Well, I've been driving an '89 Formula I took in on trade at work that I'm thinking about buying for $1k. Car runs great, looks so-so...this morning the damn hatch motor quit, and yet was working perfectly the 4-5 times I had opened it before.

What's happening is when I put it down, I thought it was being pulled in but it wasn't. The latch mechanism is all the way down. I tried putting the key in the lock to see if it would work...that won't do anything. I checked the fuse block for a blown fuse...I don't see any. Which fuse is for the hatch motor anyways?? I don't have the owners manual for it. It just seems to have quit entirely. Thankfully, the hatch struts are shot, so the trunk is staying closed...

I have a used hatch motor, but I have no idea if it works. I pulled the back panel off, and I can sorta see how to put the new one on. How hard is it to just try this motor and see if it works?? Can there be a problem with aligning the replacement motor on the track and blowing it up too??

Any help would be greatly appreciated...by the way, how much does a new hatch motor cost if the used one doesn't work??

 

The "LID" fuse powers the hatch pull-down motor. New they are over $400. I have 3 replacement parts available for the 86-91 hatch pull-down motors. New guides, gear nut and motor housing. E-mail me if you need any of these parts. Lon

 

First off ..the fuse is NOT in the fuse block for the pull down motor.....it's outside the fuse block...in and/or around it..out of one of the harnesses..is a flat inline fuse connector (15 Amps) ..at least thats where the '86 T/A is...just went through this..Second the key only operates the hatch release...not the motor...take off the panal and see if you have power to the motor(12V)mine is a red/wht wire..if there is power, it not the motor. If no power, check the fuse. Maybe in the '89 it's in the fuse block, but not according to my '86 GM manual and was not the case in reality. If you have power, and the motor runs, it may be the Gear nut, its plastic and gives up easily.
Get the motor from GM(wholesale) $60.00, get all the other stuff from topdownsolutions@yahoo.com. like I said I just went through this last weekend, got it fixed and it is GREAT. got any questions, just ask......................

PS: The lid fuse on '86 is for the latch release not the pull down!

Hope this helps and does not confuse the issue

 

Jason, you say the latch mech is all the way down.......look at your latch mechanism, there is a microswitch in there near the top. it controls the up/down movement. I would be willing to bet it you pushed that switch with a small screwdriver or something, your latch would come back up and you could shut the trunk. try it out.

 

Thanks for the advice and the quick responses so far. I'm going outside now to look for that switch. Would I be able to use this all the time this way?? Or would I need to activate the switch every time I close the trunk?? I'm just thinking short-term $$ saving here. Does anyone know for sure where the fuse is in the '89? Who's right on this one??

I'll look for it outside the fuse panel anyways...thanks again.

 

Just went outside, and bradkeith, if the switch you are referring to is a little TINY switch you move back and forth that sits between the latch and the body of the car, well, that didn't help

Also, is the price of a motor $400 or $60?? Those two numbers are quite different Keep in mind, I can get Delco parts at dealer cost. If it really is only $60, I can deal!!

 

OK, 86 was a weird year and the fuse for the hatch may ineed be separate from the fuse block. I'll take your word for is, since I don't have a HELMs Manual for that year. I just took a 86 pull-down unit apart for the first time yesterday to discover it uses different guides than later model years (2 pieces per side instead of one for a total of 8). I am attaching a link to scans from my 1988 Camaro HELMs Manual. It (and my 90 HELMs Manual) shows the "LID" fuse powering the hatch pull down unit. I have phisically verified this on my 90. I hope this helps, Lon.

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/topdownso...src=ph&.view=t

 

p/n's:
16604066 88-91 hatch pull-down assy.
22021675 Motor only.

 

Thanks lonsal,

I'll go check again in the morning, but I remember seeing the "LID" fuse, pulling it and not seeing it blown

Thanks for the part #s too...my parts manager always likes that! How much is just the motor?? Sorry for all the annoying questions...its just that I don't wanna end up spending $300-400 on a $1,000 just so I can close the trunk!

