I couldnt figure out a better place to post this, so im posting it here.


I have a basically stock LG4 305 in my 87 camaro other than
Edelbrock intake manifold
open element filter
holley replacement CCC Q-jet
Full exhaust headers back

I was planning on swapping to a 350, but thats not going to happen for a while so im looking for a cheaper performance upgrade. So I am going to look into doing a cam swap, but I know nothing aboout cams, So what would be a decent cam for my application with a good idle maybe louder than now, but will give me some more HP and torque? Also what kinda gains wuld you estimate with it

 

Since it is an '87, it should have roller lifters. The cam is going to be a little more expensive, but you don't have to buy new lifters, and it's a better setup. I assume you have an automatic transmission with stock stall converter, and you don't want to pull the heads to have machining done to increase valve lift capability.

Given those assumptions:

Something along the lines of a Crane 2030 Compucam, p/n 104221, or 2031 p/n 104225, would fit the bill. The Comp Xtreme Energy XR line of similar duration & lift would also do well.

A dual snorkel air cleaner would give a little better driveability than the open element.

As for gains - you'll think it's a completely different car.

 

Ok awesome thats what I want to hear. Ho much labor do you think is involved in having it swapped?

 

Do you mean for you to do it, or what a shop would charge for labor to do it?

 

Like for a shop to do it.

Also what do you think of this cam http://store.summitracing.com/partde...8+&appfilter=1 would it work??? I found a deal on a new one locally thats why I ask

 

ouch!!! way too much.... I would say around 800-1000 bucks, just get a NOS kit and do it yourself, and it will also work just fine on any motor you go to next. Maybe get a WB02 and get dirty with tunning it perfect. Either one will be cheaper for installing, mpg, and great for you cars future. A good tuner is worth alot more then a cam sway that cost you around 1300 bucks.

<just to clear things up a little>
A NOS or NX kit run about 500-700 (bottle fulls around 25-35per fill) and gas milage will remain the same when not on it. And I don't care who you are. ANYONE can install one. TAKE your time read the directions carefully, and then read them again, have a friend read them to you while you are doing it.
and this can be used on any engine combo...

WBO2 with only be 200-400 depending on the one you choose, and maybe 20-40 buck haveing an exhaust shop weld the bung on for the sensor. Then let the tuning begin, you could possibly gain just as much power from a well tuned engine, and learn an ungodley amount of knowledge about engines in general, and once again can be used on any engine combo....


When a budget counts, spend it only once......

 

\

Thinks for your advise, but im not putting nos on a street car. and what is a WBO2 exactly?

 

That's a flat tappet cam. You'd need new lifters and pushrods in order to use it. I wouldn't downgrade like that when you've already got a superior type of cam.
Wide band oxygen sensor.

I wouldn't do nitrous, either. You want street performance, not track performance. Do the cam yourself.

 

How hard of a job is it to do, How long does it usually take? im not the most mechanically inclined even though I know a thing or two.


What does a WB02 do???

 

A wide band measures you air/fuel ratio in a wider accuracy range then a Narrow band oxygen sensor,anywhere from a 9/1 to 18/1 range, instead of just around 14.7/1.

***just incase you don't know, that is how much fuel is mix with *X* amount of air that is comming in the carb/efi

This is the one of the best ways to tune, any engine. The fact that you are asking what it is, means I would strongly, strongly recommend learning more about tuning before going with a new cam. After the cam you will really need to tune alot.

Points to learn would be, in your case...

(your carb) tuning, idle, accel, pump shot, secondarys... Just learn asmuch about you carb as you can in the field of adjustments and what they do.

(your distributer) advancing springs, base timing, total timing

once you have a decent grasp of these to major tuning parts, you will really see what i mean about a WBO2 be a very wise (and cheap) choice to go with at your level of exsperience, (and don't get me wrong, I wasn't born with this information either).

These boards are awesome, and full of info. This probably will be your main source of info, but there are all kinds of books, friends are sometimes a good help. And of course your own experamenting(*tuning*).

