (age 5 & 7) favorite car. They will ask to ride in the RS over either truck, white RS, Ultima or TA and the 72 vette.
I have a standing $14,000 cash offer on Black Echo. I conflicted about accepting even though I will basically get everything I spent on Black Echo back. Thoughts?
If you have that other thirdgen I would take the offer. Unless the car is a low mileage car I don't think you'd receive a better offer. After I had my garage fire I had to battle the insurance company and come up with a list of what thirdgens in excellent condition in my area were selling for and outside of a low mileage or show car custom I didn't see any normal thirdgens, stock or restored stock, sell for that much.
Yes, I still have Arctic White my 400,000 mile daily driver that's now an LS resto-mod.
The body shop made a gasket but I don't recall what or how they did.
Black Echo has over 114,,000 miles on the odometer.
The car has all maintenance and repair paperwork from when new until now. The car has no accident history. I'm the second owner. Mechanical condition is excellent, I've taken the car on 1,300 mile trips and would do so again.
This is the fourth time someone has approached me and made an offer on the car.
I appreciate the input Tibo and everyone.
There really aren't any other cars that have my interest to the point I'd want to buy.
Talked with Andy at body shop that painted my car. He made gaskets for the spoiler from RV Camper foam tape. This is the foam tape put between the bottom edges of the camper she'll and the truck bed. It sticks to the camper shell and foam side goes against the truck's paint / body work so it doesn't get scratched. I don't know the brand name. Picture below.
He gave me the rest of the roll and I will send it to you just PM me a mailing address.
Talked with Andy at body shop that painted my car. He made gaskets for the spoiler from RV Camper foam tape. This is the foam tape put between the bottom edges of the camper she'll and the truck bed. It sticks to the camper shell and foam side goes against the truck's paint / body work so it doesn't get scratched. I don't know the brand name. Picture below.
He gave me the rest of the roll and I will send it to you just PM me a mailing address.
09-25-2016, 05:02 PM
