I want to change to a torker ii intake on my carburated 85 vette but i need to know if it sits the same heighth as a performer rpm because of hood clearance, anyone know?

 

a torquer-2 intake is an extremely LOW profile manifold, which is one of the main reasons that it is total junk.

The Performer RPM is a much better (understatement) manifold and sits much higher by several inches.

 

I need some clarification on the torker is not as good as the rpm

 

since its low profile its not going to be able to flow as well I believe... plus, it'll heat everything up quicker because everything is closer to the engine... oil heats it up and the fuel ends up being warmer than it would be with the performer

Personally I say go AirGap... not much taller (if at all) than a normal Performer... and it performs loads better

just my opinion

 

Power isnt going to be mainly determined by manifold heat. Along airflow lines torker ii is single plane and should make more upper end power. And my question had nothing to do with which made more power, im interested if it sits lower than the rpm

 

well you wanted clarification on why its not as good as the RPM

if you want lower, go for it

 

this should clear things up I hope.

the torquer-2 is a total POS.
It doesn't make more low or high RPM power than the performer-RPM does.

the only good use for a torquer-2 is maybe a flower planter.

it is an old design made primarily for hood-clearance purposes.. but for your information a stock Chevy Q-jet intake manifold can make much more power than the torquer-2 and also gives good clearance.

 

I keep telling you all and Pablo that the Torquer is a POS. ODB knows what he is talking about.

Let's see. I'll rack my brain and tell you why without beating up Pablo...

umm, let's see... the RPM's are around 4.75" carb height and the TII has around a 4" carb height. Also, I am quite sure that the RPM ports are larger and that a larger port-size gastet is specified/required by Edelbrock because of this. Ie, 1205 FelPro for the RPM and base-sized gasket for the TII. I could be wrong but that is what I remember and see when I look at the manifolds. Either way, noone on this board NEEDS a single plane manifold over the RPM or RPM AirGap manifolds...

The TII has it's place, but IT IS NOT HERE!!!

 

Do you know the manifold height of a victor jr by chance?

 

I think the VJ's are 4.5-4.75 or so and the Super Victors are like an inch more or so. Guessing here but pretty close. Some another inch taller still, for classes not allowing spacers...

VJ's use 1205 FelPro intake gaskets and SV's use 1205 or, preferrably, 1206.

 

I gotta admit I love the look of those tall single-plane manifolds. But god forbid you gotta race someone from a stop sign in a daily driver with a mondo cam...

 

First let me just say that I agree that the TII sucks!! My friend put a TII on his 356 and after he swapped to an RPM intake he was amazed at the power difference!!

As far as the quote above....I love the air gap intake myself but it won't fit under a stock 3rd gen hood!! You would have to get some sort of cowl induction hood if you wanna put an air gap intake in a 3rd gen!



------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
200,000+ miles (speedo/odometer non-funtional! Odometer reads 142,000)
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 383 converted from TPI to Carb, Edelbrock 600CFM Carb, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Hedman Shorty Headers, AFR 195's (if I can afford them), XE268 Cam, Moroso HEI ignition kit with external MSD Blaster II Coil and an MSD 6-AL Box!!
Current project: Keeping my 305 running until I get my income tax returns!

 

yeah... it won't fit under any stock hood unless you have a relatively small air cleaner and wanna cut that heat pad away for added clearance, hehehe

Only reason I'm waiting to get the Air Gap is because I don't have a hood, period... 1983 stock fiberglass on a car that was beaten to hell before I got ahold of her just doesn't last

So I'm waiting on a friend to see if I can't get his SS hood later

 

What heat pad?? LOL! I removed mine a LOOONG time ago!! I just didn't see the point in it being there and it didn't affect how my engine runs!! Still runs a constant "cool" 165 degrees!!

 

err... heat pad thinger is supposed to keep your hood paint in decent condition, not keep the engine cooler, lol (atleast that was what I was lead to believe hehehe)

 

LOL!! Oh well, if that's true it hasn't hurt my car!! I took that stuff off over two years ago and my paint on my hood looks just peachy!

 

To try and answer the original question,
The Torker II has a height of 3.53" according to Edelbrock.
The RPM Performer has a height of 4.00" for the Carb, QJet and Gen I versions.
Just for your info...The Air Gap has a height of 4.20".
All of my info I got from WWW.Edelbrock.com in case anyone wants to know.

