I have the champion 3 core in my 86 Z28 and it would not stay cool running the a/c in slow speed traffic when the temp got over 100 degrees. I have an LS1 fan set up and it just wouldn't work. It has all the baffles and ductwork. I even tried taping off around the radiator to make sure hot engine compartment air wasn't circling around and causing the problem. I know Beater79TA and the guy who cut apart that radiator and they know what they are talking about.

Also, you don't have to be running your car hard to see problems. I never pushed mine really hard (like on a road course), but daily driving it in Phoenix traffic in July & August, it could not keep up when the A/C was running and the speeds where slow.

I am pretty sure the factory radiator cooled as well, if not better, than the champion one in my car. I only replaced the original because it developed a crack in one of the plastic end caps and I believed I was doing an upgrade.

 

Ahhhaaa. I don't have ac in my Camaro. Perhaps that's why I never get over heated. Does your Camaro have the duct type shroud that pulls air from the grill area?

 

I did not realize that there was an alternative choice, or is there (direct fit)?

 

Sure there are tons of options. To begin with, the OEM setup works quite well. If I were to get an aftermarket radiator it would probably be from Ron Davis.

http://www.rondavisradiators.com/

 

Has anyone figured out if the tranny cooler threads on this radiator are the same as OEM? I thought my fitting went in smoothly last summer but it appears to be leaking trans fluid. It was a pain making sure it was tight with the fan setup still in place scraping against my forearm.

 

Yes. The oem tranny lines should bolt right up to the radiator. From what I read, earlier years didn't fit (I could be wrong though). But last year I bought a cc951 and it bolted right up.

 

Alright, it could have just been me then. I haven't taken my car out this year yet because I left the radiator in not fully hooked up. The thing was an absolute nightmare to get to fit. Way too tall and wide (even with sanding the mounts down to nothing), the oem plastic bracket wouldn't fit, and the OEM fans scraped all over it.

 

Wow. I believe we all had that issue. These radiators are not what they claim to be, direct fit. Lol

 

Not trying to be an *** if I am coming off that way to you, just saying I am dreading getting this setup working!
The fact that its parked in my parents garage doesn't help things either, my old man needed to get to his work bench and started the car and attempted to back it into the driveway. He did this with no coolant in the radiator/top end, and with the MAF & snorkle sitting on the work bench. He was curious why it chugged and stalled after managing to get it to start!

 

My buddy has one that looks just like that, it just trickles out coolant and runs hot as hell, he had to remove the t-stat just to try and make it flow a little better.. I would never buy one of these, quality control just is terrible!

 

Don't take this the wrong way but your assuming that this radiator (cc951) is made in china. Wrong. The number digits in the model number "CC951" is actually the area code of the county in which the radiator is made which is in "Riverside County, CA". How do I know this? I use to work in Lake Elsinore CA. With that said, the manufacturing g plant is just off the lake named Lake Elsinore. They are made in CA, not China. Your friend must of had a china made look a like. Again, no bad intentions.

http://www.championcooling.com/

 

Ya I got the china part wrong...my bad, but it is a champion rad and its a 4 core and the core looks just like the ones in the pics, the coolant trickles down the inside of the rad and will not cool his car, I took my rad cap off and the coolant flows much much better through my stock rad than the one he has. Hes had 3 different styles of fans on there and still will not cool the car, like I said he had to remove the t-stat in order to try to get more flow of coolant, it over heated on a 2 mile drive on a 50 degree night. I know some guys have no issues with these things, I am just telling u my experiance with one..No hard feelings toward anyone at all.

 

4 core? How did he get a 4 core to fit with the tiny upper radiator plastic support? I didn't even know that champion made a 4 row.

 

its in a 81 z28 and I was thinking about the fans that were made in china, not the rad........... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-1988-Ch...851302&vxp=mtr

 

Ahhh. I see.

 

I now have 2 of the Ron Davis units. They aren't cheap but they are extremely well made and manage to cool the motors. Some cautions for Ron Davis:

1. Their direct fit might need to be customized for your application. IE: their stock unit didn't have a bung for a low coolant level sensor.
2. Customizing the radiator adds a $300 CAD fee to the order plus any price adjustments for materials.
3. If they don't have it in stock, expect to wait 2 months to get one if you order directly from them.
4. Pre-delivery customer service is horrible. Not sure about post-delivery as I haven't had any issues with mine to go back to them with. And this is from my experience living 10 minutes from their shop. Based on this I can only have sympathy for any phone or internet orders.

