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Has anybody done this conversion to their A/C system? I did it on my 87 RS and all I did was add the new fittings and evac and charge the system with R134a. It worked but the compressor was bad so I changed it and recharged it with R134a again. It worked good and the fan came on with the A/C. Has anybody done this differently?
Has anybody done this conversion to their A/C system? I did it on my 87 RS and all I did was add the new fittings and evac and charge the system with R134a. It worked but the compressor was bad so I changed it and recharged it with R134a again. It worked good and the fan came on with the A/C. Has anybody done this differently?
the original compressor worked fine it just started leaking from everywhere. That was when I recharged it with R-12. I decided to convert to R-134a because I could get that refrigerant cheaper. It's been a long time since I did that so I was wondering what others have done. Everybody I had talked to seemed to make such a big deal of it, I thought it wasn't a big deal at all.
When I learned about doing the conversion I was told that the 134A will make a weak compressor quit sooner due to higher pressures. The hoses will usaully work fine but if you get new hoses make sure they are designed for 134A. It is a smaller molecule and can leak through regular hoses. With older hoses they have absorbed some oil etc. so they do not leak. I was also told it was a good idea to replace the expansion valve. I do not know personally about the hoses but do know that a proper expansion valve could give a couple of degrees colder air.
Well I finished my retrofit yesterday. New compressor, added the fittings, evac and recharged the system and now I got ice cold A/C. 45 degrees sitting in my shop at 100* ambient temp with no air flow across the condenser.
As long as you got the proper amount of oil added to the compressor if it wasn't already added then you should be good as long as there no leaks anywhere. (Should have shown up on evac.) Most new compressors are built to handle 134a now so that should not be an issue.
I have found that going down the road 45 degrees is still not as cold as possible but usually cold enough. Yes I read you said sitting and not moving.
As long as you got the proper amount of oil added to the compressor if it wasn't already added then you should be good as long as there no leaks anywhere. (Should have shown up on evac.) Most new compressors are built to handle 134a now so that should not be an issue.
I have found that going down the road 45 degrees is still not as cold as possible but usually cold enough. Yes I read you said sitting and not moving.
I agree I've seen some systems run at 32* and freeze the evaporator. In AZ when its over 100* and inside the car its 50* thats good enough.
Anything under 32 degrees on that evap and youll freeze it up and will flood the Comp. And keep in mind if a coil is 32 degrees youll never get the air to be 32 degrees. So if the coil is 32, depending on the Evap, you air coming out of the coil will be 42-44 degrees. If you freeze it up your gonna have a whole bunch of issues exspecially since R134 is not a good Ref for temps that low. You always have to keep in mind that a Evap. is engineered for a certain TD(temp difference) accross the coil.
There is no drop in for R12 or any other ref, without doing work to the system. The Temp/Pressure relationship is so much different. And since they havent made any Virgin R12 since Dec 1995(you probley never find it)
So just use the conversion packages they make and make sure you charge it as its said to and install the proper seals and oil(mineral oil is not what R134 likes to mix with). Esteroils such as POE is for HCFC Refrigerents such as R134. Too much R134 and youll be overcharged and have crappy superheat(thats so the comp doesnt get flooded, and eventually break it) Too little Ref and you have no subcooling and thats just starving the evap. Fixed oriface systems are critically charged so weigh it in, and hope that the cheep guage or scale they sell is some what accutate.
Not sure how many ppl have R22 in there home AC units but be aware that the price of that stuff is skyrocketing right now as its production was cut in half this year. And by 2020 it will be out of production. This ticks me off as a lbs of R22 went from 20-25 bucks to almost 50 bucks. So when you pay a tech to fix it and they say it cost 75 bucks to add REF youll know why.
I just saw this post and figured Id add a little info about MVAC and HVAC in general. Sorry if its not really helpful. Its not every day I see a post on here about what I actually do for a job.
Last edited by fasteddi; Apr 11, 2012 at 08:14 PM.
Anything under 32 degrees on that evap and youll freeze it up and will flood the Comp. And keep in mind if a coil is 32 degrees youll never get the air to be 32 degrees. So if the coil is 32, depending on the Evap, you air coming out of the coil will be 42-44 degrees. If you freeze it up your gonna have a whole bunch of issues exspecially since R134 is not a good Ref for temps that low. You always have to keep in mind that a Evap. is engineered for a certain TD(temp difference) accross the coil.
