I am putting on an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and Holley 4160 600cfm carb. I know I need to buy a new HEI distributor(doing that tomorrow) but my real question is about the 700-r4 trannie. I heard someone say that some sort of switch needed to be installed to make the trannie shift correctly. What exactly is this and where can I get one? Is this difficult to do? Any help with this is appreciated.


------------------
Jay

black 85 Z28, t-tops, 4bbl carb, flowmaster 80 series muffler w/ custom tips (hollowed out cat), edelbrock chrome air cleaner, Infinity 4" 2 way front speakers and Infinity 3 way 6x9s, Alpine CDA-7863 head unit. many more mods planned (holley carb 4160 and edelbrock performer intake coming very soon)

 

it needs a pressure switch to make the torque converter lock like it's supposed to. Tranny shop.

it also needs a TV cable and bracket for the cable with the proper connection and adjustment. again.. tranny shop.

 

Holley make a TV cable bracket for their carbs part no. 20-95 if i recall correctly.


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Cosmik Debris

 

(in Doctor Evil style)
rriiiiiight...

Your tranny will shift fine w/o any kind of switch. You heard about the torque converter lockup switch, to lockup the tranny. Helps with gas mileage (a wee bit if on freeway), and it'll maybe give you a few mph in the quarter mile. Painless offers a kit for about 130$. I have suggested a 100 dollar cheeper alternative in my "TPI->Carb GM Perf. Parts?" post, but as of now no one has responed. If you can swap a carb, manifold, and distributor, you can install this.

As for the tranny downshift cable linkage, holley offers a bracket for its carbs, PN 80-95, I beleive (or 20-95, something like that). About 20 bucks. Should allow you to use existing cables w/ no mods. (I havent used this personally, but several vette owners have reported it as working great).

As a side note, this is basic info. VERY BASIC. Someone with 45 posts is not expected to know this. An idiot with 1322 posts in 3 months not knowing this is rediculous, and such a person needs to shut the hell up.

 

Let me add one more thing, X5.
4th gear on a lockup 700R4 MUST be in lockup for sustained highway driving or else the tranny WILL burn up after being driven like this for awhile. That happens, and nothing will shift right. It happened to my car shortly before I bought it, and I wound up eating the cost. This also is BASIC knowledge.....
EDIT:and as an opinionated sidenote, I don't think bashing a fellow thirdgenner merely for offering advice on a post is a good way to make good contacts, seeing as you're a newer member.
But what do I know; i've only got about 130-some posts on the clock.

------------------
DR Stevens
1984 Trans Am 305HO L69
sucks gas, hauls ***
1991 Firebird 305 LO3
for days when I need a/c

[This message has been edited by eightTfourTA (edited April 05, 2001).]

 

"I'm still running without one of these {lockup} and have had no problems, but some guys swear you'll torch your tranny w/o one."
J.Charles
This is not basic info, this is desputed. There is no definate answer; this is one of those hit-and-miss things. Some people buy a B&M tranny and it blows up after a week of gentle driving. Others can put it in a top fuel dragster and not break it. There is always someone with a contrary experience, so its difficult to be certain. I have been seeing mostly 'no problems' posts, but thats not going to happen for everyone.

"...bashing a fellow thirdgenner merely for offering advice"
This 'advice' could cost jay a lot of money, time, and hassle. Were he to do this, and later discover the cheeper alternatives, might that not breed some animosity to the board? I would not want a newer member to be turned away by some loudmouths poor information. Hopefully, if checked, said loudmouth will hold his/her tounge in other cases, which is what I'm hoping for.

PS: 1300 posts in 3 months, and this is the reply quality? BAAAD vibe...

PPS: Most people interpret anything written as being said in the least friendly 'interpretation of tone'. I am not agressive or insulting, just just concerned and maybe a bit fed up...

 

ODB is right, you screwball X5!!! You can AND ARE SUPPOSED TO put a pressure switch in the valve body (inside the pan itself) so that the electrical circuit is closed and the converter locks up in 4th (you can put one in to lock in 3rd and 4th, too).

Oh, but someone with less than 10 friggin posts is not supposed to know this.

idiots. SHUT UP YOU!!!


EDIT: It is not a "tranny downshift linkage", as on a TH350. It is a TV (throttle valve) cable which controls the ENTIRE SHIFTING PATTERN (vehicle speed vs engine rpms vs throttle position), not just the downshifts...nimrod. Not enough posts to know that, either, huh.


[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited April 06, 2001).]

 

what the heck you drivin, anyway, 5FingerDiscount?

175hp POS?