On the upside, if you order one that needs the low coolant level sensor bung, I paid for that CAD update on the last one I ordered so that shouldn't be an upcharge for the next person that needs one.

 

IF you have that kind of issues with Ron Davis, next time get a DeWitts. They build their own cores in the US, their tubes are large size, not the tiny shiat like you see in china cores. They always worked flawless for me. A rad for a 2nd gen Camaro is around 500 from them

 

I mainly use Ron Davis because I want the unit customized and modified vs just a stock replacement. With them being local to me it's not that difficult to drive over and go over exactly what I want, review the drawings, and inspect it when they complete the unit. It's just annoying having to wait to get it. Especially this time when they told me 4 - 6 weeks when I placed the order and then missed that by 3 weeks after telling me 3 times that it would be ready and then calling back to say "not quite yet" the day before I expected to pick it up.

For a stock replacement that didn't need any modifications, I'd probably order a Be Cool off of Summit. A friend is running one and it works really well. But for this application it would have left me sorting out how to rig the low coolant sensor or bypass it as it doesn't have the bung either.

 

do you have a link to the dewitt radiator ?

 

Dewitts is www.dewitts.com They show replacement radiators for 1st, 2nd, and 5th gen Camaro's on their website. But nothing for 3rd or 4th gens. I don't doubt they could make one but it will likely be more than $500 if they have to design and build something they've never done before.

 

Agreed on the OEM, I had to cap the heater port for a Vintage Air unit. The factory end caps were plastic and could not be plugged. What I am not happy about is that this is a sticky literally called "bolt in radiator" like this radiator was a gift from God. Quite the opposite is true, it was sent from El Diablo to molest my core support. I think that a sticky (new) titled "aluminum radiator options" would be a better benefit for the community.

 

Decided to wait on a custom fan & top bracket setup just to get the car rolling with the new radiator.

Since the radiator is so much wider, the fans when mounted on the stock bracket scrape into the radiator itself.

Slipped a nut onto each mounting point to make it stick back.
Here is a few pics:




This easy method gives the fans enough room to spin without smacking into the fins. As for the top mounting bracket, only 3 of the 4 bolt holes allign...even with the rubber stops sanded on the bottom & the top. It's snug...but will eventually need some sort of revision.

 

Took my chances and bought a 3 row all aluminum ebay radiator to replace my eight year old one row stock spec radiator. I have run it for a few sessions of city driving on 90* days, no cooling problems to speak of.

 

I am Very pleased with my Champion 3 core and dual fans.

My Firebird has overheated since the day it was new. When the factory warranty was still good, pontiac dealer(s) fixed it several times, but I could never tell any difference. Any time spent idling was always time spent watching the temp gauge.
Anytime driving under 20 mph, the temp would slowly creep to 220 and the fan would kick on, slowing the climp, but the temp would still slowly creep higher and higher. The only thing for me to do was shut it down, or find a highway to gets some air flow.
I tried dual fans. They helped, in that it just took longer to get too hot.

So, I got a Champion 3 core.

The install was pretty easy, much easier than I was expecting after reading the crying and pouting about how hard it was on this forum. I used 1/8th inch rubber padding under the radiator after removing the thicker padding. Other than that, it fit right in, only a little more snug then the factory one. Simple. Actually, took no longer to put in than it would have to put the old one back in.

I don't understand all the complaints about how it fits. Other than the rubber pieces, it really just fell into place. The hoses slid right on, the tranny lines screwed right in and tightened just as they should have, no leaks, no rattles no problems.

Now the temp will not go above 220. I let it sit for an hour, in the Arkansas heat (106 that day), on black asphalt, no wind. Takes a loooooong time to get to fan on temp. When the fans do kick on, you can see the guage needle move down. Takes less than 20 seconds for the temp to get below 200. Then, about 5 minutes for it to kick the fans back on.

Awesome!
For the first time since I bought my Bird, I drove it around town without worring about the temps. It is so nice.
I would recommend this radiator to anyone.