There is no drop in for R12 or any other ref, without doing work to the system. The Temp/Pressure relationship is so much different. And since they havent made any Virgin R12 since Dec 1995(you probley never find it)
So just use the conversion packages they make and make sure you charge it as its said to and install the proper seals and oil(mineral oil is not what R134 likes to mix with). Esteroils such as POE is for HCFC Refrigerents such as R134. Too much R134 and youll be overcharged and have crappy superheat(thats so the comp doesnt get flooded, and eventually break it) Too little Ref and you have no subcooling and thats just starving the evap. Fixed oriface systems are critically charged so weigh it in, and hope that the cheep guage or scale they sell is some what accutate.
Not sure how many ppl have R22 in there home AC units but be aware that the price of that stuff is skyrocketing right now as its production was cut in half this year. And by 2020 it will be out of production. This ticks me off as a lbs of R22 went from 20-25 bucks to almost 50 bucks. So when you pay a tech to fix it and they say it cost 75 bucks to add REF youll know why.
I just saw this post and figured Id add a little info about MVAC and HVAC in general. Sorry if its not really helpful. Its not every day I see a post on here about what I actually do for a job.
The system cycles when the pressure drops to low, so it is not a problem to get the evaporator cooler than 32*F. When the compressor cycles off the temperature will rise above 32*F and melt the ice out of the evaporator. I have seen the air temperature in my Ram get down to 29*F discharge air before the temperature probe in the evaporator cycles the compressor. The liquid line from the orifice to the evaporator and the suction line from the accumulator both get a light layer of frost on them. The second the compressor cycles off, the frost dissapears. HC is a drop-in for R12 if someone feels the need to go that path. Honestly with the efficiency increase over R134a it is worth it to me.
On the 97 Express running R134a, I can get a sub freezing vent temp when the compressor is cycled on, but the low side has to pull down to about 22 psi, which it can down on the interstate with good airflow over the condensor. The only downside is even with an upgraded engine cooling fan, fan clutch, sealed gap between the radiator and condensor, at idle it will only pull down to 50 psi with dual evaporators. That is good for ~60*F vent temps in 105*F weather.
However that being said, with HC refrigerant, the high side pressure stays about the same as with R134a, but the cooling capacity at idle nearly doubles. I only have to pull down to 40 psi to get discharge air in the 28*F range. At idle with the same 50 psi, I get 40*F discharge temps. The pulldown is also roughly 2x as quick. You cannot even put it in reverse, back out of the driveway before the a/c is blowing ice cold.
Anything under 32 degrees on that evap and youll freeze it up and will flood the Comp. And keep in mind if a coil is 32 degrees youll never get the air to be 32 degrees. So if the coil is 32, depending on the Evap, you air coming out of the coil will be 42-44 degrees. If you freeze it up your gonna have a whole bunch of issues exspecially since R134 is not a good Ref for temps that low.
Not sure how many ppl have R22 in there home AC units but be aware that the price of that stuff is skyrocketing right now as its production was cut in half this year. And by 2020 it will be out of production. This ticks me off as a lbs of R22 went from 20-25 bucks to almost 50 bucks. So when you pay a tech to fix it and they say it cost 75 bucks to add REF youll know why.
I just saw this post and figured Id add a little info about MVAC and HVAC in general. Sorry if its not really helpful. Its not every day I see a post on here about what I actually do for a job.
You'd think the evap would freeze up, but it doesn't. The cycling that our R4 compressors does at stock low pressure cut off points (26 psi) keeps any ice build up to a minimum. And when it cycles off, it won't come back on until 46 psi. And the ice will be long gone by the time it gets to 46 psi.
My car cycles off at 30° duct temps. Evap is running around 20° at that point. I've driven from Houston to Austin and back (2 hours each way) and no problems with reduced air flow/freezing. The only thing that freezes is me!
I'm actually running 55% R-22 in my car. Gives it a wicked boost of performance. Yet it matches the pressure/temp of R-12 for the most part due to the other 45% of R-142b and R-600a. I do get colder temps at any given psi compared to R-12 though. Works great with the same mineral oil that R-12 used as well.
Originally Posted by Fast355
The system cycles when the pressure drops to low, so it is not a problem to get the evaporator cooler than 32*F. When the compressor cycles off the temperature will rise above 32*F and melt the ice out of the evaporator. I have seen the air temperature in my Ram get down to 29*F discharge air before the temperature probe in the evaporator cycles the compressor. The liquid line from the orifice to the evaporator and the suction line from the accumulator both get a light layer of frost on them. The second the compressor cycles off, the frost dissapears. HC is a drop-in for R12 if someone feels the need to go that path. Honestly with the efficiency increase over R134a it is worth it to me.