Finally, my dad said that when my old '89 Camaro's hatch motor got messed up, he said he remembers pushing down on the hatch REAL hard, and got it to latch even though the motor wasn't working. Is this possible?? Try as I might I can't get it...the damn spoiler is too big lol!!

 

That's too bad about the switch not solving your problem. I'm pretty sure there's only one switch back there. my 89 rs does that switch thing every once in a while.

 

Jason, Ok you got me wondering. I went out and took a picture of my hatch motor in the 89. I circled the switch that i was referring to.

 

Jason: I don't stock the motor (but maybe I should). I have a 86 pull-down unit I'm currently repairing for a local member that has bad brushes. Well, I just looked up the motor and it doesn't show up. Maybe the Parts Manager can look up a cross-reference from it. Or you can buy the actuator assy (p/n 16604065) which includes the motor, latch, motor housing, gearnut, bearing & reversing switch. Gmpartsdirect.com has it for $262.71.

bradkeith: There are 2 switches on the pull-down unit. The striker sensing switch you are referring to (86-87 p/n 20627125 or 88-91 p/n 16604067) and the reversing switch (p/n 20614880). The striker switch powers the motor up or down when engaged by the loop from the hatch. The reversing switch is actuated by a tab on the piece that the gear nut causes to move up/down to raise or lower the latch assy. That switch reverses the direction the motor runs.

Lon

 

Thanks for the input Lonsal, It was the striker switch that was causing my latch mechanism to stay in the down position

 

bradkeith,

Thanks for taking the time to go out and take a picture!! If that is the switch that moves towards and away from the body (which I am positive it is), that sure didn't work But thanks for the tip.

lonsal,

Thanks for the pricing info and stuff. It would appear the motor is definitely my problem (unless somehow I go out there tomorrow and the fuse is magically blown ).

I noticed you give 2 part #s for the same assembly (I admit I may be getting things mixed up!!). Is there a difference between the 16604066 and 16604065 assemblies?? Sorry for the confusion.

The first thing I am going to do is go out with my dad tomorrow night and see if we can hook up the old one and make it work. If it does, then I'm in the clear. I have never had hatch problems before, so all this is new to me. My RS stopped working all the way back around '93, then started working again, and NEVER gave me a problem.

One other thing...is it possible to push down on this thing hard enough to get it to latch?? Or will I be wasting time and effort?

 

On my wife's 89 Firebird:
My friend and I welded the mount to the rails. We tested it until we got it perfect. Very solid.
Fighting with that little motor is too much!
No problems at all. Key works fine, just no "motorized" pulldown.
If you can live without the little "oooh it takes the hatch down slow and locks it for me" kind of thing, I would do that.
A lot simpler and no problems. Just be very very sure to have it lined up correctly before you weld the rails to the mount.
It took us one try.
Actually, it is a LOT more secure than it was before.

Remove the motor too. No need for it.

 

16604066 consists of more items. It includes all the items from the "65" p/n plus the actuator release (aka solenoid), striker switch, and relay. It is basically the entire hatch pull-down unit. Hence the $437.85 GM list price & $262.71 price that GMpartsdirect wants for it.

Lon

 

thank *** i will never have that problem again! those stupid hatch motors always break! I had all sorts of problems w/ my 89'... it ended up totally crapping out so i just had to slam it REALLY hard. I love how my 85' just has a simple one like in the 4th gens... there is a reason the new ones done have em'. couldnt you just get a new mechanism?

 

The part No. for the electric motor and the clear plastic gear housing(both come together) is 16608837 and is 60.00 wholesale from a dealership. I just bought one. GM Parts Direct has the Unit and it's about $46.00 plus about $8.00 Shipping. Good Luck. Check for 12V first. If you don't have 12V to the motor, you may not need the motor.

