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Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

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Old Mar 20, 2011 | 01:22 PM
  #1  
1991_RS's Avatar
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From: West Michigan
Car: 1989 Formula Firebird
Engine: Swapped 350 TPI speed density
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 (soon to be 3.42)
Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

I've done drum brakes many times before on other cars & trucks, but this 91 Camaro RS is the first one like this. Just an odd question: When assembled, is the adjuster actuator lever supposed to pivot freely and come off the top spring assembly (not the hold down spring)?

I can rotate the actuator back and forth so that it engages the top spring or comes unhooked. It doesn't look like it will ever miss catching the spring, but logically, it doesn't seem right.

Everything else appears to be in the correct position according to my repair manual and a photo of an assembled RS drum system, however, nothing mentions tension on the actuator.
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Old Mar 20, 2011 | 01:30 PM
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From: Cary, North Carolina
Car: 1992 RS
Engine: Carbed 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 posi
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

Does this diagram help you any? I mean I know you said you've done them before, but maybe you're missing a piece or something, and a peek at a diagram might help:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...rum-brake5.htm

Hate drums, so glad I swapped in a 4th gen rear with LS1 discs!
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Old Mar 20, 2011 | 02:10 PM
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From: West Michigan
Car: 1989 Formula Firebird
Engine: Swapped 350 TPI speed density
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 (soon to be 3.42)
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

Originally Posted by camaronewbie

Hate drums, so glad I swapped in a 4th gen rear with LS1 discs!
Speaking of that, does the width cause any issues when swapping?
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Old Mar 20, 2011 | 02:15 PM
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1991_RS's Avatar
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From: West Michigan
Car: 1989 Formula Firebird
Engine: Swapped 350 TPI speed density
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 (soon to be 3.42)
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

Originally Posted by camaronewbie
Does this diagram help you any? I mean I know you said you've done them before, but maybe you're missing a piece or something, and a peek at a diagram might help:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...rum-brake5.htm
Thanks, but the brakes on the F-body have a funny bent wire that connects one of the springs to the actuator. The wire wraps over the pin at the top so the spring for the shoe has tension but the actuator isn't affected.

http://z28boy.cz28.com/pictures/rear%20brakes%201.jpg

It's the bent wire that connects the actuator to the pin and also the green spring.
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Old Mar 21, 2011 | 02:12 AM
  #5  
ASE doc's Avatar
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From: Aurora, OR
Car: 87 IROC Z28
Engine: 355 cid TPI
Transmission: Custom Built 700R4 w/3,500 stall
Axle/Gears: QP fab 9" 3.70 Truetrac
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

How stuff works is not a complete or sometimes even accurate representation of how stuff works. Especially when it comes to vehicle systems. They show one type of auto adjusting drum brake when there are several different types. The 3rd gen doesn't use that design.

1991 RS, are you missing the small coil spring(lever return spring) that holds the actuator tight against the "bent wire" actuator link?
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Old Mar 21, 2011 | 02:25 AM
  #6  
ASE doc's Avatar
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From: Aurora, OR
Car: 87 IROC Z28
Engine: 355 cid TPI
Transmission: Custom Built 700R4 w/3,500 stall
Axle/Gears: QP fab 9" 3.70 Truetrac
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

BTW, I learned long long ago never to tear down both sides of drum brakes at the same time. That way you have an example to go by should you get lost. That is as long as the last brake job was done correctly.
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Old Mar 21, 2011 | 09:02 AM
  #7  
1991_RS's Avatar
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From: West Michigan
Car: 1989 Formula Firebird
Engine: Swapped 350 TPI speed density
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 (soon to be 3.42)
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

Originally Posted by ASE doc
BTW, I learned long long ago never to tear down both sides of drum brakes at the same time. That way you have an example to go by should you get lost. That is as long as the last brake job was done correctly.
Yeah, I have done so many in the past I figured it was just routine. I learned my lesson here!
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Old Mar 21, 2011 | 09:04 AM
  #8  
1991_RS's Avatar
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From: West Michigan
Car: 1989 Formula Firebird
Engine: Swapped 350 TPI speed density
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 (soon to be 3.42)
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

Originally Posted by ASE doc
How stuff works is not a complete or sometimes even accurate representation of how stuff works. Especially when it comes to vehicle systems. They show one type of auto adjusting drum brake when there are several different types. The 3rd gen doesn't use that design.