 

Did you just not read the other posts, or did you not understand them? I was NOT debating the fuction of the TC lockup kit. And there is no 'you are supposed to.' Some people have problems if they dont use it. Some people run fine w/o it. 'Supposed to,' I dont think so. Its the users choice.

In regards to the number of posts, you will note that I used 'loudmouth' as a somewhat negative word. Flapping your mouth at any opportunity is stupid the way I see it. I have read many thousands of messages, and I only post when I have good information, not just because I like to write messages and sound knowledgable.

The usage of 'strong negative terms' is fine, but lets keep this an intelligent discussion, and not some lame flame war. Are you an aol'er or a real net user? hehe...

Also, I thought the th-350 was vaccum operated? Or was that the th-400?

Insulting a fellow car guys vehicle is just wrong. You really like the cloak of invisibility the net provides, dont you? This is something that just isn't done. I take no offence because you are obviously a few cans short of a sixer.

PS: When this post gets locked (I dont predict you guys keeping this intelligent), feel free to amuse me with your low IQ at x5finger@excite.com

PPS: x is only there because most places dont allow a number to start a user name. 5finger is the name of a fictional character I created for a few stories, and it is in reference to that characters traits, not mine.

------------------
1988 Trans Am GTA
350 TPI

Stock...
By all apperances.

 

If you cannot understand my post, I don't want to take the time to explain it. Should be easy to follow, and will be for follwing posters. You, not sure why you cannot figure it out. Need a pill, perhaps?

You have a fetish with "pee pees" (ie, PPS in all posts), by the way. Be careful...

This is nOT aol.

EDIT: Don't post again and try to distract us from your assinine comments above and your unwillingness to realize that my post is/was/will be correct, and your advice was VERY short sided and uneducated. First car, for you huh? Or is it MOm's? Do you own a wrench? Quick talking and post something correct/technically sound or you will not be listened to. You have not started off too well, bub.

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited April 06, 2001).]

 

My tranny isn't a th-350, it is a 700-r4. I will definately be going with the switch, a friend of mine has a holley on a 200-r4(he has a Monte SS w/ a 350) and he tore that trannie apart from the day he bought it(Why the guy he bought it off of put a 200 behind a 350 is beyond us) But I really don't feel like going out and buying a new trannie just b/c I didn't include a pressure switch with it.
I just didn't know what to call it(I knew about the bracket, from my friend and the fact that I have it already)
Lets not go flaming on each other over the amount of posts we have. I use a bunch of different boards so I can't be posting everywhere. I am not too familiar w/ transmission work and that is why I asked this question. Thanks for the help.

------------------
Jay

black 85 Z28, t-tops, 4bbl carb, flowmaster 80 series muffler w/ custom tips (hollowed out cat), edelbrock chrome air cleaner, Infinity 4" 2 way front speakers and Infinity 3 way 6x9s, Alpine CDA-7863 head unit. many more mods planned (holley carb 4160 and edelbrock performer intake coming very soon)

[This message has been edited by jayman350 (edited April 06, 2001).]

 

Thanks to jay for keeping it relevent to the topic. That is a good user who shouldn't be mislead. (I am partially at fault here...)

FastBroker: I never said your technical information was not correct.
I said everyone has different experiences. How is that short sighted or uneducated?

I have heard that the average mechanic reads at the sixth grade level. I supose you spin lots of wrenches. (I dont mean any offense to mechanics in general)

Credit to whoever has "Dont argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to your level and beat you with experience."

As to technical info, there is a good suggestion and a good question in my TPI->CARB posts. Help out so we can make the EFI to Carb conversion article more complete.

 

I just took a look at your tpi->carb post. Where can I find the info from gm about that part? Do they have a website? I have never gone direct w/ gm on something like this. I usually check summit and jegs before I go anywhere else, unfortunately I am at work right now so I don't have much time to go searching for this stuff.

------------------
Jay

black 85 Z28, t-tops, 4bbl carb, flowmaster 80 series muffler w/ custom tips (hollowed out cat), edelbrock chrome air cleaner, Infinity 4" 2 way front speakers and Infinity 3 way 6x9s, Alpine CDA-7863 head unit. many more mods planned (holley carb 4160 and edelbrock performer intake coming very soon)

 

I copied your post to that thread, and replied there. Some questions on that thread need to be answered.

 

It's not. X5, you have a demeanor to your posts that conveys a sense of arrogance to a reader, starting with your harsh words for ODB. This is how some people respond to an attitude. Same as when a car that looks & sounds like it's had some performance mods pulls up next to you at a light, most people would think "This seems like the kind of person that wants to give it a go".