 

Smurfnz28,

I could get a new one, and that may be the only option. Right now, the car needs other stuff too, and I already have 2 cars. This is going to be a third car for a 22 year old starting grad school this fall LOL...assuming I buy it, it will get a ground-up resto in a couple years, but for now I need to maintain it cheap!

Thanks to lonsal for telling me about gmpartsdirect...never knew about it!

 

No prob about the pic jason. Just trying to help a fellow third genner out. There's always have an excuse to go play with my cars!

 

After 2 broke on my car what i did was there's a little brass motor on the bottom that turns a gear that goes into a plastic covering. Just a couple screws hold the motor on so take the little brass motor off and the shaft screw gear thing should come out too, take the gear off the motor and stick it back into the plastic and turn it by hand the trunk will go up if cant turn by hand just use a cresant (spelling) wrench to hold on to it. ONce you get the trunk open continue popping the trunk and moving the hatch down with the gear until it doesn't close the turn it a hair back up so the trunk is the tightest it can be and still close. Leave the moter thing out and it will work like a regular hatch has mad my life so much easier not having to wory about that ****ing piece of junk. Hope this helps.

 

dakkon, here's the problem with your method. You are still using the motor housing as part of the equation. The motor housing (that plastic covering as you described) is indeed injectionn molded plastic. It is one of the weak points of the design, along with the plastic gearnut and injection molded guides. It WILL NOT hold up to slamming the hatch. Every used hatch pull-down unit I've dismantled has had cracks or been completly broken where it mounts the motor housing to the frame of the pull-down unit. Once the housing has finally broken away the latch portion is free to travel up and down. If you follow up your method by removing the hatch pull-down unit from the car and welding or bolting the track together then reinstalling it (as Snowdog suggests), that would work. I'm just not a fan of having to repeatedly slam a hatch to latch it.

Lon

 

Exactly Lon!
No need to "slam" the hatch down at all. It works just like a regular hatch now. Compared to my 91, it is the same solid seal.
The problem with the other method, "slamming" until it latches is this: try lifting the hatch with it locked. What will happen is the mechanism assembly will lift the hatch about 3/4"-1" higher. Hence, the reason for welding it down. It's the best thing to do. Paying all that money for a new motor assembly so it will "pull" the latch down is a waste of money in my opinion.
I never slam the lid down. It lines up nicely and has a solid connection. Can you guarantee that with a new motor assmbly put in? I don't think so. Problem with that design is you can literally pull the mount apart and crack the guides and it will just end up costing you more money to replace it once again.
The only thing I can't emphasize enough is lining up the latch to the rails and getting it right. You have it too high, there will be an air leak in the back of your hatch. You have it too low, and it won't latch at all!
A good suggestion to getting it lined up is using some temporary way of lining it up by using solid core wire, or some other support of the latch.
Once it is in the right spot, DO have it welded in place, or drill and make a solid support. Don't rely on some wire to hold it in place for too long.
Between my 91 (which never had a motor) and my wife's 89, you can't tell the difference. The only visual difference is the bristles around the hole where the latch is on her car.
I don't slam either of them. They latch nicely. No problems at all.
It's my opinion to do what I did, for that motor assembly is not really that solid at all.
It's really up to you what you do. Like I said, it's not a major loss at all, and you will be happy for a long time in the future too.

 

The stuff from lonsol is absolutly top quality. topdownsolutions@yahoo.com It relly is the only way to go in my opinion.

 

Hey a bit late for the party, but I need help. My hatch motor died a week ago. I have an 87 Firebird.

The plastic case at the screw holes had disintigrated and I rigged it back into the correct position, it worked for a year. Then last week it froze in the down position it would not go up or down no matter what I did. I figured my motor must have finally died. Since the case was shot anyway, I had a spare from the junk yard and put it in. The relay on mine was corroded, so I cleaned the contacts on the plug and swapped in a new relay. Still no go, so I decide to check the fuses. Mine is aparently not in the fuse block. I looked all over and I'm not sure what i'm looking for. I have an aftermarket alarm and there are wires all over under the dash. Fuses are all over.