I garuntee that if you learn a thing or two about tuning and get the right tools (WBO2) You will gain more power, with alot less money. I have seen alot of guy spending way too much on parts and never tune it in and they lose all kinds or power. once that happens they loose faith in there car and sell it. With what you already have I would guess you have 50hp to 75hp just waiting to be unleashed....

 

It's a computer command control carb. You don't need a WBO2, you just let the computer system to its thing. No advance springs, you do set base timing, the adjustments are all per the book as related in the sticky in the top section of this forum.

Changing a cam requires removing the intake manifold and the stuff from the front of the engine. You also need to remove the radiator and get the air conditioning condensor out of the way so the cam will come out all the way from the front of the engine. The oil pan needs to be loosened so the front cover will come off. There are a lot of details, and things to be removed and replaced, but it is still fairly straight forward and well documented in most available shop manuals. I'm not sure what the shop rate would be for this job, I suspect somewhere in the 10 hour range, and at $50-$80/hr, you can see how this quickly gets pretty expensive.

 

Ok, Thanks for the good information. I will talk to some shops and see what they tell me.

 

Do you think one of those two cams is bette than the other

 

Camaropunk- I am not at all sure that engine came with a roller cam in it. I know that 87 engines had centerbolt heads and one piece rear main seal blocks which would definitely mean a roller cam IF it was a fuel injected engine, but I'm fairly certain that the carbureted engines still had flat tappet cams installed in them, even though they used the later blocks that could accept a roller cam.

You can check easily, though, to confirm this. Yank a valve cover, back off a rocker arm and pull the pushrod out. If it's 7.8" long then it's got a flat tappet cam. If it's 7.2" long it's got a roller cam. You might also be able to sneak a peek down the pushrod hole and see if there is the lifter vallry "spider" and "dogbones" down by the lifters, which would indicate a roller cam.

Regardless of whether it's currently got a flat tappet or a roller cam the LG4 came with what is referred to around here as the "peanut cam." Pathetically small- probably one of the smallest cams GM ever shoved into a V8. Even a mild performance cam will be a fire-breather compared to what's in your motor now.

I'll add that you can ALWAYS install a flat tappet cam. A flat tappet cam in a roller block is no problem (a roller in a flat tappet block is not doable without spending big bucks, though). Just get a traditional flat-style tappet timing chain, remove the spider, dogbones and roller cam retaining plate and you can install a flat tappet cam in a roller block just like you would on an older non-roller block.

For an inexpensive "give me a better cam than stock for more power" choice this flat tappet cam is hard to beat for only $80 INCLUDING lifters:

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku

It may not look very aggressive but consider this- it's got more than 20* more duration than your "peanut cam" and a bunch more lift. Nothing your ECM and stock carb can't handle, it's still a very mild cam with a stock idle and plenty of vacuum. It's just that your current cam is that tiny. It should make a "holy cow!" kind of difference from the mid RPMs on up in your motor.

 

Thanks for your concern, but 5-7kid has never steered me wrong, also on the summit website when looking at the application chart for this cam it shows it for my vehicle 87 up.

 

never put a new cam in with old stock lifters.. thats a big no no... if you don't want to buy a whole cam kit which will run you about $600 at least do the cam and lifters..

 

Oh, I think you can trust Damon. . .

But...

I've heard several accounts of '87 Monte Carlos not having roller lifters, but the '87 Camaros all seem to have them, EFI or carb. So, best advice would be to check for sure before you order a cam. If it is roller, I'd recommend staying with roller (and you can reuse roller lifters with a new cam). If flat tappet, stay with flat tappet (and get new lifters with it).

 

i have basically the same car as you and i would take five7's advice any day as a matter of fact we are quite fortunate to have him around my LG4 was roller and the cam swap was not even a bit nerve racking when swapping it into my new short block i was able to do it in two hours with a buddy with the engine out and adjusted the rocker arms and then you will have to put the timing cover, water pump, harmonic balancer, intake manifold, valve covers, carb and the radiator back in among other things so you will have to factor in the price of gaskets for the above items and don't you have a mechanical fuel pump which has it's own lobe on the cam that pumps your gas it will require new gaskets as you will have to remove it to get the cam out don't forget about it i did and felt stupid after 10 minutes of why won't the cam come out
but the truth is if you can do your brakes and have a pair of brass ***** you can change your cam but you also have to be able to follow directions well and i suggest taking multiple pictures along the way so that you remember where that hose was routed if you know what mean
word to the wise follow five7's advise all the time and good luck!