 

You got the height numbers wrong for sure. I have been working with Edelbrock manifolds for years and you are waaaaay off...

You must be looking at the lower "taper" measurement at the front of the manifold or something. Ie, the hieght a straightedge would be AT THE FRONT OF THE MANIFOLD if you laid the straightedge flat on the carburetor pad. There is also a REAR number on Edlebrock specs, too, o you must add the two numbers and divide by two...


Have fun

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited March 26, 2001).]

 

Actually you're a bit inaccurate on those numbers!! the 4.20" for the air gap and the 4.00" for the regular RPM are just the front measurements on the intake...which edelbrock calls measurement A!! Measurement B (or the back of the intake)for the Air Gap is 5.25" and the regular RPM is 5.30"!! Then edelbrock so kindly gives you a formula (A + B)/2 = intake height (or carb pad clearance as edelbrock calls it)!! With this formula the Air Gap is 4.725" high and the regular RPM is 4.650" high which calculates out to the Air Gap only being .075" taller!! Less than 1/10 of an inch taller!!

Damn, after looking at those numbers I'm pretty sure I can get an Air Gap to fit under the hood of my car!!

 

The problem I see is that the front of the air cleaner will be much higher than what those numbers show. Compared to the Performer RPM, which just fits, the RPM Airgap carb pad has a slightly lower rear edge and a somewhat taller front edge which will tilt the carb backwards. This will cause the front edge of the air cleaner to raise much more than those numbers show. I suspect that if just a thin paper gasket between the manifold and carb were used and all the underhood lining were removed the Air Gap would fit most third gens with a 14X3 drop base filter.

Let's see if I'm right, I'll draw this up in AutoCAD and see just how much a 14" air filter will rise and then measure my car tonight.

BTW, I couldn't find the specs for the RPM Air Gap Vortec on edelbrocks site, anyone know what the A and B measurements are for that?

------------------
91 RS/3.1 - Stock except stereo system, daily driver.

86 IROC - Pep Boys 350 longblock, Performer 750 carb, Performer RPM intake, Comp Cams 280 magnum, Hooker 1 5/8" shorties, Flowmaster Y pipe, 3" pipe to Flowmaster 2 chamber Dual outlet, TH 350 performance rebuild w/shift kit, Daco 2600 Stall, 3.42 Gear Moser 12 bolt w/Eaton posi.

 

lol, racerwannabe is gonna draw it in AUTOCAD....i'll use paper, ok, here's what i got...The front of the aircleaner will sit about 0.34" higher with the air gap (+ the extra height of the air gap, so 0.42" total)
Obviously the rear will sit 0.34" lower (- the extra height of the air gap, so 0.27" total.)
...ed

 

I have the air gap for vortec heads, but don't have the engine in the car yet, so I don't know if it'll fit. But I just measured it and it's about 3/4" taller than the stock TBI intake, give or take. I'm thinking it may fit under a formula hood with an Edelbrock pro-flo 1000 air cleaner.

 

I was just wondering the same exact thing myself the other day and I emailed Edelbrock to find out! They haven't responded yet....I'll let you know what I find out!!

I don't think Ima go the vortec route anyway because....

1. they only have 1.94/1.50 valves so I'd have to pay for new 2.02/1.60 valves AND the head work to open up the ports!
2. they have press in studs so I'd have to have them machined for screw in studs and install guide plates
3. Last but not least the springs in the vortec heads suck so I'd have to replace them too

All in all, I'd only be spending just slightly more getting the Sportsman II's or Iron Eagle's and they've already got that all done AND the flow numbers are better because both the SII's and the IE's come already pocket ported!

 

Lol!

Actually, my measurements came up at about half that. I have a screenshot, if someone want's to post it I'll email it.

I went out to my car and measured the length of my performer RPM. I then used CAD to layout the carb pads according to Edelbrock's measurements. I drew a 14X3 box and layed it on top of each carb pad and then measured the difference.

The front edge of a 14X3 air cleaner will sit .155" higher on the Air-Gap than on the Performer RPM.

I've got a 1/2" thick gasket under my carb now and it fits under the stock hood that's had the padding removed. With a regular thin paper gasket I'm positive an Air-Gap would fit and I'd probably gain some clearance!