So here's my question. What does the hatch flat inline fuse connector look like. Is is fuse a blade style or a round? I found a blade style in a black flat case w/ a no. 15 fuse. It has a notch in the side where it can hang on the side of the fuse block. It has a thick red wire and a thinner red and white wire.

Is this the one?

If it is it is not blown. So now what? Check the motor to see if it has power right?

Thanks you guys.

 

As far as I know this is the only guy who can help you.

 

Since I've never taken apart another motor, I thought your kit was an improvement on GM's design, but I kept wondering what the push nut was for mine was held together with a nut and bolt.

Anyway, I used your kit, it fit great and my hatch works like new.

 

Mostly just wanted to know what teh fuse and holder looked like. I need to know if I checked the right thing.

I will try emailing now.
thanks!

 

Sometimes the motor decides to sit at the bottom of it's travel, no amount of banging/slamming is going to shut the lid. Stuff your finger down on the left hand side of the motor (e.g. thru' the nylon brushes) and push the reset button. That'll bring the motor back up.

Regards,
Paul

 

Hey redraif....if yours is an '86... it is a flat bladed fuse...wires are red w/white stripe...the fuse holder is black..sits on the left side of the fuse block...it hangs out of a taped wire harness, very close to the side of the fuse block...take down the bottom trim piece of the dash..the part that surrounds the fuse block...look closely it will be there if your's is an '86.

Also, you can check for power at the motor end of the power source. The harness comes out of the left side of the body, behind all the trim panals in the trunk area. The wire is (You guesed it) red w/white stripe. Check for 12V.

 

Thanks ebby53.
I guess I had found the right fuse. I checked the power to the motor and it had power. I checked the motor really close when I pulled it out. A piece of the plastic case had broken off and wedged itself behind the motors pulldown arm. I believe it jammed the motor as it tried to keep pulling down the hatch. This must have burnt out the relay. I replaced it, but I believe that my battery was so weak, because of the drain of the pull down, that it would not operate the motor. I got my new red top and installed it Friday and Tada everything worked. I reiforced the plastic case on this motor, so hopefully it will last.
Thanks everybody for your help. Now I have 4 spare pulldown motors at the house. I got some at pull-a-part last time I was there in case my replacement motor was blown too.

 

where is a good place to get just the plastic case? My motor works fine but a friend of mine shut it alittle to hard and now I have it safety wired to stay in place. And how hard is it to swap just the plastic case?

 

I sell the motor housing, gear nut and guides. My motor housings are new GM units that are reinforced where yours broke with 4 specially formed pieces of aluminum & epoxy. The guides are made of solid nylon and much stronger than the OEM injection molded pieces. E-mail me and I'll send you a price List of what I offer in addition to these items. Lon
e-mail: topdownsolutions@yahoo.com

 

I have a similar problem...

So I'm a very proud owner of my newly aquired 1989 V8 305 Camaro RS, I just bought it used a few days ago for about 1800. I drove it this afternoon and accidentally slammed the rear hatch down as I would a trunk, not knowing how fragile the electronic latch mechanism is, and I think I shattered it. The motor still works fine, when I press the switch, the latch travels up and down again. However, when I close the hatch, it simply does not grab ahold of the hook and close it the last few inches. I took off the cover to see what the problem is and found the shattered plastic pieces mentioned in similar forums.

My question is this: short of purchasing the reinforced assembly for 100+ bucks or welding the assembly, is there any cheap fix? I wouldn't mind welding and bypassing the fragile and finicky electronics, I just don't currently have access to a welder. I took some pics.

 

I agree...have th same problem with my 86 Iroc-z...getting power to the motor but I think that I burned it up in an ice storm last winter...looking for a replacement

 

Lon, is the MAN in this area! He has helped me several times, you can count on his sound advice.

Thanks, Andy