On the 97 Express running R134a, I can get a sub freezing vent temp when the compressor is cycled on, but the low side has to pull down to about 22 psi, which it can down on the interstate with good airflow over the condensor. The only downside is even with an upgraded engine cooling fan, fan clutch, sealed gap between the radiator and condensor, at idle it will only pull down to 50 psi with dual evaporators. That is good for ~60*F vent temps in 105*F weather.
However that being said, with HC refrigerant, the high side pressure stays about the same as with R134a, but the cooling capacity at idle nearly doubles. I only have to pull down to 40 psi to get discharge air in the 28*F range. At idle with the same 50 psi, I get 40*F discharge temps. The pulldown is also roughly 2x as quick. You cannot even put it in reverse, back out of the driveway before the a/c is blowing ice cold.
The temp/pressure during the initial pull down really is amazing isn't it? At startup on a hot day, the refrigerant will be ambient temp. Around 100 psi. Yet by the time it's only gone down to 90 psi, it's giving the same cooling that R-134a would be at 70 psi. So you get a fast blast of cold air right away. And it gets colder faster than R-134a at the same time, since R-134a is an inefficient and high pressure refrigerant.
Fast355 and I get about 1.5-2 degree temp drops per second upon turning on the A/C. And that's in the summer time. By the time you've had the A/C on for 10 seconds, you've already dropped the air temps by 15-20°F.
I was just looking at an old post of mine from the summertime. Houston TX, 102°F, 37% humidity, 76°F dew points. And I was getting 34° blowing out the ducts driving in the city. Arizona gets the high temperatures, but doesn't have to deal with the humid weather that Texas has. (Humid air is harder to shed heat from the condenser to the ambient surrounding air. Just as the human body has a harder time shedding heat to the ambient in humid weather compared to dry climates)
Originally Posted by Dilys95
You will buying another compressor very soon.
Hate to say it. But it's true. Mineral oil and R-134a is a bad combo. And even if you flushed the old mineral oil out, you still run into R-134a reacting nasty with the chlorine left behind in the hoses. (Extremely hard to flush out chlorine deposits)
There is no Drop in Replacement for R12 period. If you just take out the old R12 and put R134a in you will have problems eventually. Its a "drop in" if you put in POE oil and change out the fittings as the temp/pressure relationship is different. If you want I'll link up the info on it. But mineral oil does not mix with R134a and eventually your compressor will go bad from the oil not returning back to the comp. And hope that your evap doesnt get oil logged as if that happends, you might as well throw it away.
Ill just add this though that I tell everyone. If you would braze in lineset and not sweep nitrogen you will have a burn out eventually which is a PITA to fix. Its the same with the POE(ester oils) not being dumped into the R134a system. Im not sure if the 134a kits they sell have the oil already mixed in the REF so its not virgin anymore but I guarentte in 5 years of abuse your comp will die.
Really you should be able to get 80% of the old mineral oil out of the system before doing the conversion to R134a and POE oil to match. But People get away without doing this but its not what I would ever reccomend.
Im not a specialist at MVAC but in Hvac/R is is a huge no no to mix any Ref with a oil that is not ment to be with it. Weather it be R22, R123, R134a or any R12 that is left.
CFC=Mineral oil period
HFC=Mineral oil or AB
HCFC=POE or ester based oils
As for the evap TD, amazing that those comps run like they do with evap temps so low. MVAC isnt my main thing, does anyone know what the compressor actually is?? A recep, scroll, screw?? I would Think it is a recip comp.
Im also woundering what blend you have in your car Rick Flem? Whats the blend called?? Its amazing anymore that every REF is a blend of mixed Ref's. And how bad some of the temp glides are. I work with Ref MP39 all the time and that is a picky ref to charge and evacuate due to its glide. This is what I had in my camaro back in the day when I didnt know what I was doing, It worked though for 4 years till I had a burn out on the compressor from not sweeping the lines when I brazed them. A acid burnout is a mess, and I actually had rigid copper lineset all throughout my camaros A/C system...
On the 97 Express running R134a, I can get a sub freezing vent temp when the compressor is cycled on, but the low side has to pull down to about 22 psi, which it can down on the interstate with good airflow over the condensor. The only downside is even with an upgraded engine cooling fan, fan clutch, sealed gap between the radiator and condensor, at idle it will only pull down to 50 psi with dual evaporators. That is good for ~60*F vent temps in 105*F weather.