1991 RS, are you missing the small coil spring(lever return spring) that holds the actuator tight against the "bent wire" actuator link?
I'm thinking so. In the picture (link I posted above and again below) I don't see it. I only have 3 springs. Unless I've assembled the lower spring wrong, which could be the case, then it's a matter of dis-assembly and reassembly.

In the picture http://z28boy.cz28.com/pictures/rear%20brakes%201.jpg does the left hook on the white spring go to the left shoe or to the actuator?
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Old Mar 21, 2011 | 10:39 AM
  #9  
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From: Cary, North Carolina
Car: 1992 RS
Engine: Carbed 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 posi
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

Originally Posted by 1991_RS
Speaking of that, does the width cause any issues when swapping?
Not causing any issues with me. I mean, yeah the wheels do stick out a bit on each side, but it doesn't look bad to me, I like it. The ONLY time I have issues is when I'm loaded down with luggage, etc. - like when wife and I go to Carlisle or something and I've got a carload of stuff - but that's because I'm also lowered 1 inch. This year I'm installing airbags in the coil springs so that I can reduce the travel of the spring a bit. But until then, I just have to take it easy on bumps on the rare occasion that I'm loaded like that.

Sorry I'm not more help - it's been a lifetime ago since I had rear drums and I'm too senile to remember!
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Old Mar 22, 2011 | 12:45 AM
  #10  
ASE doc's Avatar
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From: Aurora, OR
Car: 87 IROC Z28
Engine: 355 cid TPI
Transmission: Custom Built 700R4 w/3,500 stall
Axle/Gears: QP fab 9" 3.70 Truetrac
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

The white spring goes from shoe to shoe. The picture in your link is missing the small spring I referred to above. The spring goes ove the square stem you see extending from the actuator towrds the back of the rear(left) shoe. The spring applies pressure between the actuator and shoe. Without it the auto adjuster wont work.
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Old Mar 24, 2011 | 03:16 PM
  #11  
1991_RS's Avatar
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Joined: Feb 2011
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From: West Michigan
Car: 1989 Formula Firebird
Engine: Swapped 350 TPI speed density
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 (soon to be 3.42)
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

Originally Posted by ASE doc
The white spring goes from shoe to shoe. The picture in your link is missing the small spring I referred to above. The spring goes ove the square stem you see extending from the actuator towrds the back of the rear(left) shoe. The spring applies pressure between the actuator and shoe. Without it the auto adjuster wont work.
I was thinking the same thing. I checked my springs that I replaced and it must have been missing there, too. The shoes were still quite full when we replaced them, probably due to no adjustment, but since we already had the parts and didn't know the quality of the old ones, we replaced them anyway.

I'll have to get the springs and add them.
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Old Mar 25, 2011 | 10:02 AM
  #12  
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Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Aurora, OR
Car: 87 IROC Z28
Engine: 355 cid TPI
Transmission: Custom Built 700R4 w/3,500 stall
Axle/Gears: QP fab 9" 3.70 Truetrac
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

Yeah, that spring, along with the speader bar sprinc, is not included in the standard hardware kit. There is a parking brake, auto adjuster hardware kit available that includes those springs, the actuator and the adjuster.
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Old Apr 5, 2011 | 08:55 AM
  #13  
1991_RS's Avatar
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Joined: Feb 2011
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From: West Michigan
Car: 1989 Formula Firebird
Engine: Swapped 350 TPI speed density
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 (soon to be 3.42)
Re: Drum Brakes - Adjuster actuator lever loose

Originally Posted by ASE doc
Yeah, that spring, along with the speader bar sprinc, is not included in the standard hardware kit. There is a parking brake, auto adjuster hardware kit available that includes those springs, the actuator and the adjuster.

Did finally get the brakes working correctly after adding the spring you mentioned (one on the square tab). Luckily, I know a mechanic who happened to have some that would work.
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