 

Maybe its just me but I have a modified 700R and like to drive the car like I stole it every once in a while. Cruising around town, no leaks. Drop it into 1 and squeak the tires and trans fluid shoots all over the place.

 

That is a problem with the fan turn on temperatures, not the radiator. So your new champion won't go above 220. I'm not sure that is something to be proud of. My cheapo autozone rad won't go over 180 (thermostat temperature) with intelligent fan turn on temps. Again, this is any time, including 30min floggings at the track. Change your fan turn on temps, and you static temp should go way down.

 

easy fix. Get a tranny cooler kit.

http://www.andysautosport.com/chevro...s/flex-a-lite/

 

Nope.

But for your defense, I forgot to include that I used a 200 degree switch when I first got dual fans.
So, using Stock radiator, dual fans, 180 thermostat, and 200 switch, the Temps continued slow creep to red on gauge. So, I tried 160 stat, and turned the fans on at 180, same problem. Simply could not cool with factory radiator unless I was running at least 40 mph, and there are not fans that will fit and give you the same air flow as driving 40 mph.

Now, using Champion rad, 180 thermostat, dual fans, and stock fan switch, and relays, the temp never goes above the temp of the switch. I could use a 190 and the temp would never go above that, or a 180 switch, and so on.

Now I am sure I could have got the cheap autozone rad like you did, and I am sure that it would have worked. But this thread is about the Champion 3 core. I got one, and it fit, and it worked. Plus, it cost just a little more than the autozone radiator, and I did not have to step foot into a autozone store and listen to some idiot who is looking at a computer screen ask me if my car has makeup lamps on the passenger side sunvisor.

 

I just bought a Champion 3 row and installed it last week. I agree with the previous poster in that it was cake to install. I don't know how much closer to bolt in you could get for a bigger radiator such as this. You just pull out the 4 rubber mounts and replace them with some strips of rubber. I also installed a Dorman Taurus replacement fan. So far, so good. HUGE difference in temps!!

 

I have one installed already

 

Just installed one. I needed to modify the rubber bushings and trim the shroud a little but otherwise it fit.

A lot of guys having overheating problems with these might want to make sure they don't have any air in the system. I mean, I do realize that every single member here is in fact a rocket scientist, race car builder, professional driver, and part time magician... but I can't tell you how many times I've seen seasoned mechanics spend all day troubleshooting an overheating problem after a radiator swap simply because the system was airbound.

-- Joe

 

A lot of guys (such as myself) never said the champion was the reason for overheating, it was the SOLUTION to stop it.
The fitment was the issue, not the result with cooling.

 

Right, some guys did complain about the fitment. It is not direct fit. It required a good 15 minutes to get it to "fit", which required trimming. That is expected with almost all aftermarket stuff in the performance category.

But a bunch of folks complained that their cars ran hot after swapping to it, which is absurd.

The one thing I will point out, is the bung for the level sensor is silly. I'm not sure if I want to just find a level sensor that fits it, or tap it for a plug.

-- Joe

 

I left my level sensor in. I don't think my 86 has a such a warning system of the coolant level.

 

Iirc, the first batch of these from the factory had a production flaw that pinch the ends of the tubes smaller. The vender said that they would replace any defective units. The old stock should have been replaced by now and in theory, the cooling issues should be put to rest.

 

Yes. All that they require is a picture down the neck to verify the pinched lines. After that, email the picture along with a copy of the sale and the vendor will have Champion (in Lake Elsinore, CA) drop ship a new radiator. Then you reuse the box and ship it back using the form that is sent to your email. That's what I did.

 

And the shipping is ALL FREE.

 

I am so glad I stumbled across this thread... I will be utilizing this rad with my upcomming build.

I do have 1 question... I currently have a clutch fan on 305. I will more than likely be replacing it with an electric fan. Is there any recommended fan(s) to use for 300ish HP motor?

 

I wouldn't buy a fan that mounts with nylon straps through the radiator. In time, the nylon can rub against a tube/line and great a hole. Your best option would be to get a stock fan shroud housing from a IROC. Preferably a double fan. You can find a double fan from the 350 iroc's. 305 iroc's had a single fan.

