hello all, i got my car painted last week so before i sent it off i took out my audio equipment, EI subs, amp, and capacitor, well now i cant figure out how to hook up the cap again, i just bypassed it for the moment so my ground and power are at my amp but i want my cap back in to save my battery and alturnator, if i believe im right its power to the positive, then i have to branch off of that to my amp so its got power, then negative is ground, then go from that ground to my amp?

EDIT: i use to have a manual but over the winter a mouse decided to take refuge into my garage and got into my tool box and chewed on it so i cant look at that.

 

yes, you put your positive into your cap, then from the positive on the cap run the wire to the amp pos. same thing with the ground.run it into the cap, then from there to the amp.

 

You need to pre-charge your cap first. Read the caution in this link.

http://www.caraudiohelp.com/car_audi...stallation.htm

 

Don't mix the positive and the negative.. DC capacitors don't like that, and tend to have explosive reactions..

 

A cap won't "save your battery or alternator". They are a waste of money.

Sell the cap and put the money towards doing the "Big 3" instead.

If you "need" a cap, then you have other issues that need to be resolved.

 

already charged :]

 

Please justify this statement.

 

i just ignore those statments, i believe and trust in them, im only running an 800 watt pioneer mono amp with 2 12" sony xplode 1300 watt subs, im good on just the capacitor and not the big 3

 

Having once had more money invested in my stereo than the car was worth I know the value of components. Having the entire electrical system dim every time the bass notes hit, I know what a good capacitor can do for you. You should at least consider a 14v voltage regulator. A solid 14v will make your cars electronics burden easier.

 

whats that?

 

You wire the inputs to the cars battery, then the outputs to the stereo equipment. It lets you run your amplifiers at a higher voltage which keeps them for starving for power.

 

Just read up on the Capacitor section.
http://www.bcae1.com/


A Cap won't prevent "dimming". It is a band aid solution at best. Remember that a cap is designed for rapid discharge and recharge. If your electrical system (including wiring and alternator) and your battery cannot handle the requirements of the amp(s) and provide enough power to sufficiently recharge the cap, you will get dimming. If your electrical and battery are up to the task, why the need for a cap?

While a cap acts like a shock absorber for power requirements, its role is very limited. Also, caps have not been proven to add any audible difference.

 

Having been a car audio installer for closing in on 2 decades, I have used and still use stiffening capacitors, in many of my installations. I don't use them to make up for an electrical system that is not providing enough power to start with.

I agree that the big 3 should be done, but you may also need to go deeper and replace the alternator, among other supporting components, depending on how much you are taxing the electrical system.

I have in many cases, in vehicles that did not have electrical problems as in dimming head lights, and such, and have heard improvements in sound by adding a stiffening capacitor almost all of the time. There was only one system that I can recall that I didn't hear an obvious difference in sound.

I find most of the time when people say they are a waste of money, they don't fully understand the role of what a stiffening capacitor does for a power supply in an amplifier, especially in a vehicle that will have many changing conditions, both electrically and environmentally.

 

How exactly does a cap improve the "sound" of a speaker? Quality, loudness or both?

I also find it rather interesting that world champions don't use caps (at least none that I know or heard of). If they were that good I would think they would be installed in many competition vehicles.

 

Your electrical can handle 90% of the power needed. Its the really hard notes that need a bit of help from a cap. Sure, you can handle the situation with 2 alternators and 3 batteries, but who wants to add all that nonsense when a cap will do the job?

 

*sigh*

Funny, I've seen many world winning vehicles use stiffening caps.

What's one of the most important things that an amplifier needs to operate correctly or effectively?

The answer is a good solid power supply.

When an amplifier has a solid power supply, flattening out the ripples in supply AND filtering out AC ripple that is also on the power line, the amp can then consistently perform it's job, while reducing power consumed, which also helps reduce the heat created by the by amplifier, which helps improve sound. As I have already said, stiffening caps are not meant to make up for a poor electrical system, but are used to help control and flatten out the power supply, making the supply, for all intents and purposes, stronger, hence the name stiffening capacitor.

I was on that "caps are a waste of money band wagon" for a short time as well, but then did more research and hands on testing and found them to be useful. So I will continue to use them.

 

A rather simplistic answer and inaccurate. If you need 3 batteries to provide sufficient power to a system, then a cap will NOT replace that.

If what you say is true, then a second battery will also reduce amplifier heat.
Amps create heat, and the amount of heat an amp generates depends on many factors not just adding a cap or battery.

A cap may make the power supply stronger but its effects are inaudible. Simple as that.


OP - If you are happy with the system you have and like having a cap, that's all that matters.

