ownor

iTrader: (5)

Hey there guys,

I know I know, I probably should just change over to something like PBRs or LS1 setup for the rear... but right now I'm using what I have until the required comes in And with the EBC RedStuff the stopping power is actually not that bad!

So my setup is: 89 Formula, but it has a 87 GTA 9 bolt rearend with the Delco-Moraine calipers. eBrake cables are like 2 years old and were ordered for the 87.
Problem: After changing over to RedStuff pads last summer, apparently my ebrake never really worked Just went to inspection last week and found that out.. I got a nice equal 2 kN braking on right and left rear by the pedal, but 0 - nothing, nada, zero - effect from the ebrake ^^

I haven't got under there yet but will do in the next couple days. Can anybody give me some hints for adjusting this? The ebrake worked so-so when I swapped in the rearend but somehow now with the new pads it doesn't.
How do you guys go about setting up the right tension on the cables? I need to have good and equal (left right) grab to satisfy inspection ~~

Thanks in advance for any input!

ownor

iTrader: (5)

come on, nobody on adjusting the ebrake on these brakes?
i found this here
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...729-post5.html
and was wondering if that also applied to my 87 year delco-moraines...? will prolly give it a try tonight.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

i can't quite work this out i readjusted the levers with the method described in the the link from my last post. the levers will actuate the ebrake now at about 1/3 or maybe 1/2 of their full travel, but still when i pull the ebrake it doesnt really grab or let's say it doesnt slow down much. i can feel that rotating the rotor with my hands is harder but obviously not enough.
do you tighten the adjuster so that the levers are just slightly off the caliper stops? i get quite some drag when i do that..
also left and right are quite different.. how much drag with the ebrake not pulled is okay?

kissedin

Got a 82 trans am with rear disc brakes (delco-moraine) with the same problem. Watching your thread in search for answears.

kissedin

Done some research on this. My shop manual says that you should adjust the brake cable.

The other possible solution I found in this thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/brak...-i-adjust.html

Quote:
If I don't get mine to work properly, can I buy new calipers for an 89 and use them on my 88 GTA? Or if I get a pair of remanufactured calipers for an 88, will they have the problem solved?

In your case you can do 2 things: install the GM recall kit for those calipers or purchase rebuilt ones that may have the fix already installed. As you know, the '88 and '89 calipers are different. The place you got your pads (that won't fit your car) probably gave you the performance (IE-PBR) pads, and so you had to get those for a "Firebird" implying "not performance". Search for "recall kit" and user "Apeiron" in this forum and you should be able to pull up the part number.

Any comments on this would be appreciated.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

I've got an 87 rear with similar issues, Hoping to figure it out this weekend.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

well since i busted off the end stop of one of my ebrake cables i'm back to square 1 now and won't have inspection as soon as planned ~~ gonna read the rest in the next days then, thanks for posting up!

btw, motto of the day:
chuck norris once bought an early J65 thirdgen. he got the rear brakes working.

edit: ok so how does the shop manual describe the ebrake adjusting procedure? i only have a 89 shop manual, the 84 is at my buddy's some hours away from me.
i also think that my ebrake cables were different lengths and the stops were different length/form, too. one was a dorman one a raybestos.
on that recall kit, the link i posted implies you can get away with no recall kit by resetting the lever yourself. but i guess that wouldn't be a consistent fix on pad wear over time either.
changing to other rear brakes like pbr or ls1 prolly is the best solution but see post#1.

naf

iTrader: (7)

Part Number: 18019028 from GM Parts Direct, listed as "Actuator" and included parts for both rear calipers, pistons, springs, seals, etc.

These brakes self-adjust by operation of the parking brake, IF the recall kit has been installed. Do not assume a reman caliper will include the upgraded components required.

If your brakes work hydraulically, tighten your cables at the adjustment point above the driveshaft in the trans tunnel.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

nice heads-up, thanks. i take it that's the recall kit there for that p/n?
my brakes are quite good hydraulically, but tightening the cables didnt make the ebrake work really. also they were just so un-equal left/right. i was trying to move the wheel by hand, fully pulled ebrake lever would make right blocked pretty good but could still spin the left wheel, although a little hard.
i just ordered 2 new ac delco cables (at rockauto... 50$ international shipping for 30$ worth of parts, yay -.-) because i suspect the ones i had were not exactly the correct lengths since they came from different manufacturers. as said i busted on of the cables now anyways while trying to tighten the adjuster.

how do you go about the adjuster in the trans tunnel, tighten it to which point?

naf

iTrader: (7)

I tighten mine until I get no more travel of the ebrake handle at about 3/4 of the way up. There's probably a more definitive, technical method.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

no more travel as in, you can't move it further up then 3/4?? i would imagine the ebrake putting quite some drag torque on the rotors, when not applied, then.

naf

iTrader: (7)

Mine didn't. I have the recall kit installed which shouldn't make a difference, but..

Try it and see.

kissedin

This is a picture from my 82 shop manual (gm)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N...-06-16%2B-%2B1

I noticed that the cable to driver's side brake on my car was not in it's designated seating. Therefore the brakes got an unequal "strain". My brakes seem to work fine now. Will se if the car authorities here in sweden agree tomorrow.

kissedin

My car passed the goverment's test today! So happy! The inspector said it was "okay, but not more." Guess that's the case with all delco moraine rear disc brakes.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

nice job so that's the ticket to a great summer season then!
i havent messed with it since busting off the end stop off the left cable. been driving it all the same heh. i got new ac delco front, left and right rear cable now to install when i get time.. how did you adjust yours?

kissedin

I adjusted them as tight as possible. There is no slack on them whatsoever. There is tension from the first "click". But there is no drag when the handbrake is fully released.