[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
I have heard that the average mechanic reads at the sixth grade level. I supose you spin lots of wrenches. (I dont mean any offense to mechanics in general)[QUOTE]

X5, what was that you said about keeping the post ON topic? Here we go again with the arrogance.

Good idea, I think i've gone too far already.

Well, you've lost my input, I don't feel like being trashed for making a suggestion, whether it be expensive or not. Have fun.



------------------
DR Stevens
1984 Trans Am 305HO L69
sucks gas, hauls ***
1991 Firebird 305 LO3
for days when I need a/c

 

I will say that I have been driving for a few months without having installed my lock up switch that I bought 3 months ago... granted it is winter AND I keep a very close eye on my tranny temp gauge. The switch will go into the tranny one day soon! I got one from Jegs for like $75. Do a search on the tranny board for this, you'll see a lot of posts about it and some REALLY helpful links about installing it too.

------------------
1984 z28 w/ a 357 cu in. monster engine which is looking like the posterchild for Edelbrock with the exception of the Holley 750vac... all the suspension stuff... 9-bolt posi disk is in...

-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

X5,

I am a stock broker and probably make more money in one month than you will EVER make in one year. And as far as my education goes, I have several Engineering degrees, as well as others. You???

Your condiscendment onto ODB has obviously not gone unnoticed. If you do not even know the difference beetween a TH350 and TH400, I believe that you may be younger than 16 yrs old. When you realize that 700R4's exist, we can continue this conversation.

Until then, I am sorry that you think I am stupid, for my IQ is surely greater than yours.

You still have not contibuted to this board intellectually. Until you seem like you know ANYTHING about vehicles, keep your know-it-all comments to yourself. you haven't helped ANYONE yet, as ar as I can tell. Can you let me know how/where you have helped anyone on this board???

If you continue to harass me/us, I will either race and beat you with my Wrangler, or continue to awake others to your insufficiencies.

If you disregard this post, I will repost and continue your idiocy.

I look forward to your mother letting you use her computer tommorow for you to deal with this. I cannot wait to hear your uninspired and malinformed reason again.

b-bye

 

I don't have the lockup switch on my tranny. Would be nice to get one for the gas milage but thats about it. I converted to carb about ummm 4 months ago and haven't had any problems with the tranny, and trust me I dog my car all the time (ask Jester). I also drove to Atlanta and back 3 weeks. Thats 1400 miles round trip. 9.5 hours none stop driving each way. I would think if the lockup switch was that important then my tranny would have died it just that trip alone.
So do you or don't you need one? I kinda agree with what x5finger said in his first post. "Helps with gas mileage (a wee bit if on freeway), and it'll maybe give you a few mph in the quarter mile."


------------------
'89 IROC, custom 600cfm Holley carb, Street Dominator Intake, Flowtech headers, no cat, Flowmasters, no emissions (smog pump, charcoal fillter etc), remote starter solenoid, push button start, getto sound system, none leaking sunroof

 

Gosh darnit.

You DO NOT NEED TO LOCK THE TC to make the tranny shift. duh... End of story...


If you have a high-stall converter (or OEM) and low gears (like 3.07) and drive around on the highway with that high-stall (or OEM for that matter) converter unlocked you will heat the crap out of the tranny fluid. If the fluid is not cooled down, you will fry the tranny in a matter of days or weeks. duh. The slip ratio will be several hundred rm = hot to death!


If you have never used a TH700, you will not understand this. Five Finger discount is a prime example of not knowing how trannys work AND of not knowing the difference between tranny models. DA.

EDIT:

It'll help more with mileage the more the rpm change between locked and unlocked. It'll help A LOT with low gears (3.07) and a high-stall converter... A LOT. If youhave an OEM stall converter and 3.50+ gears or so, you will, indeed, see only a slight difference.

Use the lock-up. You got it, use it. It cannot hurt you, and that is the major decision.

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited April 06, 2001).]

 

Just for sake of knowing, is there anyone besides me that has had a tranny burn up because of not having lockup? And, did that person have an aux cooler on it or not?
I could see it lasting if you've got a cooler on it, but without that and without the lockup I just don't think it'll do well after about 8-10K miles. I think the real answer to this equation would lie within a tally-up of all the tranny failures of this nature that everyone's experienced. (hey, I'm into mysteries -)


------------------
DR Stevens
1984 Trans Am 305HO L69
sucks gas, hauls ***
1991 Firebird 305 LO3
for days when I need a/c

 

I thought I said you could run unlocked w/out damage. In other words, I guess. As long as you COOL THE FLUID. A tranny fluid cooler would cool the tranny fluid, I guess.

