I have a bunch of questions about the HO 350 Camaro Conversion kit:

Has anyone bought this(how much did you pay for it)?
Is it worth the money?
Will it work with a 1987 305 4bbl firebird?
Is it really emissions legal?

 

Have you really located one? Word is they've stopped producing them, so it will have to be from remaining dealer stock.

I haven't done it myself, but researched it enough to give a fair response, I think.

Worth it? That's an individual question only you can answer. You should be able to put together the same things for less money, equal or better power (headers instead of exhaust manifolds, for instance).

It'll work on an '87 Firebird as long as the car was equiped from the factory with a carb and auto tranny.

It really is emissions-legal if the conditions of the above paragraph are met and is installed by the book.

 

You can defenitly get the same conversion parts for less money aftermarket, and build it better as well as to your specs, but the catch point is emissions legal. In my book (though it is not the law...) if it passes emissions and no one else cares, its legal. I have never had to go through emissions, so anything goes on my car as long as its loud and produces horsepower, or is good for asthetics. Its up to you although you might end up paying alot more for the "emissions legal" tag.

 

The "kit" was basically the ZZ4 motor, a set of L69 manifolds and the Y-pipe and so on to go with it, a calibration kit for the carb, and the HO dual-snorkel air cleaner. Like was said, it was 50-state legal when installed according to the instructions, which were only for auto trans; and AFAIK it has been discontinued.

I've never seen one installed, but I would have to expect it would run pretty good, just looking at what it's made up of. But it was a whole lot of money, too much really for the market to bear for the level of performance that it offered.

 

Actually, it was the dual-cat setup.

 

five7kid and rb83L69 are correct, GM has disco'd the part. However, I checked at gmpartsdirect.com and sdpc within the past few months and they still had some in stock.

 

What would be another way to get to approx 300-330hp/300-360ft-lbs with a carb and be emissions legal for an 87 firebird?

 

350-ish CID engine with 9.5-10:1 compression ratio (iron and aluminum heads, respectively).

Good-flowing heads, such as ported L98 (iron or aluminum), World S/R Torquers, or Pro-Lightning.

ZZ4-like cam. Can be a ZZ4 take-off (if roller), or a computer-compatible unit from Crane or Comp with similar lift/duration.

Higher-stall torque converter to help the engine get into the cam powerband.

GMPP or Weiand Action+ intake manifold.

Hooker 2055 headers (or SLP headers).

3" high-flow cat and cat-back.

Transgo shift kit, Vette servo, relief valve from Probuilt Auto.

Poly bushings all around.

Subframe connectors.

Keep the A.I.R. system, all the sensors. Rejet the secondaries (DR rods & B hanger seem to work well). A chip from Jet Performance wouldn't hurt.

You're there. Will pass emissions visual inspection and sniffer with ease.

 

I put a 300hp GM crate motor in my car(before the vortech motor came out). Its the same motor as the Vortech 330hp but different heads. I installed the computer and prom from the ZZ4 kit, Edelbrock headers, dual snorkel, carb reworked from the Carb Shop. The car ran a best of 14.06 in the 1/4 @98mph. If I had 3.23 or 3.42 gears it would have run a little faster cause it ran otta breath toward the end of the 1/4 mile with my 3.73's. I had this setup since 1994 and it passed the sniffer test every 2 years with out a cat or air.

 

firewrks, here in metro Atl Georgia area the only "emissions legal" thing they care about is that it passes the sniffer (a fairly tough dyno emissions test) and has a catalytic converter on it. They do not look for/check anything else like EGR, or a smog pump, etc.

My Vortec headed 350 passes with ease with a Catco 3" cat being the only emissions device on the car. You have to have the thing in good tune obviously though (lean her out...). I had a couple problems with it running rich and failing just last month, but I got her back in tune and blew numbers low enough to suprise most of the workers in the place, just like it did the year before... And this is with a carb setup as well...

I'm right over in Lilburn fairly close to you as well. You should be able to pass easily with any fairly decent motor, especially if you go to the trouble of keeping the EGR and stuff.