86TpiTransAm,

I was looking at modified vortecs as well. Those heads with the Extreme Energy 268 look like a sweet deal. But I've already got a lot of nice parts and all I really need are the right heads to bring it all together.

If I don't change the cam then I won't pull the engine either. That's a lot less work and I can put the cam money straight into the heads. I need a new intake anyway so that cost won't affect which way I go. I'm going to get the Air-Gap either way. Now I just need to find out which iron head is best for my combination and add up some prices!


------------------
91 RS/3.1 - Stock except stereo system, daily driver.

86 IROC - T-Tops, 350/TH350 w/shift kit, 2600 Stall, 3.42 geared 12 bolt, Performer 750cfm, Performer RPM, Comp Cams 280 magnum, Hooker 1 5/8" shorties, Flowmaster Y pipe, 3" to Flowmaster 2 chamber Dual outlet.

 

Racerwannabe: I finally got those numbers from edelbrock for the RPM Air Gap Vortec intake! It's the same measurements as the non-vortec RPM Air Gap....A = 4.20" and B = 5.25"

Modified vortecs would be nice....I just don't like the flow numbers!! I'm definitely goin' with the XE268 cam in my 383 but I haven't quite decided on the heads yet either!! I think I've got in narrowed down to the Dart Iron Eagle heads or possibly (fingers crossed) the AFR 195's!! Those would be sweet!!



------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
200,000+ miles (speedo/odometer non-funtional! Odometer reads 142,000)
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 383 converted from TPI to Carb, Edelbrock 600CFM Carb, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Hedman Shorty Headers, AFR 195's (if I can afford them), XE268 Cam, Moroso HEI ignition kit with external MSD Blaster II Coil and an MSD 6-AL Box!!
Current project: Keeping my 305 running until I get my income tax returns!

 

Thanks for the measurements on the Air-Gap '86!

As far as the flow numbers on the vortecs, what's it matter? They will produce close to, if not more than, 400 hp with the XE268 and 1.6 rockers on a 350. You should easily hit that with 383. On the other hand, AFR's on a 383 is the real deal but I'd take another look at your cam and carb selection, American Speed has a 475hp 383 using a Comp 280 Magnum (Wanna trade? j/k) and a 750 CFM carb.

Wow, that's the combination I would have only on a 355, maybe the 190cc AFR's would be best for my car after all.

Let me know what you decide!

RW

 

The XE268 cam and the 600cfm carb are only a temporary setup!! This car is my daily driver AND I'm on a slightly limited budget...or else I'd be stickin' with the TPI!! The XE268 doesn't need a stall converter....if I got much bigger than that then I'll need a stall! Of course if I was running a TH350 tranny I would want a stall with the XE268...but I'm running a 700R4 tranny so the stall won't be necessary!! Once I get a different daily driver, I plan to upgrade to a much larger cam and get a stall and a 750cfm carb! Of course, I'm still racking my brain about whether to use the 600cfm or the 750cfm NOW!! I obviously need gas mileage because this is my daily driver and the thing that's confusing me is that 50% of people I talk to say that I'll get better mileage with the 600cfm and the other 50% say that if the 750cfm is properly tuned that I won't lose hardly any mileage at all!! They almost make it sound like I can get the SAME gas mileage with both the 600cfm and 750cfm...but I don't think so!

------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
200,000+ miles (speedo/odometer non-funtional! Odometer reads 142,000)
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 383 converted from TPI to Carb, Edelbrock 600CFM Carb, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Hedman Shorty Headers, AFR 195's (if I can afford them), XE268 Cam, Moroso HEI ignition kit with external MSD Blaster II Coil and an MSD 6-AL Box!!
Current project: Keeping my 305 running until I get my income tax returns!

 

Gotcha. Good plan! AFR's if you can get them! Remember you have to drop the oil pan to change the cam if you don't have a two peice timing cover so you might want to get one.

I'm calling AFR tomorrow and get a price for the 190 or 195 street heads. I'm hoping they will heli-coil the exhaust and the rocker stud holes for me.

Also, here's what I think about the gas mileage thing; Everone's right! You CAN get the same gas mileage with a 750cfm as you can with a 600cfm. But you won't. The 750 requires a lighter foot on the gas when cruising around, and the extra power is fun to play with Besides, I don't know any Camaro owner that can resist planting the gas when the time's right. Lol.