With this setup the inspector managed to obtain an approved result. But only when the he pulled the handbrake all the way up.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

i see. well my big problem with the adjustment was that i would have quite some tension on the cables with the handbrake lever at rest, and so a little idle drag too, but still slightly too less brake force in order to block the wheels (well the left side at least) so that i cant turn it with my hands.. do you happen to have a reading kiloNewton as for the brake force? my buddy said he barely passed with his 84 on about 0.7 & 0.5 kN. no idea if that could be rotated by hand tho.

kissedin

I'm afraid that i never got the numbers (It says 1,5 on my test-papers, but that might as well be my rear brakes since they had to test them in order for the test equipment to go in to hand-brake-mode). But one thing is for sure: You would not be able to move the wheels by hand.

I tested my car by pulling the handbrake and then gave some gas on D – my car reluctantly began to move forward. I also tried them by locking the car when rolling in N on a estimated 7% slope: it stopped (in like 0,5 meters).

Is the lever moving freely back to it's position when you release the handbrake? If not, try to lubricate the arm. As I have understood, the handbrake self adjusts so that there is no drag.

If your lever does not go all the way back, the brakes will self adjust to the "no drag"-position to far ahead, resulting in that your span will be to small in order for you to work up enough tension to lock the brakes.

Also, are the cables in their designated seating in the transmission tunnel?

ownor

iTrader: (5)

Yeah well my rear brakes were like 2.0 and 2.1 kN with the EBC RedStuff but I suspect that these high numbers came from the fact that I'm still using the drum brake valve (I actually like the resulting brake bias). Anyways, the right side couldn't be moved by hand at all and was really tight, and also would only tremble when engaging D but not move. All those tests were with the wheels up in the air. Basically sounds like good testing like you did it.
Btw do you have a (working) LSD?

The lever you're referring to is the handbrake interior lever now or the arm on the caliper? They mention somewhere (think Haynes manual) that there's some kind of anti-friction seal or washer between the lever and the caliper to reduce binding.. I lubricated these with silicon spray to make sure it doesn't bind. But i think the self adjust mechanism not working is more due to the problem for which the recall kit was issued.

Can you try to rephrase that for me, I'm not sure I get the right sense out of it Thanks for your infos!

And yes the cables are correctly in the seating on the adjuster. BUT I think the adjuster or let's say the bolt or threaded piece that is connected to the front cable is actually slightly bent Oo So I'm sure there will be some disturbance by that as well!

kissedin

My lsd is working yes.

It was the inspector who gave me a tip about the self adjusting mechanism. He meant that the handbrake will adjust itself so that there is no drag. This was plausible in my case since the lever didn't go all the way back on drivers side caliper. Therefore the span of my lever was reduced.

This was only his theory though, he suggested that i should lubricate the lever in order for it to go fully back when released.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

Yeah sounds good about the lubrication and all but as per the link i posted further up there was a recall issue with this self adjusting mechanism, so without the recall kit parts installed it will probably not adjust itself correctly, or so i would think.
So when just coasting in N you can't hear any drag on the rear brakes or feel drag on the wheels when rotating them with the rear up in the air. Interesting. It always seemed to me that in this situation there's no way to get them to establish proper braking torque with the handbrake lever fully pulled.

naf

iTrader: (7)

Installing the recall kit is paramount to proper function. I'm sure yours isn't in terribly bad shape but it's not unusual to find these calipers frozen and the rotors rusted from lack of function over the years.

After installing the kit you should exercise the parking brake religiously to keep them adjusted, so parking brake action is just as important.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

Yeah well I guess so. What years is that recall kit applicable to, IOW, are there any years that are not affected by this after they caught the mistake? Rotor-, pad- and caliper-wise though my rear brakes are in pretty good shape, it's just the ebrake actuation that doesn't work really well.
After rereading this all as said I'm gonna change all the cables front and rear and then adjust them as described in the 82 manual that kissedin posted - with the levers still on the stops and all slack removed. Will report back then.
But I guess this only really works if the self-adjustment is working, right?
naf: What do you think of the method described here: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...729-post5.html

kissedin

Keep us updated! I think many future delco-moraine people will be grateful if you took some pictures.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

hmm yeah i might snap some pics, why not.. not gonna be before next week tho till i get around

naf

iTrader: (7)

That method may work to get them initially adjusted but if the self adjusting mechanism has failed they will eventually wear down to no function.

My understanding is that the 'kit' is applicable to all years of the cast iron calipers.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

alright, yeah that's what i thought. and prolly no change during 87/88 towards end of life cycle on these rear brakes.. but this fix should still good enough to pass the 2-year inspection and i dont plan on still having the delco-moraines for the next inspection in 2015 then anyways

z 28 jari

iTrader: (1)

I know,old thread,but this is good video how to adjust e-brake:

Airwolfe

iTrader: (1)

The best thing to do with Delco-Moraine rear disc brakes is throw them in the trash where they belong. Rear drum brakes is miles ahead of D-M rear discs.