My Setup:
Vortec heads, around 9.8:1 compression (at least according to my calcs)
CompCams XE262 cam (218/224 @.050, .462/.469 lift)
Performer RPM intake, Holley 750 vac secondary carb
Edelbrock TES headers (air tubes capped off), Catco 3" cat, Hooker catback

Runs strong, and like I said provided it is tuned properly it passes the emissions here with ease.

 

Ray87Z: Could I get more detailed info of your setup. Your setup sounds like most what I should do. Especially for an 87' carb'd firebird in Atlanta metro area. If you want to talk off the forum, my email is firewrks@ee.pdx.edu

 

I just have your run of the mill Vortec headed 350 setup.

Was originally a 265hp, 350 crate engine. I ripped the heads and cam outta that and sold them, and put on the L31 Vortec heads (which upped the compression vs the original heads' 76cc chambers) and threw in a hotter CompCams XE262 cam. Along with a matching Performer RPM intake for Vortec heads.

You could replicate a similar setup for pretty cheap. If you haven't read up on these heads I suggest you do so. Great performers with a mild cam for only like $425 new from GM for the pair these days. Or if you're looking for a crate engine, GM offers a 330hp Vortec headed crate engine now (has a kinda weak cam so you could improve on that power...). I believe they sell a standard long block crate engine version, and then a deluxe version that has nearly everything you need to get it running. Check out www.sdpc2000.com or some of the other GM perf parts dealers if you haven't.

My website has the whole specs on my particular engine setup (car needs paint, so don't point and laugh at the pics, lol) www.inter-scape.com/ray

Here's a scan of my emissions sheet from last month too BTW: www.inter-scape.com/ray/stuff/emissions.jpg

 

I tried to price some of your items. Do these numbers sound right? Also what is an L31? I know Vortec is a type of head but is it specific to an L31?

Item Price
350 4 - Bolt Main L31 Shortblock 1499.95
L31 64cc Vortec heads 477.50
CompCams XE262 Cam (218/224 @.050 - .462/.469) 479.90
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake 173.95
Holley 3310 750cfm Vac Secondary Carburetor 265.95
MSD Pro-Billet HEI Destributor 329.95
Edelbrock 1 5/8" TES Exhuast Headers 359.00
Catco 3" High Flow Catalytic Converter 280.39
Hooker 3" Cat-back Exhaust 262.95

Total = 4129.54

 

I don't know how good of a deal that shortblock is, seems kinda high (I got a longblock for that and sold the heads and reused the cam elsewhere...) The L31 is just the designation for the Vortec heads. I'm not sure on the specs of that short block (wasn't aware they had a L31 block...) I think it may be the same block as in the crate engine below, in which case it seems slight cheaper to go with the whole crate engine... I was only talking about the heads. If you're going to build this motor yourself I think you can get a different shortblock for a little less. You could also go with a rebuilt shortblock from a few vendors for alot cheaper, just an idea...

Also, I paid like a hundred and something for the XE262 cam (flat tappet hyrdaulic, not a roller. maybe you priced a roller, major rip off in either case for nearly $500...). Also, the Catco cat was $110 from Summit, $280 is way too high. You could shave another $100 by buying a slightly less expensive distributor also...

I think one of your best bets is probably the 350 HO Deluxe crate engine I mentioned. It's around $3300, comes with the Vortec heads, a GM dual plane intake, carb, HEI distributor, flexplate for an auto tranny, harmonic balancer, and water pump, etc. All assembled and ready to go. All you'd need to add is exhaust I believe. The cam that comes in it is decent on the duration, a little low on the lift side but it will still make power. That motor is rated at 330hp... http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=120&pid=462

On the other hand, building it yourself you could go slightly hotter on the cam, slightly better intake, etc. But it adds up and this crate comes with all the little goodies you didn't budget for like the harmonic balancer, flexplate, water pump, etc...

Don't just go with my recommendation though, ask around. May be a better deal I've overlooked... You'll be able to pass the emissions test with most any streetable setup here, provided you run a cat and it's in good tune. You really don't need to worry that much about it here...

A couple of people on this board are running that exact 350 HO crate motor, try making another post to get some more opinions on it.

 

Chevy high performance had an article 2 months ago with an emission legal engine making 386 hp with the f body y pipe installed without a cat. They havnt printed the test results yet.