However that being said, with HC refrigerant, the high side pressure stays about the same as with R134a, but the cooling capacity at idle nearly doubles. I only have to pull down to 40 psi to get discharge air in the 28*F range. At idle with the same 50 psi, I get 40*F discharge temps. The pulldown is also roughly 2x as quick. You cannot even put it in reverse, back out of the driveway before the a/c is blowing ice cold.
You relize 22psi is 24 degrees temp, thats is cold man. My car had a modded MP39 ref system and was putting out 45 degree discharge air and it cooled fast. Although it was over sized 600btu(1/2 ton which was way big for a car) I even rigged up a nice TXV so my set up was way far from what the factory made but it worked well for awhile.
Its not the temp that is what cools the car as fast as the removal of the latent heat. The bigger TD you have the more moisture that you will get rid of. Im curious to see what your subcooling and superheat numbers are along with the pressures of the High side/low side, and your discharge wet bulb temp. The slower the evap fan is the more moisture you will remove making it feel colder then it really is.
The reason I say add fittings and such for the increase in pressure is because:
a normal day 90*plus heat of compression=120* R12 has 158psig R134a has 171psig.
On a extreme day the 158* R12 x 1.30= 205 head 171* R134ax1.30=223psig. So there is a good difference in head pressure and if your condenser is a little dirty look to see those #' go much higher and the larger the difference past the balance point the greater the difference in pressures. God forbid you get a leak and dont know it, and that comp will be toast really fast from the REf not cooling it as it should, your discharge temps will be so hot! No subcooling and mass superheat.
Just my 2 cents..
Last edited by fasteddi; Apr 14, 2012 at 08:04 AM.
409A is a drop in for an r12 system. We use it everyday at work on old r12 bulk tanks, tractors, cars. You can add it even if you still have freon in the system. Works good.
i had a bad compressor and the system was disconnected and open. I installed a new compressor, accumulator and orifice and replaced one hose.......no problems 14 months and going strong in FL
R12 is a superior product. I don't know why anyone would ever switch to 134a. You can still buy it at Pep Boys for about $50 per can. You need a licence to buy it. You can take a test online to get your license online.
This information was true a couple of years ago, but I doubt if it has changed.
R12 is a superior product. I don't know why anyone would ever switch to 134a. You can still buy it at Pep Boys for about $50 per can. You need a licence to buy it. You can take a test online to get your license online.
This information was true a couple of years ago, but I doubt if it has changed.
I have a EPA universal licence, and they havent produced R12 since December 1995. Look it up! R12 is great but cost alot IMO.
If its under a 20lbs jug tank, you dont need a EPA licence. That why they sell Ref at auto zone or walmart
This crap is a rip I think as R12 is great but wow 50 bucks for less then a lbs http://www.ebay.com/itm/Johnsens-Fre...eeb496&vxp=mtr. And Freeze 12 is not real R12 since it has no CFC's in it but is practical for a fill up on cool juice.
Heres some info on Freeze 12:
What is the EPA status of Freeze 12 ? Freeze 12 is EPA acceptable subject to use conditions for mobile vehicle air conditioning.
Are Freeze 12 and Freezone the same? The two are similar in formulation, but are two different products. TCC only markets Freeze 12.
Is Freeze 12 military approved or approved by TARDAC or MEEP? No, it is not.
How much will Freeze 12 cost? It will be priced less than R-12 was in 1995.
What is involved in a retrofit to Freeze 12 ? The law requires that the existing refrigerant in the system be evacuated and unique fittings and a label be installed with any replacement refrigerant. Also, if the A/C system being converted is equipped with a High Pressure Relief Valve, a High Pressure Cutout Switch must be installed in accordance with EPA SNAP regulations. Use of Freeze 12 does not require that the lubricant or other components be changed.
What are the requirements for recovery equipment with Freeze 12 ? The EPA requires that recovery of Freeze 12 must be done with a dedicated recovery unit. TCC offers a competitively priced unit for this purpose.
If Freeze 12 is recovered out of a system what should be done with it? TCC has a return cylinder program for the recovered material to be sent back to us.
What is the warranty of a new compressor using Freeze 12 ? At this time some evaluations are taking place which will determine the warranty situation of a new compressor using Freeze 12. Currently there are no new compressor warranty endorsements for Freeze 12. We expect this to change as there were no new compressor warranties in the beginning for R-134a retrofits and now most compressor manufacturers offer them.