Good luck!

 

Yeah, I already planned on getting the two piece timing cover!!

FYI...the AFR 190 and 195's are the same price!! $1250....that's for the 68cc heads! It's an extra $250 I believe to have them milled to 64cc!! I dunno about the heli coil thing but they're already fully ported!! 100% CNC....'cept the Exhaust, it's 70%-100% CNC ported!! I got their catalog awhile back!! AFR's are impressive enough but when you see the basic package in writing it's even more impressive!

------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
200,000+ miles (speedo/odometer non-funtional! Odometer reads 142,000)
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 383 converted from TPI to Carb, Edelbrock 600CFM Carb, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Hedman Shorty Headers, AFR 195's (if I can afford them), XE268 Cam, Moroso HEI ignition kit with external MSD Blaster II Coil and an MSD 6-AL Box!!
Current project: Keeping my 305 running until I get my income tax returns!

 

Guys, for 1200 bucks or so why don't you get Aluminum Fast Burn GM heads??? NICE stuff.

 

Do the Aluminum Fast Burn GM heads have 100% CNC ported combustion chambers, 100% CNC ported exhaust ports, 70% to 100% CNC ported intake ports, 3-angle valve job, 1.450" OD Hydraulic Valve Springs (120 lbs on seat, .550" max. lift), 10 degree chrome moly retainers, 10 degree valve locks, 3/8" screw in rockers studs, guide plates, valve seals, hardened shims, intake valve seats, exhaust valve seats, and bronze valve guides???? If not, I'll stick with the AFR's!


------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
200,000+ miles (speedo/odometer non-funtional! Odometer reads 142,000)
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 383 converted from TPI to Carb, Edelbrock 600CFM Carb, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Hedman Shorty Headers, AFR 195's (if I can afford them), XE268 Cam, Moroso HEI ignition kit with external MSD Blaster II Coil and an MSD 6-AL Box!!
Current project: Keeping my 305 running until I get my income tax returns!

 

Fast Burns are GREAT heads and I would bet have comparable flow numbers, too. Of course they have good valve springs/valve grinds/hardware/etc. c'mon... The two heads are equipped quite the same, my friend. Not sure about the CNC, but they have some of the most efficient combutsion chambers around. You don't NEED cnc to have good stuff, BTW.

How else could they (FastBurns) make 430hp out of a cam with only 218/228 duration (ZZ430)??? Can your heads do that? I bet not.

EDIT: from SDPC2000 Website:

"Fast Burn" Aluminum Heads Price: $542.50
Part # 12464298
Valve Diameter I/E: 2.000"/1.550"
Chamber CC: 62cc
Intake Port CC: 210cc
Spark Plug Type: Angled
Spark Plug Size: 14mm
Spark Plug Reach: 0.750"
Spark Plug Part #: RC9YC
Valve Spring Diameter: 1.320"
Max. Lift: 1.525"

This all new design head uses the latest technology to make maximum horsepower with flat top pistons. The new technology uses a larger volume port for high flow, yet maintains excellent velocity for tire shredding torque. The tall valve cover rails will accept either center bolt, or perimiter bolt valve covers. Self aligning rocker arms are required. Assembled with light weight LT4 valves and retainers. Price is per head


Nice try to dis these heads, though... GO to the SDPC2000.com website, search on "Fast Burn" and look at the picture yourself. You will change your mind quite reasily. Oh, all GOOD heads come with nice springs, studs, guideplates, hardened seats, good guides and 3-angles...


[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited March 30, 2001).]

 

WHOOPS....
Fastbroker was close...
I got the front number only..not the back...
SORRY...

 

You can't compare a 210cc head to a 195cc head!! That's an unfair comparison!! And FYI, I doubt that the GM fastburn heads flow as well as the AFR's!! What's up with those small valves on the GM fastburn heads?? LMAO! That's funny!! You get a 190 or 195cc GM Fastburn head and compare it to a 195cc AFR and I'm sure you'll see the advantage there...AFR by far!!

 

I didn't see anything wrong with the valve sizes on those heads..
are you saying they are too small or something?

 

Where can I see dyno and flow charts for the Fastburns? Any links?

I've seen some dyno numbers on the AFRs with my 280 cam and they show 400-430 or so.