 

A capacitor stores up an electrical charge. Once it reaches capacity it just trades off. Meaning as some current flows out, more flows in to replace it. In car audio installations they are used to provide a short temporary burst of extra current when more demand is placed on the amps so they don't put an excess draw on the cars electrical system. Basically in a nut shell, to help smooth out the current draw to help prevent things like dimming lights, etc.

 

I was exaturating for effect.

 

*sigh*

A battery has much different discharge properties than a capacitor does, therefore, a second battery would NOT have the same effect as a stiffening capacitor and in many cases make charge problems worse, since there would be more load on the alternator, again something I have witnessed.

Yes, there are many factors to why an amplifier creates heat, but having a stronger or higher voltage charging system will reduce the overall heat generated by the amplifier, since it does not have to work as hard. This is fact.

An amplifier that runs cooler, also has in most cases less audible distortion or colouring of the sound, this is audible. Therefore having a more solid charging system, especially one that uses a stiffening capacitor, will have a better overall sound, usually referred to as "cleaner". This is fact.

 

my amps never been hot? and iv ran it for almost an hour, ill see tomorrow since im taking a 2 hours one way trip so ill be able to see then

 

A cap is designed for rapid discharge and then recharge. The charging system needs to be up to the task. This is where a good alternator and proper grounding comes into play.

Proper grounding (like the Big 3) will also create a higher voltage. The alternator which is designed to continuously charge the electrical system, also comes into play more than a cap. I can hook up batteries to run the car at 16v. While getting more power the amps will NOT be cooler.

By this logic a Class D amp will have a cleaner sound as it runs cooler. This is a matter of opinion not a fact.

Many amps tend to have a "warm" sound (DLS comes to mind). The audible difference is more a matter of who makes the amp and components rather than running a cap or not. Run the exact same system in two cars but one does not use a cap and people won't hear a difference. This is fact.

I find it funny that you advocate the use of a cap and dismiss the Big 3 or adding a second battery for more or reserve power. I guess you need to sell caps to the customers.

I'm also on DIYMA, the major consensus is that caps are not useful. If people feel they need a cap and feel they are getting value, that's all that matters.

 

You really need to re-read my replies.

I never dismissed the "big 3", in fact I suggested to use it in combination with a capacitor.

Ok, run the same system in the same car, with and without the cap and most people will hear a difference. This "take two cars" BS has way too many variables. It's just a poor argument at best.

You need to go back and learn the basics of electrical components and heat generation. The readers digest version is, an electrical component, that is supplied with a higher voltage, but doing the same amount of work (measured in watts, BTW), will run cooler than the same component supplied with less voltage, doing the same amount of work. It basically boils down to the current draw (amperes), this is simple Ohm's law.

In your poorly thought out rebuttle above, you mentioned running higher voltage and getting more power out of an amplifier. Yes, this can be done, but is not at all, what I was suggesting, I was suggesting a more stable power supply, which means a higher voltage or higher average voltage input to the amplifier, for the same power output, said amplifier will run cooler than if there is less voltage or less average voltage at the amplifier input. Again, learn Ohm's law.

The more you speak the less I can see you understand about electronics and their functions.

A second battery is only good for extending key off system listening time, but does nothing to help while the engine is running, and as I have already said can make the overall charge situation worse, since the battery creates a pretty significant load on a charging system, where as a stiffening capacitor does not, again due to the different charger and discharge characteristics.

If DIYMA is the site I'm thinking it is, there are many "theories" on that site that have been heavily debunked and proven wrong many times over, which is why I don't generally go on any car audio forums. There are too many people that think they know, when they don't. I'll mention it again, I've been working with car audio, both personally and professionally for over 2 decades, I've seen trends come and go, and I've done a lot of research on many aspects of car audio, I've jumped on and off band wagons. I practice what I preach, and I have reasons for doing so.

In short (pun :P) a stiffening capacitor will never hinder the performance of a system, it can only help. I use them, in most of my installations. The only times I haven't, have been when I didn't have room for one, and didn't feel like rebuilding an install, or changing things to install one at that point.

 

Whatever you say six shooter. Keep selling those capacitors to your customers.

Just remember that DIYMA is also where industry insiders and people like you and me can talk to reps and technicians from companies like Hybrid Audio, JBL, Image Dynamics, etc and learn from them.

 

Of course it is a band-aide if it was really required all the time then maybe the amplifier manufactures should be putting them INSIDE the amp!

In some cases (maybe many) it will help BTW, but at the same time in some cases it is just more money.

Edit:
To be clear I am referring to the large caps (~1f) that people are adding on not caps in general....

 

I run a 4.0 farad capacitor (overkill--I know!) in my boat along with 3 marine batteries, 2 amps and 8 speakers plus 2 subs. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the capacitor does make a difference in providing outstanding power for the amps which means crystal clear sound to all speakers. I get compliments from people everytime Im out! I wouldnt dream of running my system without one.