Why should I retrofit an R-12 system with Freeze 12 instead of R-134a?
1. Freeze 12 will cool better than R- 134a in most retrofit applications.
2. Freeze has a pressure curve which is close to R-12 while R-134a operates at significantly higher pressures than R- 12.
3. Freeze 12 works with the existing mineral oil and does not require lubricant replacement as R-134a does.
Why should I buy Freeze 12 instead of one of the other alternatives?
1. Freeze 12 will be competitively priced compared to the competition.
2. Freeze 12 has been thoroughly tested and shown to be an effective replacement for R- 12.
3. Freeze 12 is expected to have excellent distribution nationwide to insure that it is available for the consumers car wherever they may need service.
4. TCC has been in the refrigerant business for over 30 years with the expertise
and knowledge to provide this product to the marketplace.
Can I use Freeze 12 in non-automotive applications?
Because of the license agreement on this patented product, TCC can only sell it for automotive use. TCC is Technical Chemical Co. and is the manufacturer of Johnsen Products/Freeze 12
Last edited by fasteddi; Apr 14, 2012 at 03:47 PM.
You can get a license online for $20. You can buy R12 on ebay, or at Pep boys (I have heard that o-reilys sells it too) for about $50.
R12 is a superior product to 134a. If I had the money I would pay/bribe someone to convert my truck to it. Oklahoma is as hot as the Devils underwear.
Why would you buy a licence if you dont need it just go to autozone, walmart, or sams club. Under 20lbs requires NO licence(unless its the real deal CFC's"R12). Just buy the Freeze 12 and call it a day, since that requires NO licence
Why would you buy a licence if you dont need it just go to autozone, walmart, or sams club. Under 20lbs requires NO licence(unless its the real deal CFC's"R12). Just buy the Freeze 12 and call it a day, since that requires NO licence
Just set set up your system to run 410a then youll be nice and cold...
Why would I spend the money? Why would I get the license? Because its worth it! The measure of an air conditioner is .... you know the answer?... how cold it can get. R12 is a superior product to R134a or Freeze 12. I understand that its cost prohibitive, I get it. That said, if you can afford it, i would never ever switch over to anything else.
I know man, you said it 3 times now. Ill nicely leave this thread.
I love R12 too but anymore its just outdated, there is alot of REF's out there I can think of about 50 of them off the top of my head. Gotta love blends. R12 was the best Ref along with R123 and others I totally agree on that. And I was giving you props for getting a card for 20 bucks. I had to pay 100 bucks for a EPA test and thank god I passed it because if I didn't I was out 100 bucks. But its a universal licence so I can work on class 1,2,3 and Buy/Sell all REF's except for ammonia and old school refs that are in big boy stuff.
Didnt mean to make you upset or anything man, just taking, thats all.
no love lost man. I thought you were trying to convince me otherwise.
No I agree with ya 100% on the R12, I think them outlawing R12 was dumb and there are alot of other chemicals that are far worst for the enviroment that are still out there and legal. R12 is the best there will ever be for Refs.
Its not the temp that is what cools the car as fast as the removal of the latent (humidity) heat. The bigger TD you have the more moisture that you will get rid of. Im curious to see what your subcooling and superheat numbers are along with the pressures of the High side/low side, and your discharge wet bulb temp. The slower the evap fan is the more moisture you will remove making it feel colder then it really is.
This is the key to comfort in muggy Houston. We get dew points that stay in the mid 70's all summer long. Even approaching 80 from time to time. Something that's blowing 45-50F out the ducts will cool a car, but it won't really be comfortable because most of that cold air is going to dehumidifying the air instead of cooling the air. That's why once you cross into the 30's, a whole new world of comfort occurs. (Dehumidifying is HUGE at this level, hence the lake of water coming out of my evaporator) Getting into the low 30's, the air starts to feel stiff coming out the ducts.
Originally Posted by fasteddi
CFC=Mineral oil period
HFC=Mineral oil or AB
HCFC=POE or ester based oils
I'm also wondering what blend you have in your car Rick Flem? Whats the blend called?? Its amazing anymore that every REF is a blend of mixed Ref's. And how bad some of the temp glides are.
I think you got those oils above mixed up.
HCFC = Mineral or AB
HFC = PAG or POE....R-134a is an HFC.