 

So which cam id you go with on the lg4? and what short block did u swap it to?

Thanks man, I dont have the means and all of the tools to do that, so I am probally going to have a shop do it.

 

You have an automatic transmission, right? The cams that have been recommended would be fine. Any larger and you'll need more torque converter stall or it will be a dog at low RPMs. Any smaller and it won't be worth it.

 

actually i put the stock cam into a 355 ci which had a flat tapped cam but i have a manual transmission so we would go for different cams as a matter of fact i would appreciate a suggestion from five7 i basically want as much lift as possible with stock rocker arms and heads but i don't really want to deal with any vacuum issues

 

If i was to go to a higher stall eventually, would that effect the cams performance?

 

It's the car's performance, not the cam's performance. You need to match the total package - induction, cam, exhaust, torque converter, gears.

 

I understand that, I just wanted to make sure that if I add the other stuff later on it would match up good with what ive already got because I cant do it all of that at once. I plan on doing gears sometime after I get the cam and then I will do the stall and shift kit.

 

Cam and stall should match and be done together. Gears can come later.

 

If I was to be able to do a stall at the same time as the cam, would you recommend a different cam or still one of the 2? and what stall?

 

The Crane 2031 with about 2000 stall would be a pretty nice combo.

 

Ok, im getting closer to having this done, but some things have been asked and I dont know much about this so seeing what you say....heres what was said/asked.


You'll also needd to make sure that your stock valve springs will handle that lift, and check your pushrod length after installed to make sure you don't need new pushrods.

I'm not sure what lift the stock valve springs hold, but I'd still check before you install anything. Are you going to use stock rockers or switch to higher ratio roller rockers?

 

Your stock springs aren't up to the task. Replace them with what the cam manufacturer recommends.

Your stock rockers should be fine with the lift of the cams I was talking about. What cam are you considering? Something like Comp Magnum rockers would be a good option to both insure you don't have any rocker travel problems, and for better valve control than stock stamped rockers can provide.

 

Ok, guess I better have the springs changed too. I was told a cheap alernative is LT4 valve springs and I was told that They'll handle up to a .525 lift and they're about $50 for a full set....I was thinking the 2031 as of now, still not for sure.

 

How much lift a spring can handle is a function of coil bind. However, that doesn't tell you anything about the RPM capability of a spring, which is how it breaks up harmonics. So, don't just consider lift capability, understand RPM capability as well.

There are people who will tell you not to run factory springs for any reason. However, I'm running LT1/LT4 take-off springs on the 350 (and they were on the heads when they were on the former 305 with flat tappet cam as well). 6000+ RPM is a piece of cake for them. The stock 305 springs floated at 5200 RPMs.

 

I don't mean to knock on the 305 or anything, but I don't understand why you're going to put all this money into. You might as well just install a 350. You could buy a running vortec 350 for pretty cheap, install a cam while it's on the stand (and you continue to drive your car around), and then swap the motor in, which is pretty easy to do.

In fact, there is a guy on my local boards who is selling a 400 small block with vortec heads (this combo makes well over 400 hp). And he's a reputable engine builder. In fact, here's the post:

I'm not trying to be negative, but I just don't understand why you'd spend almost 1k bucks on a cam swap that might get you 50 or 75 horsepower when you could gain 250hp and have superior platform.

I went from a 305 to that same 400 small block and I'd never go back. It's nice to know that no matter what I bolt on to a 400 it will most likely make more power than bolting it on to a 305. Good luck.
-Greg

 

Answered in the very first post:

As I've said many, many times, if you have a sound 305 shortblock, you'll be faster for a given amount of money modifying the 305 vs. installing a 350.

Up to a point, of course. And, I would also agree to do parts that will swap over to a 350, which has been the course of this thread.