 

There's nothing wrong with the valve size!! I'm sure the only reason you posted, ODB, is because you're a big lingenfelter fan and those are the valves he uses in his heads!! The "main" point I was making was the unfair comparison between the 195cc heads and the 210cc heads!!

I'm with you racerwannabe....I wanna see the flow numbers for the GM fastburn heads!!



------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
Well over 200,000+ miles (speedo/odometer non-funtional! Odometer reads 142,000)
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 355 TPI, Stock TPI ported, 24#/hr SVO injectors Hedman Shorty Headers, Dart Iron Eagle heads or GM LT4 heads, XE262 Cam ground on a 114 LSA, Moroso Blue Max Plug Wires, external MSD Blaster II Coil and an MSD 6-AL Box!!
Current project: Keeping my 305 running until I get my income tax returns!

 

I'd like to see some flow numbers, too. I have used all the above heads and stand by my Fast Burn recc. Good stuff for the price. Not as good as (iron) Vortecs, for the price though, for less than 400hp, of course...

EDIT: http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Fast...der_Heads.html

Gonna try to copy/paste:

EDIT; didn't work, took it off... Go to the above site

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited April 02, 2001).]

 

Thanks FastBroker! Would you mind posting why you like the fast burns so much? Since you've had AFR's I would be very interested in your oppinion of the two. Thanks again!

 

AFR's are great heads. Honestly, I get a better deal on the FastBurns and I like the name better and being able to go to a dealer to stand in someone's face if I have a problem, that's all. Hard to do that over the phone. I just buy lots of GMPP stuff, that's all, and I give LOTS OF referrals to the guy, which further reduces my costs. Just gave him a 454 motor home engine change, for instance, from too many miles. Like $5000 out the door to the customer. OUCH.

Oh, the AFR's are flowed with 2.02/1.60's and when you put 2.02/1.60's in the FastBurns, they outflow the AFR's, too, I believe. I would say the heads are quite comparable, that's all.

 

Imagine that....the above mentioned web site shows the Fast Burns compared to a lot of heads but NOT the AFR's....how convenient!!

How about this....these are the flow numbers of the AFR 210's as flow tested by GM themselves.....article can be found in the 1998 Chevy High Performance Small-Block Power special section for you skeptics!!

Intake Flow

.200 140
.300 197
.400 240
.500 271
.600 279
.700 284

Exhaust Flow

.200 118
.300 153
.400 183
.500 200
.600 210
.700 218

As you can see, the AFR's outflow the Fast Burns quite well!! Even more so on the Exhaust side!!! Also, just thought I'd mention that I compared the AFR 210's since they're closer to the Fast Burns 215's!!

Also the AFR 195's are a better choice for TPI because with the 195's as opposed to Fast Burns' 215's you'll have more low end torque to put to the ground!!

 

Those ARE good numbers... I stand erected. I mean corrected.

NOt to change the content, but I've been using Vortec heads with pretty good results. Yeah, you gotta change the springs, put in studs and possibly guideplates, but even out of the box, they give real-world power under 350-400hp for CHEAP!!!

 

Not gonna argue there! Vortecs are very well priced!! However, as of right now, GM doesn't make a Vortec head for the TPI intake!! You can have the Vortecs drilled to fit the TPI engines but I've heard too many bad things about doin' that!! And I have TPI so no Vortec for me!!



------------------
1986 Trans AM
305 TPI
Well over 200,000+ miles (speedo/odometer non-funtional! Odometer reads 142,000)
4 Wheel Discs
9 bolt Borg Warner Rear (2.77's....oh joy) :P
Completely Stock
Soon to upgrade to a 355 TPI, Stock TPI ported, 24#/hr SVO injectors, Hedman Shorty Headers, Dart Iron Eagle heads or GM LT4 heads, XE262 Cam ground on a 114 LSA, Moroso Blue Max Plug Wires, external MSD Blaster II Coil and an MSD 6-AL Box!!
Current project: Keeping my 305 running until I get my income tax returns!

 

I'm with ya'. Hopefully they'll get you TPI guys a Vortec intake. Does Edelbrock make one, yet? Must be close.

 

Edelbrock doesn't make one yet either! I've heard that GM is workin' on one but I've been hearin' this for about 4 months now and still nothin'!!