kermit_one

Do I really need the 4 GM bolts and washers for the 1le swap or can I just go to a hardware store and pick up the right size?If so,what are the dimensions(size)of the bolts and washers?Thanks,Jeremy

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92RS,POLO GREEN

Apeiron

I doubt you'd find them in a hardware store, they're aluminum.

kermit_one

Do they need to be aluminum....Are you sure they are aluminum,why would GM put aluminum bolts on a brake system made for racing? I've seen rotors glowing red on a road course wouldn't they get pretty soft?

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92RS,POLO GREEN

GregWestphal

iTrader: (1)

Actually, I hope they're not aluminum, and I'm pretty sure they're Grade 8 steel. You wouldn't want cheap hardware store bolts since they're usually a much lower grade, which means they're made from a weaker steel.

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Greg Westphal
'87 IROC 305TPI/A4

kermit_one

Good point Greg.....but GM wants alot of cash for a couple of washers and bolts...

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92RS,POLO GREEN

[This message has been edited by kermit_one (edited May 25, 2001).]

Apeiron

If they're not aluminum, I don't know what they are. Whatever it is, they're grade 10.9

GregWestphal

iTrader: (1)

OK, I can solve this one. SAE Grade 8 bolts are the same as metric Grade 10.9 bolts, just the difference in thread pitch (standard vs. metric). So, they're medium-carbon alloy steel bolts.

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Greg Westphal
'87 IROC 305TPI/A4

Apeiron

I've got these things here in my hand, and I'm telling you, there's no way these things are steel.

ANDYZ28

The bolts are steel. Put a magnet up against them. You NEED all four bolts, And all four washers. Remember they must be torqued to 137 lbs ft. I had originally used 10.9 bolts from work, w/the relativly thin washers.As I approached the torque spec, the head of the bolt actually began to bite into the washers. The GM bolts are what the factory used. So thats what I used, and I am glad I did. The GM washers are at least twice as thick as standard washers. And thay are quite hard as well.
As I torqued the factory bolts up. I could feel a big improvment. They torqued up nice and firm.
So, you will need 4ea #18022602 small bolts
4ea #14084051 large bolts / 4ea 10268875 hardened washers. I hope this helps.

kermit_one

Thanks Andy,I guess I'll have to fork out the extra cash for the bolts.Thanks,Jeremy
Oh,what is the cheapest anyone has found them for?

TRAXION

FYI,

I recently bought all 8 bolts, the 4 washers, and 2 new brake hose bolts for about $38 from Dal.

Tim

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TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

Stuart Moss

The mixing of fastner strengths is generally not good practice. Mixing fastners (bolts, nuts and/or washers) often results in only achieving the strength of the weakest link. That is why if you're going to use a grade 8 bolt, you should also use a grade 8 washer and a grade 8 nut (even though the spindle is not "grade 8"). Grade 8 washers are available (even the local Tractor Supply store has a very good supply of them), but are difficult to find.

If Andy used non-grade 8 washers (he stated that they were thinner and the GM washers were not only thicker but harder) as it would seem, that would explain why the harder bolt head started to bite into the washer. But, as he stated, the GM washers are thicker and that would present a problem. It would seem that at least the washers would have to be obtained from GM (unless you know a really well stocked fastner outlet or can temper them yourself!). I wonder if its even necessary to have the thicker washers.

Since Tim got all of those fastners for only $38, I think that that price would be hard to beat trying to get the same fastners elsewhere (non-GM).

Kudos to Andy for at least trying to put the system together with readily available parts.

[This message has been edited by Stuart Moss (edited May 25, 2001).]

ANDYZ28

The GM fasteners were also coated with the thread locking compound. By the way,as some of you know. I am a notorious cheap skate! So if I woulr actually "pay" for the GM fasteners. Then I must have really needed them.

kermit_one

Hey there isn't anything wrong with that... What are the part#'s for the brakeline bolts? I forgot all about them.


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92RS,POLO GREEN

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Hello fellows. Andy, I probably sound like I'm beating a dead horse, but don't "we" need a TOTAL of 8 washers? Ed math comes up with this: 8 bolts (4 bolts per spindle) =8 washers. In the pictures on both large threads, I thought I saw a washer on each bolt used to hold the bracket to the spindle and the plate to the bracket. WTF?