I'm running R-406a. It was developed back in the early 1990's. Runs in mineral oil. Returns the oil through the system very well. It's a combination of the below.
55% R-22
41% R-142b
4% R-600a
Boiling point is -28F. Better than R12 (-21F) or R134a (-15F).
The R-22 is what gives it the performance. (R-22 boils at -44F) Can't run straight R-22 though, as the pressures would blow up your system. The R-142b brings the temp/pressure back to R-12 levels, albeit slightly better than R-12. The R-600a helps with oil circulation.
I've been running this for 5 years now. The only thing out there that can give it a run for cooling would be the higher strength HC blends that Fast355 runs.
My car cycles off at 26 psi at 30°F duct temps. Evap runs about 10F colder than that.
1) They call it freeze.
2) They call it 12
3) People think Freeze 12 = colder version of R-12.
In actuality, Freeze 12 is 80% R-134a and 20% R-142b......R-142b is a warmer refrigerant than R-134a. Freeze 12 has absolutely nothing in common with R-12. They say you don't need to change the oil in it (leave the old mineral oil from R-12 days in there). This is barely truthful. Because yes, the R-142b runs in mineral, but R-134a does not. And the R-134a is 80% of the product after all.
Digging through their webpage, you'll find them saying that improved performance will come from changing to POE oil.
well I don't know about all that, but in '94 when Ca banned the use of R-12 in automotive applications the only solution was R-134a. I worked for a Saturn dealer at the time and I had to be certified to handle R-134a and be certified on using the equipment and retrofitting older vehicles. R-12 had been phased out and could not buy it through auto parts stores. So from '94 thru '07 living in Ca and retrofitting vehicles with R-134a I saw NO problems with the change over, really only complaints were it didn't cool off as fast. I did the retrofit on my own '92 saturn before I did the retrofit on my '87 RS with no issues. Now that I live in AZ it was never a thought of using R-12. You can still get R-12 for vehicles but its like $50/lb!!!! I get R-134a for free...its a no brainer.
I think you got those oils above mixed up.
HCFC = Mineral or AB
HFC = PAG or POE....R-134a is an HFC.
Sorry Im wrong and got them messed up
HCFC=mineral or AkyB
HFC=polyester oils/PAG
CFC=mineral
You ever get that POE oil on ya??? Man will that stuff suck the moisture out of ya, hands will be dry in a minuet! I guess thats why they sell it in metal cans and not plastic jugs.
HCFC=mineral or AkyB
HFC=polyester oils/PAG
CFC=mineral
You ever get that POE oil on ya??? Man will that stuff suck the moisture out of ya, hands will be dry in a minuet! I guess thats why they sell it in metal cans and not plastic jugs.
For awhile, there was an issue with even non opened plastic jugs of PAG having extremely high moisture rates just from sitting.
Originally Posted by 92RS4US
well I don't know about all that, but in '94 when Ca banned the use of R-12 in automotive applications the only solution was R-134a. I worked for a Saturn dealer at the time and I had to be certified to handle R-134a and be certified on using the equipment and retrofitting older vehicles. R-12 had been phased out and could not buy it through auto parts stores. So from '94 thru '07 living in Ca and retrofitting vehicles with R-134a I saw NO problems with the change over, really only complaints were it didn't cool off as fast. I did the retrofit on my own '92 saturn before I did the retrofit on my '87 RS with no issues. Now that I live in AZ it was never a thought of using R-12. You can still get R-12 for vehicles but its like $50/lb!!!! I get R-134a for free...its a no brainer.
How much did the Saturn dealer charge to convert back then?
What kind of duct temps do you get in AZ with R-134a?
Last edited by Reid Fleming; Apr 23, 2012 at 08:29 PM.
Reviving an really old thread but this information for future problems with refrigerant might be relevant cause more people might have issues today with the system due to its even older now.
R437a is 100% compatible as a replacement of R12 and it is fully compatbile with the oil used in R12 systems. R437a is used when restoring / repairing old R12 systems in cars.
R437a is also a replacement for old R22 refrigerant.
I bought this and a 25 lb tank, took it all apart , had it blasted and powder coated. All new hoses too. Found a Qt of GM R12 oil , I have my own personal hole in the ozone layer lol
hunt a tank down in Europe. It’s everywhere.
if yiu buy in in another country, do yiu have to get Z papers for it Ya?
You will buying another compressor very soon. 
Just buy the Freeze 12 and call it a day, since that requires NO licence
