I am thinking about using 4th gen door panels and was wondering would the speakers sound better in the door or a set of kick panel speakers? if kicks would sound better I might just stay with the 3rd gen door panels since from what I have seen the 4th gen panels are a pita to get to fit decent with the 3rd gen dash (well at all for that matter). I would think the door would be a better spot but alot of you guys have more experience than me. I like Jim's kick panels design but I would also love to have the foot room as long as it will sound as good or better with the door speakers.

 

Kicks, properly aimed, of course.

You don't need to swap an entire door panel to get speakers in the doors, that seems counter productive to me.

You can form, build-outs to support, mount and enclose the speaker.

 

well I kinda like how they look too. I like the foot room also. seems like it would be a little better with the door panels to me though because of having a shorter distance to your ears. less time for distortion. the aiming is one thing the kicks definitely have over the door panels though. But having a vert I think the doors would be better just being mounted higher.

 

kicks ...

 

I can tell you're pretty wet behind thears when it comes to audio.....

The farther away you have the speakers the better, in an automotive environment, this is because the farther forward you push the speakers, the more equadistant the left and right channels become, making for better imaging (let to rigt soundstage) and linearity through out the frequency responce, with a better ceneter image. Center image should be centered in the middle of the car, not on the driver or the passenger.

Distortion can not be created after the sound has "left" the speaker. Distortion is created in an electrical form only (just think of a speaker as electrical, even though there are some physical properties that could cause distortion).
The distortion comes from the signal being clipped, or changed from the original, or the speaker being over driven, and causing flex and non-linarity in the cone movement. No distotion can occur once the sound wave has been produced.

Don't confuse "closer" with "better". Having a vert is just another reason I would choose the kicks. You can angle them better for more on axis listening, whihc is very difficult to do in a door, and the foot well, can also become part of the speaker or how it reactes to the environment around it. Without getting into some deep acoustic theory, with the speaker placed right, the foot weel, lower dash, and even door panels can become a quasi horn, to help bring the sound out, and more evenly spread across the sound plane. This mounting scheme, when done right can actually make the speaker react more effciant than it would be placed on a flat board (or door panel), making better use of the signal being fed into it.

 

definitely right about wet behind the ears. I like building engines alot better than audio. when I was talking about distortion I was talking mainly about the surrounding noise distorting the sound after it is out. third gen vert are as far away from sealed as you can get. With the newer model verts in any car line they are far superior with getting most of the road noise and outside noise in general out. I understand about the imaging aspect but being farther away also makes the volume have to go up which leads to clipping because of the extra power needed to get the same volume. that is why I thought the doors would be better. I am not knocking anything you say because it definitely sounds like you know more than I do when it comes to audio. this is just my theory on it. I am probably going to go with what you say though and just do kicks. is there anyone on here making them? I know Jim was but I don't think he is right now.

 

six_shooter is corect....you don't want to elevate the speaker. Keep them down low.

Any GOOD shop can make a decent kick panel to house speakers. Don't worry about trying to angle the speakers. Qlogic panels are fine but you sacrifice leg room.

Buy a decent sounding set of speakers and enjoy.........

 

I will have to check around I don't think there is anyplace close to my sh*tty town that makes them. Another question should I use the kicks for all the front imaging or should I use a midbass and still use dash speakers also?

 

id delete the dash speakers if your going to run components/tweets in the kicks.. and dont buy qlogic kickpanels.. poor build quality and they dont fit right. do a search on them, nobody on the board liked them

 

I definitely know about the q logic crap. too bad great price but not if they don't work right.

 

Yep, I do this stuff for a living.

So what you are really woried about is not "distortion", it's the noise floor.

Noise Floor: The amount of saound measured most commonly in Dba, of ambiant noise.

True you may have to turn the sound up a little to get the same level of sound at your ears, but the difference is not much, especially if your speakers are more on axis, like I had suggested. Using a good amplifier is also a must in any 'vert, just due to the noise floor being higher than in a similar hard top car. Using a higher quality amp, and one that usually has a bit more power, will help keep you out of clipping.

 

I normally use alpine for everything. I always like the brands of everything to match, and I already have my head unit. do you make kicks Shooter? I also want a sub box for the trunk but I will more than likely do that but the kicks look a little to tricky for me.

 

I've seen really good kick panels made out of MDF and shaped/molded to incorporate the speaker angle.

Personally I never had an issue with my qlogics. I ran them in my IASCA car for a few years. I did however reinforce and soundproof the back of the panel extensively.

 

biggest thing I didn't like is that they don't exactly match or replace the original.