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Hello fellows. Andy, I probably sound like I'm beating a dead horse, but don't "we" need a TOTAL of 8 washers? Ed math comes up with this: 8 bolts (4 bolts per spindle) =8 washers. In the pictures on both large threads, I thought I saw a washer on each bolt used to hold the bracket to the spindle and the plate to the bracket. WTF?

Metalifann

At Advance Auto parts, we sell grade 8 and class 10.9 bolts. Are you sure that I couldn't use these? Also, are you sure that the bolts have a thread-locking compound on them, or is that anti-sieze?

ANDYZ28

Ok! Once more. The bolts definitly have thread loking compound on them.
Please use the GM bolts. As cheap as I am, I used them, and the thick special hardened washers too. After all the money laid out for the major parts. It's mearly pocket change.
Now,lastly. I am reminded "That no good deed ever goes unpunished". For example; I did NOT use the GM# bolts to attach the adapter bracket to the spindle (I wish like hell that I had now though). Because I did not know that I needed them, and jayg had come over to take the pictures. I felt under some pressure to get the thing going. So I left the NON GM bolt in there. I had planned to change them, and picture them before final assembly. But that did not work out. The GM adapter plate to caliper bolts DO NOT USE WASHERS. So you will not need 8 washers. Only 4.
Please keep in mind. That I am doing all of this for you guys! Answering over 40 emails a day. Replying to the thirdgen board questions, because people can't @*%&#'n read the entire posts. I am doing the very best I can for all of you. For free, and trying to keep a real job. And trying to finish our web page of over 100 photos to be edited and annotated.
Thanx,ANDYZ28

[This message has been edited by ANDYZ28 (edited May 26, 2001).]

kermit_one

Hey Andy your doing a great job man,don't think it isn't apppreciated.If it weren't for you I would of waisted a whole lot of money on a complete package somewhere.Guys like you make this hobby affordable.
....Thanks,Jeremy

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92RS,POLO GREEN

ANDYZ28

Thanx,Dude.
I really am working hard for all of you guys.
When this settles down a bit. I think I will need you guys to help me out with something.

Metalifann

Andy, I just wanted to say thanks too. If it weren't for your patience and willingness to shell out all of the information that you do, I would have never even considered piecing together my own upgrade. Thanks for all your help.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

I really need to thank you andy because of you I got the most valuable parts for mine before it was too late.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Simply put, Andy is the man. I appreciate what he has done for all of us and what he continues to do. I am VERY thankful of what he has helped me out with, I have my GM brackets thanks to his insight.

Sorry to ruffle the feathers a bit, I apologize. Anything you need help with Andy, give me a call. Richmond is a short trip and I have a lot of time. Thanks again.

ANDYZ28

Thanx,guys. I have never done the rear brake upgrade. Because as I said before. My car already had it on the 9bolt rear.
If someone has done this upgrade. Please pass along any tips. For example; I don't know the first thing about the adapter/plates for these brakes. I do have a spare set of rear caliper cradles though. They have "Corvette" cast into them. They are identical to the ones on my Z28. I was planning on installing them on my car. When I get the money to replace my rear calipers.
I was not aware that the PBR calipers could even be fitted to a 10 bolt. I am sure somebody has the skills to document this (ed) rear brake upgrade.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

The closest thing I can find to a complete "how-to" on the rear upgrade has already been done. YES!!!

Go to this link: http://www.isthq.com/~dan/1LEbrake.html

I'm sure some of you guys have already seen it. I think it is very good, although it may not have exactly what you may need. It's pretty damn close. As you'll notice, it covers the front also. The only part I'm nervous about is the rear shim stuff. I guess you have to get it lined up good or you'll eat pads and rotors. Keep reading down a bit and Dan lists the P/Ns for a caliper rebuild also. I have P/Ns for M/C rebuild kits and caliper rebuild kits in my parts and illustration manual at home. Let me know if you want them posted. Hope this helps..

I'll document as much as I can when I get around to it, probably in the August-September range.

ANDYZ28

Ed, We will need lots of pics,w/graphics.

Metalifann

Yes, pics with as detailed as possible instructions. The more information we can get, the less our chances of screwing it up half way through.

ANDYZ28

Yes,pictures of every single part. any problems, and as it is assembled. That way almost anyone could do it.
Oh,and by the way. Where do you get the rear caliper carrier at/from.