I have not blown a tranny from this because I use AUTO METER tranny temp gages in my dash. If tranny gets hot, for some unforseen reason (ie, towing+140deg outside, tranny fluid above 210degF), shut it down.

 

wow I didn't expect all of this from my short and simple post..

anyway, there is a very good reason why you need to lock the torque converter for driving in overdrive. When you go lower than a one-to-one ratio in the transmission (overdrive) that means the driven side of the TC will be spinning faster than the driveside(engine side). The torque converter is designed to flow fluid in one direction based on the drive side spinning faster than the driven side. In lock-up mode the path of the fluid flow changes and no longer requires the drive side to initiate fluid flow through the converter. In all gears but overdrive the drive side will be spinning faster than the driven side and things will function properly.
If you drive in overdrive with the TC unlocked you will eventually destroy both the torque converter and the transmission given enough time and heat. The people that build these transmissions for a living know this, and I never expected to be explaining this on here because the original question was pretty simple.

Fastbroker is right about the gas mileage. A high stall with highway gears would lose a huge amount of mileage and would not last long at all without the lockup function.

ODB



------------------
*I do custom performance mods on Edlebrock Performer carburetors (dualplane intake mods in the works),
White 1986 Irocz, 305 with iron #416 heads,
383 with aluminum TFS heads,
Edlebrock Performer-RPM intake and Performer #1407 carburetor, +110hp shot of crack, 700R-4 tranny, Vigilante 2400 lockup converter, 3.25:1 Ford 9" rear, Mcreary Road-Stars, SLP-stainless 1.75" shortie headers & Y-pipe, single 3" Borla exhaust, Linginfelter-TPI camshaft part number 74216 pulls 17" vacuum solid. Cam specs 213/219 @.050 114-LSA, sometimes advertised at 216/219 @.050 112-LSA .462/.470 lift @1.5:1 ratio. Using Harland Sharp 1.65:1 roller rockers. MSD-6AL, billet distributor, multi-retard, blaster-3 coil, and RPM switch. SouthSide machine subframe connectors, SSM lift-bars, Moroso 4" underdrive crank pulley.

N/A runs 10.9 @124,
Crack-runs 10.3 @135
haven't run at track since Oct-99
* vizit miy homepayge * http://www.geocities.com/trailerparkpage/

 

As everyone has mentioned, you can burn your trans up without locking up the converter. ODB nailed it with the fluid path when it is not locked up, will allow for high temperatures , resulting in possible major damage.

I have spoken to several GM engineers about this when I worked at a dealer for the past 8 years.

This is the same concept as when there were many problems with the 125 trannys TCC soleniods going bad, and some techs were just disconnecting them, "fixing" the problem.. But GM actually made a bulliten saying the trans can and most likely burn up if it isnt fixed correctly..meaning dont disconnect the TCC switches.

 

Just put a stock 305TBI in it. Everyone knows they are the superior induction system and would solve all the problems everyone has in this post.


------------------
"Powertuned"
83Z28 w/ 434 SBC
589.2 rwhp/648.4 rwtq
best mods? Vericom 2000
Director of Darwin Awards @ www.thirdgen.org

 

Children children..play nice.

The TC lock up has NOTHING to do with how the tranny shifts, all that is needed is the proper TV cable bracket, or to fab up something for the TV cable yourself.
Running without the TC lockup won't burn up anything either. Just ask every auto tranny before the 700R4/200R4 tranny that came without any lockup at all. You will lose some gas mileage, that is about all IMHO. The lockup only occurs in cruise conditions, which in my opinion does not generate enough heat to do any damage. IF you are worried about that, buy the TC lockup kit from Summit or make a switch as explained in the tech article on this site.

I'm locking this, as I'm sure y'all could probably prdict

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"American made baby. 100% American iron. The muscle among the masses. My hero. Yep, you can take your ergonomically designed, space age, computer controlled, 4 door, cup holding map lighted split double wishbone split fold down retractable cargo covered moon roof piece of transportation and keep it. For I have felt the thunder. And I know the difference!"
JSP Motorsports
ICON Motorsports

[This message has been edited by Jester (edited April 07, 2001).]

 

Sorry jester, i should have let you smell my tranny fluid at red's. Even after changing it once it smells burnt pretty good. And it was just rebuilt not that long ago, only the idiots didn't have the TCC harness plugged in (i fixed it.)
W/ 2.73s and a stock tight converter i see a solid 300rpms of slip at highway speed. This makes perfect sense since any converter is gonna be really inefficient around the 2k rpm mark. The result of all this slip was some cooked fluid in an otherwise pristine tranny.
...ed