 

For my IROC using a stock radiator, I spend a hour with a piece of sheet metal from Home Depot building an actual shroud and mounted a pair of 12 inch Maradyne fans. Rigged the fans to run off separate relays directly connected to the battery and wired them to turn on at key on. The car made it through a Phoenix summer with 0 issues related to heat.

 

An update on the Ron Davis unit I had built for the car.

We took the car to the SCCA Nationals the first week of September in Lincoln NE. On Wednesday when we were doing practice runs it was 100 degrees out. The car sat idling between runs for the entire 1 hour session without getting over 180. It held the same temperature during the competition runs on Thursday and Friday.

The next competition was a week later in Phoenix where the car maintained temp again in 100+ degree temps.

The most recent event was a 3 day at El Toro in Irvine CA. The 100+ mile cruise on Friday with the AC running saw the car maintain 190 at idle and drop to 170 on the road. Saturday and Sunday saw the car getting flogged on a 1.8 mile road course, an autox, and a speed stop. It held 180 all day while we burned through multiple tanks of gas and both sets of tires.

The unit cost substantially more than the Champion it replaced but the performance has been undeniably better and worth every penny of the extra cost.

 

Just bought a "universal" 2 core off of ebay. Looks exactly like the stock firebird rad besides from being all aluminum and not having an internal trans cooler (which is actually what I preferred). I got two 12in electric flush mount fans coming and I also have a external trans cooler to mount in the front. I will post pics of it all as soon as it arrives!

 

Your in the wrong thread man. Start another thread outside of this one. This is the 3 core Champion radiator thread. It's against the policy to "HiJack" a thread. That is what you are doing. My apologies if I you take it the wrong way.

 

I didnt mean to "Hijack" anyones thread. This thread is on a bolt in aluminum radiator.

The subtle difference between two core and three core was already pointed out earlier. I was just simply stating that I bought what should be a "bolt in" aluminum rad for much cheaper than most just because it wasnt labeled as a firebird or camaro radiator; although it is layed out exactly the same; cradle mounts and all.

 

I have to laugh at people saying they "trimmed" the rubber pieces that sit underneath and on top of this radiator. I cut just about all of the bottom pieces off. There was just barely enough to clear the metal frame bits that stick up under the radiator.

On top, the half moon rubber pieces were cut to be pretty much straight horizontal. And even then, I had to lean backwards while pulling back and down on the upper radiator plastic cover piece in order for my friend to line up the holes and screw the bolts back in.

So it does fit. But boy is it close.

I just noticed that mine didn't come with the small piece that Justin89Formy's has. The hole that is open that you don't use between the transmission openings. So we clamped on a short hose with a metal plug on the end of it. Clamped that down. This annoys me because we had to go to the parts store to buy about 2 inches of heater hose just to make that piece.

I didn't hook up the transmission lines since my external transmission cooler runs bypassed anyways. So I can't comment on the threads.

 

The level sender location? I bought a level sender for about $14 at autozone. I have enough spare wires on my harness and inputs on the ECM that I can turn it into a malf. Monitoring coolant level isn't a bad thing. # is SU1307 or Standard # FLS1 for the sensor.

I removed the rubber and mounted it in the frame, and cut the shroud a little. It's not direct fit, but for the money, it's a good deal.

I also cut about an inch off the inlet at the top as my coolant hose was touching the pulley on the supercharger.


-- Joe

 

I've posted in this thread a few times about an overheating issue - problem solved.

I originally had the 3 core radiator (good), fan shroud (very good), and the dual electric fans that came with it (complete and utter crap).

I replaced them and installed an LS1 fan/shroud setup and everything works perfectly good now. I can idle my car as long as I want and can make it down the street without it overheating.

I had to angle the radiator a big to clearance the steering box and fans but so far no issue. It would have been easier to use the shroud for the radiator with quality AFTERMARKET fans but I already had the LS1 setup.

 

I just noticed that my A/C compressor has eaten a bit out of the plastic intake tubing (between the MAF and air filter).

I don't know if it's because I have a SuperRam, and thus the throttle body is a tiny bit forward compared to a TPI setup. But I never had the hose that close to the compressor until after the new radiator went in.

This radiator appears to be the absolute maximum that will fit my car.